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Author Topic: Isolating Tracks  (Read 18825 times)
jward


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« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2012, 07:33:18 PM »

the key to this is that you have to gap the track between the power packs. if you try to connect both to an ungapped track they will short.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
Doneldon

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« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2012, 02:25:40 AM »

rb-

Just because I like to muddy the waters (not really) let me say that I'm not too fond of the Atlas wiring book or the expense of the Atlas
components. I recommend one of the Kalmbach wiring books. They cover the requirements more thoroughly, in my opinion, rather than
only presenting how to use Atlas products.

Also, I disagree that gapping the rails in a Bachmann crossover is difficult; I think it's easy to do with either a razor saw or a motor tool
wth a cut off wheel.

I must agree with JerryB that your skin was a bit thin in your response to Hunt's post. My take was that it was condescending, but you said
you specifically didn't intend that meaning. What I can also say is that Hunt's information is almost always right on the money. Yes, he can
be condescending and a bit pompous at times (I'm sure he knows this so I don't think I'm telling stories out of school), but maybe that's
the
price of such high quality advice. It would be nice if his manner were more pleasant, I suppose, but I'm willing to put up with his quirks
the same as I hope people are willing to put up with mine. To me, the value of his contributions is in his information, not his style. That's OK.

                                                                                                                                 -- D
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rbryce1

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« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2012, 07:47:31 AM »

I looked at my Bachmann #6 cross-overs and would agree, a simple saw blade or a Harbor Freight $8.00 die grinder could cut the rail easily.  

As far as Hunt's comments, thanks, I'll try and remember to consider that.  I agree he is usually correct, but even the best comments and/or advice are sometimes discarded if presented in a way that may be perceived as negative to the person receiving it.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 07:56:59 AM by rbryce1 » Logged
jward


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« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2012, 08:27:47 AM »

for what it's worth, when i first started posting here i didn't much care for hunt either. but i've come to respect what he says. he has a knack for finding the relevent literature for anything you have questions about. i just wish he wouldn't set his posts to delete.

put another way, we've all run into people with whom we couldn't get along. the late atlas forum was so full of them i migrated here.    sometimes the best thing we can do is just sit back and listen to what is actually being said, and ignore what we find offensive. there's alot of good info out there and we can all learn from each other.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
Jerrys HO
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« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2012, 04:47:47 PM »

Well said Jeff

I remember my first attempt at helping someone backfired and you were there quickly to correct the situation.

I took a back seat to this one, as I know I am probably wrong about my judgement but rbryce1 does get a little bent out of shape to fast. Take no offense to that rb it is the way your words come out of the keyboard. You probably don't even realize it.

I own a few books but have found most if not all my answer's from people like Hunt,Jeff,Doneldon, Richg,Jonathan, and my all time favorite Jim Banner (speaking of?) and there are many other's (heck you could start another post on these guy's alone).

Quote
One member of the Model Railroad forum actually warned me of this regarding the Bachmann forum.  I didn't use the language he used, as it would not be appropriate either.  At the time I supported the Bachmann forum because I had not seen examples of it.  Now I have.

My point rb don't get offended to fast and get defensive. These guy's are the best.
I could care less what the other's say.

St Joe

I agree with Jeff that using 2 #6's would be easier for you to do. I use a left hand and a right hand on my layout but it is DCC. DCC is so simple a caveman could do it. Now why does that sound familiar?

Jerry 
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jward


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« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2012, 08:27:26 PM »

so simple a caveman could do it, that is, until you start customizing the speed curves on your locomotives....lol

  dcc is as simple or complicated as you make it.    its beauty is that most of the heavy lifting has been done for you by others.    i have been in this hobby long enough to see some of the d i y stuff from the early command control days, and shied away from it for good reason.    what we take for granted to-day was once assembled by hand with components bought at radio shack, and as individual as the person building it.  setting the standard, i think, went a long way toward dcc gaining wider acceptance.   like the internet, there will soon be a day when we wonder how we ever lived without it.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
rbryce1

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« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2012, 09:43:40 PM »

I took a back seat to this one, as I know I am probably wrong about my judgement but rbryce1 does get a little bent out of shape to fast. Take no offense to that rb it is the way your words come out of the keyboard. You probably don't even realize it.


My point rb don't get offended to fast and get defensive. These guy's are the best.
I could care less what the other's say.


You are not that wrong!  I do try very hard to word things in the most constructive and inoffensive mannor possible, and sometimes reading and rewrite it several times before posting it, and generally respond best when the same courtesy is returned.  But, I also do admit that in spite of that, sometimes when a shot is fired across my bow, I unfortunately have a tendency to return broadsides!

Hey Hunt...I'll work on it if you will! Smiley
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 10:18:26 PM by rbryce1 » Logged
Doneldon

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« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2012, 10:31:04 PM »

dcc is as simple or complicated as you make it.

Jeff-

Truer words were never spoken. And sometimes we make it complicated when it's really simple.

                                                                                                                                -- D
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Desertdweller

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« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2012, 12:08:38 AM »

I think Len made a good point that is being overlooked here.  Bachmann is offering a #6 crossover that is only suitable for DCC without modification.

I think Bachmann should acknowledge there are two wiring systems out there that can be incompatible with each other.  A #6 crossover is something that could be used on many layouts, both DCC and DC.

If Bachmann is going to sell these wired in a way only compatible with DCC, they should either offer some wired for DC, or, at the very least, include instructions on how to modify it for DC operation.

I would not like to pay good money for one of these, only to find it had to be heavily modified in order to use.  And how would that affect the warranty?

We also have the situation in N-scale where there are two series of remote-control turnouts, one series wired to be power-routing, the other wired to be non-power-routing.  Both look the same and are not clearly marked which is which.

I personally like the power-routing feature, but can wire the track for either type.  I think most people would like to clearly know what they are buying.

Les
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rbryce1

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« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2012, 08:50:29 AM »

I believe thay do make them both.  The Bachmann Catelog has two different #6 crossovers, one is DCC and one is only remote (unless the remote version will only work on DCC systems with only remote control).  The DCC version is #44137 left and 44138 right and the remote version is 44575 left and 44576 right.  I have the remote version, and have run both DC and DCC on it as well without any issues.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 08:52:31 AM by rbryce1 » Logged
jward


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« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2012, 09:06:57 AM »

is it preoperly gapped for independent dc control of 2 trains?
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
rbryce1

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« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2012, 10:34:30 AM »

I tested with my multi-meter, and I do not think so, not without cutting a gap in the rails.  There are gaps in the rails where the frogs are, because you can have powered as well as unpowered frogs, which would, from a visual inspection, indicate they were electrically isolated tracks.  My frogs are currently unpowered.  A multimeter reading between the frogs and any rail shows no continuity, but there is continuity between all of the same side rails on either side of the frogs and on both sides of the cross-over.

The frogs are definitely not powered or conducting, so that would indicate some consealed undertrack wiring to maintain continuity between all the rails.

I have not yet fastened down all my rails, and lifting up the tracks to where I can just see under the cross-overs, there are screw mounted covers which can be removed to gain access to this area, but I'm not going to disassemble the tracks to get to them.

So my belief is, they will work as they are, as either powered or unpowered frog turnouts in DCC or DC, as long as you only wish to use one DC controller for both track sections and, in DC, either only run one engine or run an engine on either or both sides with common speed and direction of both trains.  It does not look like split operation between two trains in DC will work as they are.

I have DC equipment, but it is not connected to the tracks.  I did a DCC test run with a diesel loco and found that, even with power applied to only the outside track, the engine ran fine on both the outside and inside sections of track.

So, apparently, the only difference between the two sets of turnouts is the way they are switched, either with a built-in DCC decoder or by standard push button remote control.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 02:26:09 PM by rbryce1 » Logged
Len

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« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2012, 01:29:17 PM »

I believe thay do make them both.  The Bachmann Catelog has two different #6 crossovers, one is DCC and one is only remote (unless the remote version will only work on DCC systems with only remote control).  The DCC version is #44137 left and 44138 right and the remote version is 44575 left and 44576 right.  I have the remote version, and have run both DC and DCC on it as well without any issues.

Both of types of #6 Crossovers are wired for DCC layouts. The difference is the later version has decoders built in to them to allow them to be operated by the DCC Controller. Both have to be modified in order to use them to connect two loops being controlled by two seperate DC power supplies.

At the LHS my repair shop is located in, the vast majority of people looking to use them are folks trying to add a second loop to the DC powered train set they recently purchased. So I spend a lot of time explaining to them why the would be better off using two back-to-back switches, even though the crossover "looks cool'. The return rate from people buying them "to see if it will work" in that enviroment is very high.

Len
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If at first you don't succeed, throw it in the spare parts box.
jward


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« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2012, 02:11:01 PM »

i seem top recall another thread on here where somebody modified the crossover for dc operation. in addition to cutting gaps in the rails, they also had to modify the wiring under the crossover. as i recall, all tracks are wired together on the underside.

as was said before, using two individual 6s with insulating joiners between them is far easier than the surgery needed on the crossover.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
rbryce1

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« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2012, 11:44:49 PM »

Jeff,

Looking at my cross-over some more, I believe that cutting breaks into the rails will probably not result in the crossover working any better, as the rails are cut now at the frogs, and the underneath wiring still jumpers out the cuts.  Even if more cuts are made in the rails, if they are not made in the correct positions, the underneath wiring will still jump across the cuts and provide power to the opposite side rails.  I think the jumper wires are going to need to be fixed as well as the rails.
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