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Author Topic: Question on Tender Compatibilty?  (Read 3180 times)
Zytx


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« on: August 20, 2007, 05:00:03 PM »

Before I accidentally burn out more then just the headlight in my Non-DCC 2-6-6-2, Just what locomotives are compatible with with item? I got some bad advice from a freind who claimed I could run the 2-6-6-2 with this tender. The second I applied a 1/4 throttle, the headlight popped. Immediate cancellation of all power. I reattached the original long tender & with the exception of the headlight on the pilot deck, she runs just like before. But having a tender, I'd like to find out what it runs with.

Item #89902
Vanderbilt Medium-Length Tender (with Coal Load)

Thanks,
Rob
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SteamGene

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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2007, 05:53:39 PM »

The medium (I think they are small) Vandy tender works electrically with the Consolidation and the light Mountain.  However, I've never been able to get the tender to track because of where the wires are located.  The medium Vandy will NOT work with the 2-6-6-2, the heavy Mountain, or the light 2-10-2.  It MAY work with some of the Russian Decapods and ten Wheelers.
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Chief Brass Hat
Virginia Tidewater and Piedmont Railroad
"Only coal fired steam locomotives"
Atlantic Central

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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2007, 06:02:22 PM »

Zytx,

Gene is correct, this combo will not work. That is a very small tender for a 2-6-6-2 any way.

Once again, here is the tender wiring/tender compatiblity info I have developed:

Tender Swap – Bachmann medium Vanderbilt oil tender (Item #89905) with 63” driver 10 wheeler (Item #82307)

Initial test using jumpers provided with the tender – dead short, no operation.

Original plan – move 10 wheeler circuit board into new tender. This proved unworkable for several reasons, 10 wheeler circuit board too large and wires too short to fit into Vanderbilt tender without major modifications to both the tender and the circuit board.

New plan – can existing circuit board from Vanderbilt tender be rewired to work with 10 wheeler. A simple examination of both circuit boards revealed that while different, they both have the same basic connections, so the problem must lie in pin assignments in the connectors.

Tracing wires and a few simple checks revealed that the two wire connector simply brings the loco pickups to the circuit board. Reversing the wires on one end of the two wire jumper corrected this. Now the loco runs but in the wrong direction.

Two of the wires on the four wire plug are the motor leads. Reversing them gave us correct operational direction.

This only left the front headlight. The circuit board in the Vanderbilt tender is for the 2-8-0 which has 12 volt lamps for lighting. The 10 wheeler uses LED’s, this is the main reason the circuit board is different. Rather than trying to modify the circuit, I simply replaced the loco headlight LED with a 12 volt lamp.

Additionally I added weight to the Vanderbilt tender bringing it weight to about 5 oz. and replaced all couplers with genuine Kadee #148 on both the loco front and tender.

Result – loco now converted, runs well with original 10 wheeler draw bar and looks great. 

 This issue seems to be tied to what tender cam with what loco in the first place. I do not have all of the Bachmann spectrum locos, but from what I have seen, read and experianced, the following may be a good begining of a compatablity chart:

Light Mouintain & Consolidation will work with all of the "medium" tenders.

Heavy Mountain and 2-6-6-2 will work with the long coal tender, hicken tender and long vandy tender

Russian shares same tender with some 10 wheelers, so I am guessing they share the same circuit board.

The 10 wheeler is really a wild card here because it comes with three different tenders, depending on roadname. Some have the low, small "pre 1900" looking tender, some have the small tender from the Russian and one has the same tender as the consolidation, but obviously with a different circuit board.

But again, I think most of these differences are just the pin assignments and the type of headlight.

Sheldon
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rogertra


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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2007, 07:01:47 PM »

Even though some tenders may be compatable with other locos, the safe rule is to ALWAY keep the tender circuit board with the loco it was originally attached to.

One of these days, the Bachmann brass will understand the need for all tenders (Circuit boards) to be fully compatable across the whole Spectrum range.

But don't hold your breath.
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Atlantic Central

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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2007, 08:34:44 PM »

Roger,

I agree that compatablity would be nice, but that horse has already left the barn. It is unlikely that future versions of existing locos would have some new "universal" tender/circuit board making them not compatable with previous versions. Maybe, but I doubt it.

If you read my post in detail, I have largely solved the question. Keeping circuit boards with their locos is easier to say then to do. Many of the circuit boards from rectangular tenders will not fit in the vandy's - rewiring is easier and better than butcher job cutting/jambing in my opinion.

All the circuit boards have the same six connections. The only difference is the pin asignments on the connectors and the type of headlight lamp, 12V or LED.

Sheldon
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Frisco_Manny

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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2007, 09:15:09 PM »

Even though some tenders may be compatable with other locos, the safe rule is to ALWAY keep the tender circuit board with the loco it was originally attached to.

One of these days, the Bachmann brass will understand the need for all tenders (Circuit boards) to be fully compatible across the whole Spectrum range.

But don't hold your breath.

So the real question should be: What circuit boards fit into what other tender? I love Vandy Tenders and want to run them behind everything, except the modern 4-4-0. I think Bachmann missed the marketing and production bullseye by creating all these "misaligned" circuit boards. It's never too late to change though.

So, again, can all circuit board intermix with other tenders, or is there space issues? I agree, keeping the circuit board of the original engine should be priority.

Frisco_Manny
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Atlantic Central

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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2007, 09:37:45 PM »

Frisco_Manny,

I don't mean to be rude, but did you read any of the above? Or just skim through it?

If you had read my first post, you would know that most of the circuit boards from the retangular tenders do NOT fit in the medium vandy's without a lot of cutting, hacking, jury rigging, kind of sloppy work.

Each tender has its own circuit board dimensions and mounting, some are similar, many are not.

But again I say, they all share the same six connections. The only differences are the pin asignments in the connectors and the type of head light lamp.

The pin asignements are easy to change. The little metal connectors are easily released from the plugs and reintalled in different positions. Any Bachmann circuit board can be used on any loco with the correct pin asignments and ajustments in the headlight circuit or lamp type.

We are not talking space shuttle guidence or quantum physics here, just changing what wire is in what location on a little plug and changing a headlight or a resistor.

Sheldon
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Frisco_Manny

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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2007, 10:17:28 PM »

Frisco_Manny,

I don't mean to be rude, but did you read any of the above? Or just skim through it?

If you had read my first post, you would know that most of the circuit boards from the retangular tenders do NOT fit in the medium vandy's without a lot of cutting, hacking, jury rigging, kind of sloppy work.

Each tender has its own circuit board dimensions and mounting, some are similar, many are not.

But again I say, they all share the same six connections. The only differences are the pin asignments in the connectors and the type of head light lamp.

The pin asignements are easy to change. The little metal connectors are easily released from the plugs and reintalled in different positions. Any Bachmann circuit board can be used on any loco with the correct pin asignments and ajustments in the headlight circuit or lamp type.

We are not talking space shuttle guidence or quantum physics here, just changing what wire is in what location on a little plug and changing a headlight or a resistor.

Sheldon


Haha,

No, I didn't get offended. I just came off of 19 hours of duty since 0230. I'm completely exhausted. I prolly read it, but it didn't sink in. So sorry. My bad.
It's just a little frustrating because a manufacturer who takes such time to create good products totally missed the boat here.

Manny
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Atlantic Central

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« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2007, 07:59:42 AM »

On that I think we all agree, compatablity would have been REALLY nice.

But, it really is not as bad as some make it out to be. I have found most of the "logical" conversions are the compatable ones or are fairly easy.

My 2-6-6-2's all have the long vandy, no modifications necessary.

Some of my Heavy Mountains have the Hicken, no mods necessary.

I'm thinking of adding some more 2-8-0's to the fleet and possably putting medium vandy's behind them. That too is a no mod swap.

My ten wheeler swap discribed above was easy.

I use the left overs behind Mantua and other kit bashes.

The one loco I don't have, which I know has some issues, is the 2-10-2. But, if it has LED headlights, all of the Heavy Mountain/2-6-6-2 tenders should be easily modified to work with it. I know from others these swaps do not work out of the box.
 
Sheldon
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r.cprmier

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« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2007, 11:21:59 AM »

Sheldon;
I just dispense with the existing electricals altogether-that much less that can go wrong.  There isn't a decoder that cannot be tied in without that stock stuff; and being most of my decoders for steam are going to be Tsunami, I will just as soon take a Hicken tender, strip it completely-even the diode (because I install the diode in the back-up light rather than rely on a plastic conveyance.  The way I do it, there is no capacitor(s) to cut, or anything else like that.  Just feed your decoder with the wires from the power plug, and do the rest accordingly.  One extra:  I now have more room in the tender-crucial with sound and two speakers.
Rich
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Rich

NEW YORK NEW HAVEN & HARTFORD RR. CO.
-GONE, BUT NOT FORGOTTEN!
Atlantic Central

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« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2007, 04:21:16 PM »

Rich,

If I were doing DCC and/or sound, I would do just as you are doing. But no DCC or sound here.

Sheldon
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