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Author Topic: How do I tell the difference between new and old releases?  (Read 4341 times)
047678

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« on: July 09, 2012, 01:06:38 AM »

I am interested in purchasing a Large Scale Bachmann Porter.  The current catalogue number is 82598. 

Was this the number for the original release?  How do I tell if an advertised model is the new or old release.

I want the new, better running mechanism.

Mick
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Jon D. Miller

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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2012, 08:37:26 AM »

Loco Bill will be able to give you a complete history of the large scale side tank Porter.

But here is a start.  The side tank Porter has been around, on and off, for years.  The 1997 catalog lists the Porter as "new" for 1997.  Catalog lists two item numbers; they are Item No. 11396 and Item No. 11397.

Both of these locomotives have all plastic detail to include valve gear, side and connecting rods.  They are Big Hauler series.

The latest side tank Porters will carry an Item No. 82XXX.  The one you list, 82598 is the painted, unlettered-black with red and white trim.  These latest Porters are part of the Spectrum series.

Features of the Spectrum models are: DCC ready, operating headlight, smoke generator, hidden gear box, metal connecting rods and main rods, and three position polarity swith; to list some of the engine's main features.

Bill can fill in the rest. Smiley

JD
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 08:39:39 AM by Jon D. Miller » Logged

Poster Child (unofficial & uncompensated)
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2012, 09:44:40 AM »

Mick,
JD pretty much covered it.  the new ones came out in 2006.  Here is the list:

82596   CMC   1      2006      0-4-0 Side Tank Porter Colorado Mining Co
82597   MQ&M 1   2006           0-4-0 Side Tank Porter, Midwest Quarry & Mining Co.
82598   None   N/A   2006          0-4-0 Side Tank Porter, Painted, Unlettered, Black Red & white trim
82599   None   N/A   2006            0-4-0 Side Tank Porter, Painted, Unlettered, Black

If you are looking at one with no box the best way to identify it is the metal side rods and three position switch behind the smoke box door.  also the older  road names are different.  Other than that order or buy using the Bachmann number. 

The older ones were:
11396   ETL Co   1   1997   ~ Loco   0-4-0, Ely Thomas Lumber Co.
11397   WLC Co   11   1997   ~ Loco   0-4-0, West Side Lumber Co.
11398   None   None           1997   ~ Loco   0-4-0, Painted, unlettered

As JD said they have plastic sidrods and no three position switch.  11396 & 11397 also have red cab roofs so don't buy one with a red cab roof as the spectrum version only have black roofs.

Mine runs on an automated back and forth lumber spur pulling 3 log cars a fire car and a caboose up and down an almost 3 % grade.  It has been happily doing it since 2007 and runs as soon as the power is turned on for the rest of the layout.  It has lots of hours with no problems.
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Barry BBT

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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2012, 07:27:02 PM »

The best of the porter is not the newest, but one a few years old.  It is best determined by features.

The best porter has all metal valve gear AND a pivoting first axle.  I have an Emmet Kelly Porter with these features - not for sale.

Barry
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2012, 03:03:45 PM »

Barry, JD & others,
I guess it is time to let the 0-4-0 Sidetank monster out of the bag.  Back in 1996-98 the whole "Spectrum" concept was being developed  by Bachamnn.  These Spectrum products would be sold separately and would not be included in Big Hauler sets. 

In 1998 Bachamnn did come out with the Spectrum version of the 0-4-0 with metal siderods and equalized axle as Barry mentioned, but unfortunately they did not use different product numbers, different roadnames or different road numbers than the 1997 Big Hauler version.  It is very risky buying the 11XXX porters just from an ad or on Ebay unless the seller tells you if you are getting the older or newer version or is quite precise in the description. If you are at a swap meet and can see the metal siderods that is another matter.

Here are my database entries for the 1998 Spectrum 0-4-0:

11396   ETL Co   1   1998   0-4-0, Ely Thomas Lumber Co.  All new Spectrum   See notes
11397   WLC Co   11   1998   0-4-0, West Side Lumber Co.    All new Spectrum
11398   None       None      1998   0-4-0, Painted, unlettered        All new Spectrum
Duplicate numbers same as Big Hauler 0-4-0's  In catalog only in 1998 and 2000.

I was trying to keep it simple for Mick so he could be sure the 82598 he was asking about was Spectrum, and that it was safe to buy one. 

There are many problems identifying 0-4-0 side tank porters.  All the porters in sets new in 1997 were the Big Hauler version with plastic siderods including the Emmett Kelly 0-4-0.  It would be quite risky buying a Emmett Kelly Porter because of this alone.  The Clementine and Paul Bunyan and Coal Creek versions also have plastic siderods.   There was some speculation that the 1997 Big Hauler versions in the catalog as 11396, 11397, and 11398 with plastic siderods were never released or sold.  Of the hundreds of pictures I have I do not have one picture of 11396, 11397, and 11398 0-4-0's with Plastic siderods.  So if anyone out there has one with plastic siderods in the box with any of the above numbers I would appreciate getting pictures, including of the box and the end with the Bachamnn number.  So if you can prove they were it would add to the knowledge we have on them.

Barry
Can you tell us if your Emmett Kelly porter was acquired new in the box and if it has a separate individual Bachamnn Number.  This is important for the historical record, because in all the research I and others have done so far show no record of a Spectrum Emmett Kelly Sidetank 0-4-0 being sold with a separate 11xxx product number or with the metal siderods.  Can you send me a photo of the locomotive and also I would appreciate a picture of the box, and the end with the product number on it for the record if you have it.  I do know of some Circus enthusiasts who put the Emmett Kelly body on the Spectrum chassis.

Hopefully the readers are not more confused!!! 

I do not believe the final story has been written.  Corrections and clarifications are most welcome.

Wade Colyer can you add to this??

Bill
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Wade Colyer

Lewistown,PA


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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2012, 05:14:25 PM »

Hi Bill:

 My 90017 Lumber Jack set has the plastic side rods. My 11396 ETLCo, 11397 WLC, 11398 painted unlettered, 90019 Roustabout set, 90029 Paul Bunyan set and 90030 Celemetine set are all boxed and have the metal siderods.

Wade
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JerryB

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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2012, 09:42:24 PM »

I have an undecorated Bachmann 0-4-0 saddle tank engine. Given to me by a friend. No box, no identifying markings. My friend said it is 1:20.3 and that seems to be correct.

Where does it fit into the above mix? Part number and / or year of manufacture would be much appreciated.

Thanks & happy RRing,

Jerry
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Sequoia Pacific RR in 1:20 / 70.6mm
Boonville Light & Power Co. in 1:20 / 45mm
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047678

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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2012, 10:36:44 PM »

Wow! I really opened a can of worms with this.  I will probably purchase online.  The information provided should help me get what I am looking for.  Thank You.

My logging layout runs on  track powered, 12 volt DC.  When working properly, everything runs slow and looks the way it should.  Most of my locos are kit-bashed or scratch-built using LGB mechanisms or short wheelbase, four wheel power blocks from Aristo. Everything runs slow and smooth, provided the track is lightly cleaned and there is sufficient weight in the loco. 

Everything was fine until Bachmann started making geared locos, and I had to have some.

I bought an original two truck Shay, which required new die-cast trucks, but is still going strong. 
I then bought an original Climax which required re-wiring between each truck and the frame to get it to run reliably. 
And, although I should have learned, I bought an original version 2-4-2 Southern.  I ended up putting a six wheel drive mechanism from an LGB 0-6-2T loco in it to make it run slowly and smoothly.

I also found an original ten-wheeler cheap. Very cheap.  I now know why.  The mechanism in this is a complete waste of space, and will one day be replaced or kitbashed.

When I saw the Porter reviewed recently I figured it was safe to buy one...but make sure it is a recent one!

Thanks again,

Mick
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2012, 08:23:01 AM »

Mick, 
Glad you got what you need.    Thanks to your post, those of us who are trying to document the Bachamnn Large scale history are getting some things clarified, and finding new mysteries.  For us this is fun. 

Jerry,  Can you post a picture.  It could be an 11xxx or a an 82xxx series, hard to tell. Those with metal siderods and the detailed builder plate and the ones with plastic and the plain builders plate were the same size. The 82xxx will have the bell in front of all three domes and the 11xxx has the bell between the front and middle dome

Thanks Wade,

I'm so glad you have all the Bachamnn large scale goodies in stock in your amazing collection ! Incredible resource!!  I wish I lived closer so we could work more together.

So we now know some paul bunyan and clememtine  and Roustabout 0-4-0's  have metal and some have the plastic siderods!!    All coal Creek sets have plastic siderods.   

Has anyone seen a 11396 ETLCo, 11397 WLC, 11398 painted unlettered with plastic siderods??  Can we prove these were ever issued in 1997 or later with plastic siderods??  I am beginning to think they were never released!!!  Went through hunderds of pictures last night and couldn't find a single picture of one with plastic siderods.

Looking at hunderds of pictures we can say that these porters with the detailed builders plate have metal siderods and those with the plain builders plate have plastic siderods and are the 11xxx version.  The 82xxx version does not have a builders plate on the side of the boiler and the bell is located in front of all three domes where on the 11xxx series the bell is between the first and middle domes.

I have learned a lot about these Porters. I will try to do a summary of what we have learned in a few days.  Hopefully we might still get a few more answers.

Thanks for all the great input.

Bill


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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2012, 10:20:03 PM »

Wade,  forgot to ask, Did the 11396 series Porters come in a Spectrum Box or a Big hauler box??

Bill
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Wade Colyer

Lewistown,PA


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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2012, 11:16:45 PM »

Hi Bill:

 They are in red Big Hauler boxes with the window. I got all three in October, 2000 at a meet in MD from the same dealer. The bill was still in the box. I think I got the sets the year they came out. I was surprised the sets had the metal siderods too. I've got to rotate my stock on display more often. By the way, I just won the OSH 70th anniversary V&T combine and obs. on EBAY. I wanted the combine for sure and got the obs. in case it might have a different drumhead or something we don't know about. I'll keep you posted.

Wade
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Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2012, 08:51:19 AM »

 Wade,   Glad you finally got those OSH cars.   
Thanks  For the box info
Back in 1997 1998 I'm thinking Bachmann wasn't even sure what to do with the Porters
Another note: the 11xxx 0-4-0 Porters in the 1998 Catalog, were listed on the Spectrum section. 1998 was the first year to have a separate Spectrum page.  In spite of that they were listed as being "returned to the Big Hauler line"  with "premium Spectrum features"  When I get back home next week I will post a complete update on the 0-4-0 Sidetank Porters with pictures from 1989 to present. 


If anyone has an 0-4-0 Porter in the 11xxx series please let me know if you find one with plastic side rods.  Also if you have any  boxes did it say Spectrum anywhere on it
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
Loco Bill Canelos

Model railroading since 1947


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« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2012, 08:17:37 AM »

See my new post with the history
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Loco Bill,  Roundhouse Foreman
Colorado & Kansas Railway Missouri Western Railway
Semi Official Historian; Bachmann Large Scale
There are no dumb or stupid questions, just questions!
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