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Author Topic: Casey Jones and his engines  (Read 16543 times)
GG1onFordsDTandI
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« on: August 04, 2013, 06:05:01 AM »

I recently remounted a gas lamp decoration in the front yard, after finding it in the garage again, 20 years after someone attempted to steal it, bending its original mount beyond repair. Its a cast aluminum ICRR 382, the Casey Jones "Cannonball Express". My question is what are the closest model locos made to this, or even his previous engine. I think Bachmann had a set or two, one in G maybe? American Flyer did one in S in the 60's, But 3r O gauge would be my ultimate choice for this one. Any info or ideas? Its a Rogers 4-6-0.
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Jerrys HO
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 07:05:21 AM »

GG

AHM had one back in 77. I took the liberty to google it.

http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/ahmhoscalelocomotives/id59.html

Caboose Hobbies has it listed in kit form for $175.00

http://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=216470&osCsid=25d5dfaf261512887f319a9b8fe6456d

I have a 4-6-0 in S that is quite similar to this one. It is from the late 50's before Lionel bought them.

Check this one out on evilbay...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-6-0-Project-Loco-/231027312394?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35ca4d070a

Jerry
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 07:13:40 AM by Jerrys HO » Logged
andrewd
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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 08:37:47 AM »

so why do you think people would want a version of Casey's engine it's sad about what happened to him I wouldn't want a version of 382 on my layout or the cannonball express  Cry
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Woody Elmore

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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 10:38:51 AM »

AHM also had an "O" scale static display kit of the Casey Lones engine which could be powered. The motor was a dinky little thing and there was no way the plastic engine could have pulled much. I think it was meant to power the drivers on some kind of display. I can't believe the asking price for the static model!

Whether or not Casey died at the throttle, the model would be a historical piece. After all, didn't people model the Lincoln funeral train?

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andrewd
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« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2013, 06:11:08 PM »

well you do have a good point but still it doesn't make sense  to me Casey was a engineer not a president so why should there be a model of his engine available I'm just confused
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Jerrys HO
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« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2013, 07:37:46 PM »

andrew

you need to pick up a book about Casey Jones. he was one of the greatest engineers of his time. for model railroaders, it is a tribute to him and an honor to have something to be able to model him after.
nothing against the political reference you refer to, but there is tons of memorabilia, monuments and trinkets honoring our presidents.
he may not have run the country, but he owned the railroad.
some here model prototypes and some freelance. whatever somebody models is there preference as is what you are doing. some may think the cog is ridiculous.

Jerry
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rogertra


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« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2013, 08:39:46 PM »

andrew

you need to pick up a book about Casey Jones. he was one of the greatest engineers of his time. for model railroaders, it is a tribute to him and an honor to have something to be able to model him after.
Jerry

Casey Jones brought about his own death by speeding, for which he had a reputation.  The accident was caused by a disregard for the rules

He's only famous because of the Ballad.  He did, much to his credit, stay with his engine but that does not absolve him of full responsibilty for the accident, regardless of the legend and the myth: -

At the official inquiry,  Sim Webb (Casey's fireman) says he saw the flagman and heard torpedoes. Crews on the other train said they heard torpedoes. Many have said Casey was "short flagged" but John Newberry (The flagman) was an experienced man and he had flagged No. 25 a short time before. The rail board's formal investigation concluded that "Engineer Jones was solely responsible for the accident as consequence of not having properly responded to flag signals." The implication being that Casey got a saw-by sign from Newberry and assumed the north switch would have been cleared for him. He made a brake application and was slowing when Sim saw the caboose and shouted. The emergency application was not enough, but it slowed the train enough that no passenger or other crew member was seriously injured.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 08:43:49 PM by rogertra » Logged

Jerrys HO
Guest
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2013, 08:56:06 PM »

roger

Illinois Central Railroad report on accident[edit source | editbeta]

A conductor's report filed just five hours after the accident stated "Engineer on No.1 failed to answer flagman who was out proper distance. It is supposed did not see the flag." This was the position the I.C. would later take in its official reports.[3]
The final I.C. accident report was released on July 13, 1900 by A.S. Sullivan, General Superintendent of the I.C., and stated that "Engineer Jones was solely responsible having disregarded the signals given by Flagman Newberry." John M. Newberry was the flagman on the southbound No. 83 that Jones hit. According to the report he had gone back a distance of 3,000 feet where he had placed torpedos on the rail. He then continued north a further distance of 500 to 800 feet, where he stood and gave signals to Jones's train No.1. But doubt still lingers about the official findings and some wonder where Newberry was positioned that night. Some feel he wasn’t there at all. Some say Jones was "short flagged," but Newberry was an experienced man and he had flagged No. 25 a short time before. In the report Fireman Sim Webb states that he heard the torpedo explode, then went to the gangway on the engineer's side and saw the flagman with the red and white lights standing alongside the tracks. Going then to the fireman's side, he saw the markers of the caboose of No. 83 and yelled to Jones. But it would have been impossible for him to have seen the flagman if the flagman had been positioned 500–800 feet before the torpedoes as the report says he was. Once the torpedoes exploded the train would have already been too far past the flagman’s reported position for him to be visible. So if Webb did see the flagman at this point, he had to be out of position at about 3,000 feet north of the switch, not 3,500–3,800 feet north as stated in the report, which means Jones was indeed "short flagged." It's possible that after the flagman flagged the No. 25 freight through, he heard the commotion as No. 72's air hose broke and everything got jammed up with No. 83 fouling the main line. He may have gone to No. 83 to find out what the situation was, assuming he had time before Jones arrived. He then headed north along the tracks and placed the torpedoes, but by then Jones may have come roaring out of the fog before he made it to his reported position. If this is what happened, Jones lost a good 500–800 feet of stopping distance, which might have prevented the collision. In any event, some railroad historians have disputed the official account over the years, finding it difficult if not impossible to believe that an engineer of Jones's experience would have ignored a flagman and fusees (flares) and torpedoes exploded on the rail to alert him to danger.
Contrary to what the report claimed, shortly after the accident and until his death Webb maintained that "We saw no flagman or fusees, we heard no torpedoes. Without any warning we plowed into that caboose."[3][7]

to some that was debatable, but we were not there so everything is speculation.
do to the chance taker he was and had been cited for, of course he will get the blame.

Jerry
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rogertra


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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2013, 09:45:02 PM »

roger

Illinois Central Railroad report on accident[edit source | editbeta]

A conductor's report filed just five hours after the accident stated "Engineer on No.1 failed to answer flagman who was out proper distance. It is supposed did not see the flag." This was the position the I.C. would later take in its official reports.[3]
The final I.C. accident report was released on July 13, 1900 by A.S. Sullivan, General Superintendent of the I.C., and stated that "Engineer Jones was solely responsible having disregarded the signals given by Flagman Newberry." John M. Newberry was the flagman on the southbound No. 83 that Jones hit. According to the report he had gone back a distance of 3,000 feet where he had placed torpedos on the rail. He then continued north a further distance of 500 to 800 feet, where he stood and gave signals to Jones's train No.1. But doubt still lingers about the official findings and some wonder where Newberry was positioned that night. Some feel he wasn’t there at all. Some say Jones was "short flagged," but Newberry was an experienced man and he had flagged No. 25 a short time before. In the report Fireman Sim Webb states that he heard the torpedo explode, then went to the gangway on the engineer's side and saw the flagman with the red and white lights standing alongside the tracks. Going then to the fireman's side, he saw the markers of the caboose of No. 83 and yelled to Jones. But it would have been impossible for him to have seen the flagman if the flagman had been positioned 500–800 feet before the torpedoes as the report says he was. Once the torpedoes exploded the train would have already been too far past the flagman’s reported position for him to be visible. So if Webb did see the flagman at this point, he had to be out of position at about 3,000 feet north of the switch, not 3,500–3,800 feet north as stated in the report, which means Jones was indeed "short flagged." It's possible that after the flagman flagged the No. 25 freight through, he heard the commotion as No. 72's air hose broke and everything got jammed up with No. 83 fouling the main line. He may have gone to No. 83 to find out what the situation was, assuming he had time before Jones arrived. He then headed north along the tracks and placed the torpedoes, but by then Jones may have come roaring out of the fog before he made it to his reported position. If this is what happened, Jones lost a good 500–800 feet of stopping distance, which might have prevented the collision. In any event, some railroad historians have disputed the official account over the years, finding it difficult if not impossible to believe that an engineer of Jones's experience would have ignored a flagman and fusees (flares) and torpedoes exploded on the rail to alert him to danger.
Contrary to what the report claimed, shortly after the accident and until his death Webb maintained that "We saw no flagman or fusees, we heard no torpedoes. Without any warning we plowed into that caboose."[3][7]

to some that was debatable, but we were not there so everything is speculation.
do to the chance taker he was and had been cited for, of course he will get the blame.

Jerry

The official report, which is the only one that counts, say's Jones was responsible.  That's all that counts.  The only heroic thing he did was stay with the engine but he caused the crash and thus, is no "hero".
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Doneldon

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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2013, 01:13:11 AM »

well you do have a good point but still it doesn't make sense  to me Casey was a engineer not a president so why should there be a model of his engine available I'm just confused

Andrew-

Although there really was a Casey Jones, his place in American folklore is about the same as Paul Bunyon, Wyatt Earp or George Washington.  He achieved legendary status in our larger culture, not just that of rail fans or model rails. This shouldn't be surprising. Until the middle of the 20th Century trains had a real mystique and railroading was considered pretty glamorous. Railroads were also major employers and a fairly common part of most people's lives. Given that social and historical context, it's understandable that he would live on as bigger than life.

                                                                                                                                            -- D
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Woody Elmore

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« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2013, 06:57:04 AM »

I agree with Doneldon about Casey's significance in American railroad lore. The baby boomers amongst us will remember the 1950s TV show "Casey Jones" which starred Alan Hale Jr. It made Casey sort of a very heroic guy.
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jward


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« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2013, 10:14:24 AM »

so why do you think people would want a version of Casey's engine it's sad about what happened to him I wouldn't want a version of 382 on my layout or the cannonball express  Cry

locomotives are usually not one of a kind machines. a model of casey jones locomotive would be reasonably accurate for all in its class, as well as possibly similar classes both on ic and other lines as well.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
Balrog21

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« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2013, 10:34:40 AM »

I do have to chime in here, Casey's fireman was from my home town, McComb, MS. I want to back Don's statement about the industry of the railroad. If it weren't for the railroad my home town wouldn't exist. It was founded solely for the railroad, and it boasted the largest car repair facility between Memphis, TN and New Orleans, LA. Sadly hardly anything is left of the good ole days. The trains still come through daily as they always did, but the days of seeing 20+ engines jockeying cars around and getting ready to work is a thing of the past. I'm just happy to have the memories from my childhood.
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andrewd
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« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2013, 05:23:43 PM »

I think Casey should not have a model of his engine available and just thinking about the crash I sure would hate to be the guy to tell his family about why he didn't come home I have a feeling I would get beat up big time
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Jerrys HO
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« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2013, 06:00:05 PM »

roger
I agree, Casey was no hero by all means but he did a heroic deed by doing everything possible to bring that train to a halt or at least slow her down in order to save the lives of his passengers. Hypothetically speaking I wonder if anyone else would have taken their own life in order to do same.
In the times he was engineering you have to remember there was primitive signalling as to what we have today. It was speculated that the flagman was checking out the problem with the other train and was late to get to the spot where he should have been.
Casey drove the way his employers expected him to drive as to make every stop on time. In that day and age it was an honor to please the boss not so with some of today's workers.
Tragically it had to end in his death but he should be honored as he did what was expected of him and then had to try to stop on a dime in the middle of the night because a train did not make it all the way into the siding.

Jerry 
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