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Author Topic: Power Compatibility  (Read 7364 times)
stubbsO

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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2011, 11:43:09 AM »

Dear stubbsO,

The diodes or diode bridges (with + shorted to -) added in series with the DC can motors are used to reduce

the high starting voltages of the old conventional transformers. 

The Lionel "Z" transformer has a starting voltage of 6 volts.

The "ZW" has a starting voltage of 8 volts.

Big difference.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik   
That means absolutly nothing. Have you tried what I'm talking about? I doubt not by your reply!
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Joe Satnik


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« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2011, 01:37:32 PM »

Stubbs,

You didn't give much detail in your May 12 single sentence. 

Did I guess correctly that you have an old Lionel "Z" (not an old Lionel ZW or a competitor's) transformer?

You said,  "I use a "Z" at 60%", which sounds like a throttle setting. 

Care to elaborate?

Joe Satnik

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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
Simbo1

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« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2011, 08:58:16 AM »

Joe,

First, thanks for turning me on to a great site - jcstudiosinc.com.
I installed four diode pairs in my WBB J steamer.  They tamed it a bit but it still runs too fast.  Power is supplied by a 180W Brick ->MTH DCS TIU (which has a starting voltage of around 5V running in conventional).  I'm getting around 50smph at 8V.  I'd like to get that down.  I'm going to try the diode bridges.  It looks like you can get more voltage drop with fewer diode bridges-4 diode pairs reduce voltage by 2.4V and 4 diode bridges reduce voltage by 4.8V.  Do I have that right?  How are they on real estate?  Do they take up a more space than the diode pairs?  (I can always install them in the tender).  How about heat?  THANKS! 
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stubbsO

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« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2011, 12:45:37 PM »

Stubbs,

You didn't give much detail in your May 12 single sentence. 

Did I guess correctly that you have an old Lionel "Z" (not an old Lionel ZW or a competitor's) transformer?

You said,  "I use a "Z" at 60%", which sounds like a throttle setting. 

Care to elaborate?

Joe Satnik



Yes, You read correctly. Turn it down to about half and with a cab1, it works just like wiring in series.
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Joe Satnik


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« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2011, 09:07:39 PM »

Dear All,

We are arguing apples and oranges here. 

To clear up some of the confusion,   

Stubbs hasn't mentioned that his setup uses a Lionel TMCC system. 

Previous WBB threads here have already mentioned satisfactory (slower start up) single motor operation using the Lionel TMCC system in conventional mode.

My work has been to reduce the start up speed of the conventional controlled single DC motor Williams steam engines

while still being able to use the old conventional Lionel AC transformers with high starting voltages.

Hope this helps. 

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 11:58:38 PM by Joe Satnik » Logged

If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
Joe Satnik


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« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2011, 12:20:02 AM »

Simbo1,

Thanks for the kind words. 

Diodes give 0.6V reduction per (back-to-back) pair,

or 1.2V per bridge, though it can be tapped off the +- short for only a 0.6 V drop. 

Dioded pairs or bridges can be in either or both wires leading to the motor. 

Bridges are easier because they can be mounted to the frame, and there isn't as much heat-shrink tubing needed.

Avoid jumping to the tender and back if you can help it.

Hope this helps. 

Sincerely,
 
Joe Satnik 
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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
stubbsO

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« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2011, 04:15:35 AM »

Dear All,

We are arguing apples and oranges here. 

Stubbs hasn't mentioned that his setup uses a Lionel TMCC system. 


My work has been to reduce the start up speed of the conventional controlled single DC motor Williams steam engines

while still being able to use the old conventional Lionel AC transformers with high starting voltages.

Hope this helps. 

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

Joe- Sorry to have to rain on your parade but, Why would I post something that doesn't apply when people are talking about using TMCC if I werern't doing the same? You need to think outside the box sometimes! Your always posting on these subjects, you should know better. Why else would I post that I have the power set at 50-60% if I wasn't using some kind of remote control? Seems like it be kinda hard to change locos otherwise if I continually kept the power there all the time would'nt you think? Just amuse me and take a untinkered with, out of the box loco, single or 2 motor and if your using a ZW, put the throttle at the 12 O'clock position or less, and use your cab1 or whatever and tell me your results and what you think. I have even done this with a KW, albeit that there less volts to begin with you'll get the same results. A LW probabaly wouldn't even need any throttle down for the same results. I think you'll see that you don't need to waste time and money on diodes and soldering to get the results you want with this simple easy method. JMHO
I did post this on page 2 but the discussion died with no bodies follow up, so maybe they did what I said and never followed up.back in Jan http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,15710.15.html
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GTBob

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« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2011, 10:31:33 AM »

Now, now, now boys.  Lets all take a deep breath and relax. Smiley

GTBob
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"If a man does his best, what else is there!"--General George S. Patton Jr.
Joe Satnik


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« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2011, 02:40:49 PM »

Stubbs,

I think I might have it figured out:

You believe that I hijacked this thread, so you are being (less than cordial) about it.

OK, have it back:

What pieces (and their costs) make up a TMCC system like yours?

Thanks.

Joe Satnik
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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
stubbsO

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« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2011, 05:24:13 PM »

I'm not tring to hijack anything! And I'm not going to bother wasting my time on this subject with you! Read what I've said and the orginal post!
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