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| | |-+  5 amp booster and Dynamis with Pro Box
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Author Topic: 5 amp booster and Dynamis with Pro Box  (Read 17433 times)
rbryce1

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« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2012, 12:57:25 PM »

OK, I agree, but this is a very mute point.  No one has still answered the 50 million dollar question,  how do you wire it?  I would simply like to know how do you wire the Dynamis Base Station to the Pro Box to the Booster to the main track and maintain the programming track ability.

Again, page 23 of the Bachmann Dynamis manual states this can be done. 

Does ANYONE including Bachmann know how to do it Huh? Huh? Huh?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 01:31:18 PM by rbryce1 » Logged
captain1313

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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2012, 06:25:23 PM »

Well, after all this discussion I decided to try to wire the booster in.  Eliminated the program track wiring for now. As soon as I hit the stop button on the dynamis to power the track up the red overload light comes on the booster and the headlights on the locos flash.  Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh??

Kevin
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rbryce1

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« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2012, 07:06:19 PM »

What do you suggest next?  Hope Kevin didn't fry his loco.
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captain1313

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« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2012, 08:18:26 PM »

Hunt

I have.  If I removes the booster everything works fine.  No Shorts.

Kevin
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NarrowMinded


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« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2012, 08:23:20 PM »

I don't have a booster can someone post a link to the booster instructions?

I think I have a very simple solution but I need the booster instructions to see if I am missing something...

Is the root of the problem that the booster comes with audio style jacks so you think you have to use the plug on the Dynamis and not the sccrew connectors on the probox?


NM-Jeff
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crspada

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« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2012, 08:16:56 PM »

Just trying to add my first attachment  This is the power setup I was thinking of.  Will it work or can I only go directly to a booster with the power Buss from the Pro Box.  If the file reference does not work, I will try again another day.

http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8426/7819357890_9819683422_m.jpg
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rbryce1

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« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2012, 11:25:47 PM »

Here is an attempt at a possible schematic block diagram of the connections as I try and vision it.  I don't know if it is correct, but maybe it is a start.  If any of you much more in the technical know agree or disagree with this, please share your facts with us (please don't guess).

I am showing two diagrams, one in normal power operation and the other in programming track operation.  Both have the 5 amp booster wired in as others have indicated it should be wired in.

In my drawing, I show the Base station with the two circuits, main and programming.  The main feeds both the jack and lug terminals as well as the multi-pin connector to the Pro box.  The programming circuitry only goes to the jack and the lug terminals.  Relay operated switches inside the Base Unit control where and when power is directed to these locations.  

In normal operation, the 2 internal switches, one going to the jack and lug and the second going to the multi pin connector are both energized while the power from the programming circuit is cut off by the open switch.  Power from the jack and lug go to the programming track to give it 2.3 amps of power while the output from the Pro Box would normally go to the main line to give it 2.3 amps of power, but in this case it is going to the booster which outputs 5.0 amps to the main line.  If the booster is receiving 2.3 amps of power, it is trying to increase this by 5.0 additional amps to produce 8.3 amps.  However, since the internal wiring inside the booster is only rated for 5.0 amps, a current limiter in the booster regulates it's output to only allow 5.0 amps to leave the booster, no matter what the actual output could be.

This method of output regulation could also explain why the same booster increases the 1.0 amp E-Z DCC Controller to 5.0 amps as well.  It is trying to make 6.0 amps but being again internally regulated to only 5.0 amps max.



The next drawing is the same equipment only in the programming track mode of operation.



In programming track mode of operation, the 2 internal switches, one going to the jack and lug and the second going to the multi-pin connector are now both open which causes the main tracks to be de-energized while the power from the programming circuit is energized by it's switch closing.  Power from the jack and lug go to the programming track provides it with around .25 amps of power while the output from the Pro Box, which would normally go to the main line to give it 2.3 amps of power is de-energized.   The booster which outputs 5.0 amps to the main line is also de-energized.

The appropriate data signals would simply be piggy-backed on these conductors.

Again, this is a guess, but if it is a representation of how it works, maybe you could power a separate and independent track from the 2.3 amp output of the Pro Box by tapping into the line  between the Pro Box and the booster and going to an isolated rail line and still get 5.0 amps from the booster.  Even if track #1 was drawing 1.3 amps and the booster was only getting 1.0 amp input, it would still provide 5.0 amps output, just like it would do with the Bachmann E-Z DCC Controller connected to it.  Again, the appropriate data signals would simply be piggy-backed on both of these conductor paths and would go to both track #1 and to tracks #2 and #3 via the booster without any variation in their signal contents.

In my case, it would be very handy as I have 3 separate and independent main line tracks and I could power one of them from the 2.3 amp Pro Box output and the other two from the Booster's 5.0 amp output.  



OK, I'm ready for all the reasons I am wrong or why it can't work.  Let me have it!
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 11:53:02 PM by rbryce1 » Logged
rbryce1

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« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2012, 10:53:53 AM »

Since there have been no responses so far , I believe I have found a way to get 5 amps of power and have all my components work together.  I just ordered a new NCE Powercab with their SB3A 5 amp booster.  I'm sorry to say Bachmann just could not get from there to here.  Fortunately, I have not opened the Pro box or the Booster yet, so they are both still new in the box.  
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 03:33:43 PM by rbryce1 » Logged
Thomas1911


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« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2012, 12:52:58 PM »

I don't believe the Powercab w/ Booster will support a programming track either, at least not according to this.  (See pg 9)

http://schutzer.net/Brass_Clinics/NCE_Users_Forum2011.pdf
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rbryce1

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« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2012, 01:22:56 PM »

I don't believe the Powercab w/ Booster will support a programming track either, at least not according to this.  (See pg 9)

http://schutzer.net/Brass_Clinics/NCE_Users_Forum2011.pdf

Actually, it does, both on the main or on a seperate track.  On page 4, it states that the Powercab does have Service mode and Ops mode programming support.  Also, it appears that page 9 in the 2011 article you reference is referring to the SB3a Booster's capabilities, not the Powercab's capabilities.  Some of the limitations listed on page 5 are no longer limitations as well, like only being able to control 2 trains.  For older Powercab that did not have the track programming feature, there is an optional smart switch, part number 524-226 that does allow this, but this may not be any longer necessary in this years' Powercab.

http://modeltrains.about.com/od/DCC/fr/Nce-Power-Cab-Dcc-System-Review.htm

The Powercab throttle has also been substantially upgraded this year.  I now have the ability to toggle betweeen and control 6 trains at once as well as the ability to upgrade to a radio controlled throttle for $80.00 plus a $130.00 antennea receiver that does not need to have line of sight (radio vs infrared).  List was $199.00 and I paid $147.89.  5 amp booster was $129.99.

I still intend to maintain my Bachmann track, locos and other things, it's just that now I have a control system where all the parts play well with each other like they were suppose to.  Also, it is compatable with our local model train club as well.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 03:18:58 PM by rbryce1 » Logged
Thomas1911


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« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2012, 02:28:18 PM »

Yes, the Powercab does have service and ops mode programming.  I am a Powercab user and can confirm this, use both all the time.  I do not have the booster, however.  But, according to the schutzer article, the SB3a booster does not support programming track mode.  Which, unless I'm misunderstanding the problem and maybe some other things, is the same issue as using the Dynamis with it's respective booster.
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rbryce1

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« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2012, 03:17:26 PM »

I looked into this and we are both correct.  The Powercab does program on the main as well as the service track.  The booster, however,  removes the programming data signal, just like all the other manufacturer's cabs as well, Bachmann, Digitrax, etc.  However, by plugging the Powercab into a programming or isolated section of track that is not powered by the booster, you do have programming capability.  I believe this is done with the Bachmann by the programming track coming from the Base unit and the main track power coming from the Pro box.  

Track programming was never my big issue with the Dynamis equipment, it was the inability for you to successfully attach the 5 amp booster to the Dynamis and have it all work.  I do not know if it actually can be done, but so far it seems that no one has been able to do it and have the trains work, the latest attempt being a few previous posts to these.  That was my main reason for switching control systems.  To me, programming is something I will be doing very infrequently, and would probably feel more comfortable doing it on an isolated section of track not even physically attached to the main line.  Guess I am a woose!  But, I did want the Dynamis to work with 5 amps and so far it wouldn't.

My luck will be that tomorrow some monk will come out of his cave in Mongolia and have the answer that makes it all work.  If that is the case, it would be great for Bachmann but to late for me, because I have already made the switch.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 03:29:25 PM by rbryce1 » Logged
NarrowMinded


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« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2012, 09:34:40 PM »

If your using the probox you can't connect the booster to the dynamis Jack you have to put it between the probox and the track...

has anybody done this yet??
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rbryce1

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« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2012, 11:02:37 PM »

If your using the probox you can't connect the booster to the dynamis Jack you have to put it between the probox and the track...

has anybody done this yet??

Yes.  See Captain1313's post of August 18th.  He said he tried it and indicated it would not work.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 05:54:30 AM by rbryce1 » Logged
Yardmaster
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« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2012, 08:12:17 PM »

The following link will take you to a video that shows the proper installation of the 5 amp booster (just replace the EZ Command unit with a Dynamis).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xb9w9on05g&list=UUqXkvBbF7Lemenlxn7Ca-OA&index=31&feature=plcp

Tried it today and the Dynamis worked just fine. Can't add any more to the discussion about programming but the booster worked fine with the Dynamis when installed according to the video.
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