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Author Topic: B&O Power (Suggestions)  (Read 36017 times)
J3a-614

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« on: April 06, 2010, 08:38:16 PM »

While we have been having fun with a little old Varney Dockside, the prototype was actually a special-purpose engine used in only one city in its original form.  At the same time, the Baltimore & Ohio is a popular prototype, and was once one of the 4 or 5 most notable railroads in the country (and was, with the Reading, the Pennsylvania, and an unnamed Short Line, one of the four roads on the Monopoly game board).

There have been models available of some B&O inspired protoypes, but most either were freelanced to a certain extent for mass market purposes (Mantua/Tyco's 4-6-2 is based on the P-7c), or were later known for mechanism problems and/or ancient tooling (Rivarossi's S-1 2-10-2, Athearn's USRA 2-8-2 and 4-6-2).  This suggests the question--what would be some appropriate engines for somebody to make that might sell well enough to justify the tooling costs?  These are my ideas--what would be yours?

2-8-2--Q-3 and Q-4, both with either 63 or 64 inch drivers and similar general overall proportions.  The Q-3 is the USRA light 2-8-2, of which B&O had 100, including the first one, No. 4500, now in the B&O Museum at Baltimore.  The Q-4 looked considerably different, but was essentially similar, the differences largely being a B&O cab, somewhat different domes, a B&O version of a Vanderbilt tank, and Baker valve gear.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s4530goa.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s4538.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo4586s.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo4400s.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo4437sa.jpg

4-6-2--Three principle classes come to mind--P-5 (USRA original), P-6 (B&O modified copy, with many of the same detail changes exhibited by the Q-4), and the famous P-7 President series (apparently inspired by the Pennsy's K4s).  The principle differences between the P-7 and the K-4 were a radial stay (conventional) firebox and 250 vs. 205 psi boiler pressure.  Even the valve gear looked the same.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo5220sa.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo5222s.jpg

Note that this engine had its valve gear changed--and note the tender, too:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo5241s.jpg

P-6:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s5236.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo5239s.jpg

P-7:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s5300.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s5302.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo5305sa.jpg

A steamlined variant in action, and also the now-preserved 5300:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbCFdocYkiA

The B&O was also a big user of 2-10-2s, called Big Sixes because they were big and because they were numbered in the 6000 series.  Most numerous and best of these were the S-1s and S-1as.  These engines had 64-inch drivers and Baker valve gear, suggesting a USRA heavy 2-10-2 mechanism could be a good starting point:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s6107.jpg

http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00002525

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo6179s.jpg

2-8-8-0--70 engines, in classes EL-1, 2, 3, and 5, very much the standard B&O heavy articulated.  If someone were to be modeling Rowlesburg's helper station in the glory days, he would need at least a dozen of these beasts (and this is the reason I would nominate this one-road engine).  The photos below represent most of the engnes, most of which were converted to simple operation in the 1920s from their original compound configuration:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s7127.jpg

Both front and rear engines of this EL-5 have Baker gear, but the valve gear frames are different:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo7151sa.jpg

Walscharts gear on both engines, but check out the three-truck tender!  That is one item I would not expect anybody to offer.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo7109s.jpg

The glory of mountain main line steam:

http://www.nelsonartworks.net/art_print_2.html

Assigned to helper service at Martinsburg, W.Va.; check out the roundhouse and shop buildings from 1866 that are still there!

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo7141s.jpg

This is one that stayed a compound (note different cylinder sizes between front and rear engines); also notice that the engine has two types of valve gear, Walscharts on the rear engine, and Baker on the front engine:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo7123s.jpg

Finally, simply because it's a favorite and a modern steam classic, the EM-1 2-8-8-4, with 64-inch drivers (same as a reversed engine of the same wheel arrangement, a Southern Pacific 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward):

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo7601sa.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo7610s.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s7628.jpg

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo7622sa.jpg

Did I leave out any favorites from the B&O that you think would sell?

General photo roster links for reference:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/bo_steam1.html

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/bo.html

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/

« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 07:35:28 AM by J3a-614 » Logged
pdlethbridge
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2010, 09:09:35 PM »

how a bout one of their chunky moguls, Chicago terminal type.
http://photoswest.org/photos/00002376/00002439.jpg
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ryeguyisme

Heavy Mountain Steam


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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2010, 09:13:48 PM »

how a bout one of their chunky moguls, Chicago terminal type.
http://photoswest.org/photos/00002376/00002439.jpg


I like the look of that one, I could deffinitely go for a chunky smaller steam locomotive
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pdlethbridge
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2010, 09:19:46 PM »

and this one
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo905s.jpg
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J3a-614

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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 10:05:01 PM »

Ah yes, the Chicago Terminal 2-6-0's--more like a very fat 0-6-0, with the main rod going to the rear driver.  A special engine for switching and transfer work.

Chicago Terminal actually ended B&O steam operations some time after B&O proper did, with 0-8-0s that also handled passenger trains from the station in Chicago to the service yard there.  I seem to recall the date may have been as late as 1960.  Can anyone confirm this?
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J3a-614

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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 10:30:30 PM »

Just for fun, had to include this video link; the tape this is from (and I own a copy) has original live sound, and a big chunk of the tape is on my C&O, including several Alleghenies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI99Dvpxo2w&NR=1

Have fun.
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jonathan


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« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2010, 07:17:22 AM »

As a recent fan of the B&O, I'm excited at the prospect of finding as much B&O equipment as possible.  There's seems to be a number of medium to small steam engines offered by a few manufacturers.  I am looking for something a bit larger to top off my collection. 

I hope I use the term correctly:  drag freight?  I want a big B&O steamer that can pull like crazy.  It seems the market has chosen to offer up big steamers in C&O (Chessie) markings.  They are wonderful, just one letter off.  I know the B&O had big 6's, like you have mentioned.  One of those would be perfect.   Double-heading my Connies is nice, but a behemoth engine would be even nicer.

I have begun focusing on the transition era, so early diesels are always a big hit for me, too--sometimes hard to find.  I often wonder why there is so little equipment for the B&O when they were America's first railroad, and dominated the scene for so many years.  Don't get me wrong; I have a few of the Chessie engines, and they look good along side my B&O equipment.   Call me a purest.

I've rambled enough.  I love your idea.  Can't get enough B&O.

Regards,

Jonathan
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J3a-614

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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2010, 07:39:19 AM »

Until someone decides B&O power is worth making, there is this somewhat pricey alternative--but even then, he's cheaper than most brass engines. . .

http://eddystonelocomotives.com/

This hobby shop in Laurel, Md. also handles brass engines, some of which are not that expensive;the firm is also a major distributor for Bachmann:

http://www.peachcreekshops.com/

Hope this helps.
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pdlethbridge
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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2010, 10:03:51 AM »

AHM a number of years ago sold a B&O 2-8-8-0. Is that what you wanted? They were used as a pusher at places like M&K junction. It was a slow, pull the paint off the wall sort of engine.
http://www.wvrail.railfan.net/mk.html
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 10:08:13 AM by pdlethbridge » Logged
Johnson Bar Jeff

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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2010, 11:27:18 AM »

To go in the other direction of engine size, how about a properly scaled, Spectrum-quality "William Mason" 4-4-0, and a "engine formerly known as the 'Thatcher Perkins'" ten-wheeler?
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ebtnut

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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2010, 01:36:38 PM »

I don't have the research at hand, but IIRC the AHM "B&O" articulated was just the Y-6b without the trailing truck.  Close, but not really a B&O EL. 

There are a few "cross-overs" that might engender some interest.  The B&O E-24 Connies were twins with the PRR H-6's.  Same with the A-2 4-4-2's and Pennsy E-3's.  There are of course a number of versions of the USRA light Pacifics and Mikes around.  They do need some redetailing to match B&O practice. 

The real issue today is this - the modeling fraternity that is interested in steam is shrinking.  There was a time when a manufacturer could make a model of a specific "big" road loco and have a good market.  If you did SP, ATSF, NYC, B&O, PRR, you'd be OK.  Today, I think Bachmann and the like are trying to spread out their investment in tooling as far as possible, so they are looking at USRA types (and similar copies), maybe some specific popular big road prototypes (PRR K-4, for instance).  Or they may look at a lesser-known prototype that can be somewhat generic (i.e., "close enough") and be lettered for a number of roads with maybe just some changes in headlights and valve gear.  My thoughts right now are that Bachmann may be looking at either a light Mike or Pacific, but maybe not a USRA design for future release. 
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jonathan


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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2010, 05:23:24 PM »

I see ebay is offering a Rivarossi 2-10-2 and a Mallet.  They both look nice.  I haven't joined the ebay shoppers of the world.  Still make me nervous... If I saw 'em at a train show, I'd snap 'em up in a heartbeat.

Jonathan
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Doneldon

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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2010, 11:30:38 PM »

Yes, the B&O was the first American railroad and it was a major player in its region for many years, but it had some big competitors nearby - NYC, Pennsy, N&W to name but a few - glamorous railroads in the wide open spaces (AT&SF, UP, SP, GN, DRGW, NP, Burlington, and many colorful local or regional pikes which all offered competition for the railhound's interest.  Hence, the B&O today only has followers in proportion to its size in the grander scheme of things, not a whole lot.  However, you will find big B&O equipment with some regularity on ebay.  Check especially for brass models.

I note sadly that only one of the railroads I mentioned is still in service, the UP.  The N&W, now NS, almost counts as a survivor.  I never thought I'd be saying it, but than God for the UP.
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ebtbob


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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2010, 08:32:58 AM »

Jonathan,

     Beware the Rivarossi 2-10-2.   I never saw one that ran well and they were VERY noisy.   They were not great pullers and unless you can get one with the extra flanged driver for the middle driver set,  the blind driver looks ridiculous because of the over sized flanges on the other driver sets.
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Bob Rule, Jr.
Hatboro, Pa
In God We Trust
Not so much in Congress
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jonathan


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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2010, 10:22:53 AM »

Great tip... thanks!

Anyone ever run the mallet?  If it's got big flanges, my code 83 track won't like it.

Regards,

Jonathan
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