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Author Topic: Williams 773.  (Read 7695 times)
AG

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« on: June 14, 2010, 08:58:38 AM »

Hi Guys,
 I am new here, but maybe some can recognize me from others forums.
I bought my first 773 Williams engine, wonderful engine. My only concern is how can I reduce the speed start. The diagram show and voltage board, is this for the motor?
thanks a lot
Andre.
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Joe Satnik


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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2010, 10:01:47 AM »

Dear Andre,

The trick to slow down Williams and WBB twin-motored diesels is to wire the two DC motors in series instead of parallel. 

I have to think though, that there is only one DC motor in the 773. 

One brute force way to reduce the voltage to the motor would be to wire 6 amp diode pairs in series with it.  Each pair would drop 0.6 volts or so.  (->l-) = diode.  Vertical bar in the symbol is the stripe end of the diode.  Direction of stripe is important.   
 

Board + motor output -------------------------------------l---->l--(repeat..)--l-----------------l
                                                                                 l                           l                      (+)
                                                                                 l----l<--(repeat..)--l                    motor
                                                                                                                                    (-)
Board - motor output---------------------------------------------------------------------------l

You would have to be careful to electrically insulate the diode leads to avoid touching anything metal inside the loco. 

There are other solutions, and I welcome others to post them. 

I would need board schematics to suggest any board mods to reduce the motor voltage.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely

Joe Satnik
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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
phillyreading

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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2010, 03:41:32 PM »

I have been told that the Lionel CW-80 transformer starts closer to zero volts than any other transformer, so I would try that first before I mess with the circuit boards. You mess with the circuit boards in any way and that instantly kills your warrenty!
Another thing might be to use an older Lionel single train transformer that has less than 50 watts.

Lee F.
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AG

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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2010, 06:01:44 PM »

Thanks guys for the input!
I am using an old ZW.
My first idea was connect the motor to the red bulb or the smoke unit.
what do you think?
Andre.
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DominicMazoch

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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2010, 11:23:50 PM »

Using TMCC in conventional, and setting the PM for each engine (stall setting) will make W/WBB run like a craw.  Also, the TPC 3/400 will do the same thing.
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Joe Satnik


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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2010, 11:13:47 AM »

Dear All,

It's possible this is the same loco:

http://www.trains.com/ctt/default.aspx?c=a&id=318

A quote from Bob Keller's CTT May 1999 review:

"Although we were able to run the engine at slower speeds, the lowest average speed for our test loop was a tad on the high side at 50.2 scale mph. The high speed was a rocketing 160 scale mph, which should come in handy trying to make up time on the schedule because you were stuck behind that coal train."

A bit fast, I'd say.  2.7 lb tractive effort, though !!! 

I suppose the pulsing supplies trick the reversing board into thinking it still has power, yet send as little power to the motor as possible...   

Hope this helps. 

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik
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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
phillyreading

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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2010, 04:24:03 PM »

Thanks guys for the input!
I am using an old ZW.
My first idea was connect the motor to the red bulb or the smoke unit.
what do you think?
Andre.

Andre,

If that is a nearly new engine try a smaller transformer before doing anything to the wiring in that engine! A Lionel ZW is too much power for that kind of Williams engine without a super long(25 to 32) consist of freight cars.

Lee F.
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3rail
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2010, 10:13:29 PM »

Philly,

A more powerful transformer does not make a train run faster.  It just supplies power.  More powerful transformers just allow you to run multiple units and lighted passenger trains without overloading.

AG if you want to try another transformer find one that has a lower starting voltage.  You can try the other throttles on the ZW too, maybe one starts at a lower voltage.

Regards,

3rail

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AG

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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2010, 11:35:57 PM »

Thanks guys for the advise.
So far I am working improving the appearance.
here some pictures:
valve gears:

 new pilot wheels (now are black)

AG
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Joe Satnik


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« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2010, 06:09:44 PM »

Dear All,

I found a list of voltages for old post-war (and perhaps some pre-war) Lionel transformers.

Source: Lionel post-war repair manual (not always 100% accurate).

Some transformers could be obsolete or in dangerous condition.

Those with variable voltages starting less than 5 volts:

Tansformer ID, Voltage range, Lettered posts used:

AX, 0-5V, D-U

KW, 0-14V, C-A, C-B

RX, 4-10V, C-U

RX, 6-0V, D-U

1032, 0-11V, B-U

1033, 0-11V, B-U

1233, 0-11V, B-U

1032M, 0-11V, B-U

1034, 4-14V, B-U

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik
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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
phillyreading

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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2010, 04:02:17 PM »

Philly,

A more powerful transformer does not make a train run faster.  It just supplies power.  More powerful transformers just allow you to run multiple units and lighted passenger trains without overloading.

AG if you want to try another transformer find one that has a lower starting voltage.  You can try the other throttles on the ZW too, maybe one starts at a lower voltage.

Regards,

3rail



3rail,

What I suggested was to use a CW-80 in my first reply to this post, because I was told on CTT forum that it has a super low starting voltage, almost at zero.
A lionel post war ZW starts at the same voltage(about 6 volts) for all four outputs, and has NO accessory output. The p.w. ZW will make most Williams engines start at a very rapid pace! I have about 10 Williams engines to play with and several differant Lionel transformers.
The smaller watt Lionel transformers have worked well for the GP-9's to cure the starting up like a rocket on rails.

Lee F.
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Ron Sims

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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2010, 08:59:08 PM »

I like to use the Z-1000 transformer. It will allow slow start ups and supply 100 watts of power to boot.
Ron
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r0gruth

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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2012, 10:11:56 PM »

I agree that various transformers can affect starting speeds but many of us probably do not want to change transformers when we change locos.Amethod that can change the starting voltage would seem to be the only satisfactory solution.The use of TMCC and its components should be one that might work best.It was mentioned above.
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Roger
M1FredQ

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« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2012, 11:51:37 PM »

On the CW-80 can you run 2 lines on it??
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671

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« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2012, 12:47:01 PM »

Hi All,
       671 here. I have used the style of voltage reduction that Joe Satnik has eluded to. ( Hi Joe)
       I found an excellent diagram on the Dallee Electronics web site. Go to "Product Instructions & Technical Index" second from the bottom of that list is "Motor Diode Drop Circuit". This diagram shows one bridge rectifier along with one rectifier diode wired into the motor power wire.
       I used this exact method with one additional rectifier diode. All of my Williams By Bachmann Steamers...773, 2056, 671 and my Berkshire are wired this way. I have 275 watt ZW running my main loop. These locos start and stop smoothly, smoke well, my passenger cars have better lighting, whistle more consistant due to the fact that now the electric motor is receiving approx three less volts than it did with the original wiring so my track voltage is higher to achieve the same speed
       In conclusion... They run better and perform smoother than ever before. The smoke units perform better too. They now consistently receive full 7.9 volts. I have been using Crest smoke fluid. (Trainland $5 per bottle) Cheaper per ounce than LGB but work as well. Smooth smoke ejection, no pop-pop-pop splash, like other brands.
                             Hope this helps...671
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