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Author Topic: Differences in modeling throughout the world  (Read 16997 times)
GG1onFordsDTandI
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« on: September 08, 2013, 01:37:31 PM »

The topics covered in another thread about how different people view modeling from different personal, and cultural perspectives. Although a bit tumultuous at times, the last few posts were quite interesting, and informative. I invite a slight reprise of topics covered; Regional differences, focus on scale, the occasional whimsical thought, as well as others new bits of info, and civil personal views here.

I liked the thought of the Brit's focus on the local light rails. It definitely mirrors the usefulness of the early "backwoods" short lines of early America in a way. I wonder if the focus on regional style was naturally tighter for the English sect of modeling, just do to the fact the country has more definition in regional styling? After all, We are influenced by our surroundings if nothing else.







 

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Skarloey Railway

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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2013, 02:40:53 PM »

Aha! I just remarked on that other thread that there seemed some tetchiness and that the subject probably needed its own thread. And you made one. Many thanks.

In case anyone thinks that I am trying to say that UK modelling is better than the US in any way, can I point out that a lot of UK built layouts on the exhibition circuit are dull and lack imagination and that for a decade or so UK modelling of structures and scenery has lagged some way behind the best in the US.
That said, the best in the UK is very good indeed. This is just to give a flavour.
Pempoul - French narrow-gauge in 1:50 scale http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEuTB6Iuje8 everything except the rail and the wheels has been built from scratch. It's a ten year labour of love from a husband and wife team.
Crumley & Little Wickhill - North of England narrow-gauge in 4mm scale on N gauge track. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxo-KbrNRYM a truly exceptional piece of work and very clever design to capture an entire valley. The product of a group of modellers.
World's End Quay - Light/industrial railway in 1 Gauge, 10mm to the foot on 45 mm gauge track. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/179/entry-393-worlds-end-quay/ beautiful work showing that even very large scale can be done in a small space. The work of one man.
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GG1onFordsDTandI
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2013, 12:36:33 AM »

I think maybe excitement over the new scenery here may have skewed your view, ie, looked fine and far enough from the norm for me, to be very interesting. I only saw a million questions because Ive never been to Europe, or deeply looked into railroad workings there Cheesy! Like the bits that look like "shovel handles" under the x-shape on the boxcars in the first video. Is it a strap? hinge? My favorite has got to be the 1 scale layout for the flocking on the grass, and the "old shop barn", and the molded brick, and the wooden trackfill, and the. Roll Eyes.......yea I liked it Grin. The large scale figurine work I saw, and tend to be attracted to, seems to have just the right touch of whimsy for me. Its easier to ad a little "life" to them at that scale. One thing I noted while watching this,(keep in mind Im a "high speed O-gauge looper") The 1:50 video. At that good of prototype speed I never wanted to hear "chuff" from a sound system so bad ever. It was a very nice cupola car too. Is that right? What is the proper UK term for it?
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GG1onFordsDTandI
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2013, 01:02:18 AM »

You know Skarloey, I at least thought You might be able to take a stab at the ID of that 3d layout I posted on the layout thread. Its set in Merionthshire. 
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Skarloey Railway

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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2013, 06:41:18 AM »

Hi GG

I'm Colin, BTW. Being called Skar makes me feel like a character in a fantasy novel.

Those links are to the best I've seen, allowing for my heavily skewed interest towards narrow-gauge and light/industrial railways. I tend not to remember the less interesting layouts, but I assure you there are plenty of them. Sad

I have no idea what the shovel handle shaped framing on the box cars might be. The prototype is a French metre gauge line that vanished in the 1960s. Nor can I recall what the French call the cupolas on the wagons. Essentially they protected the brakes man. It reminds me that one difference between the UK and US is that while modelling overseas prototypes isn't common in the UK it is more common (so far as I can tell) than in the US. Common enough to support a magazine like Continental Modeller, a monthly UK publication specifically serving those who model non-British prototypes.
I agree with you about the gauge 1 layout. The movement and heft of a steam loco is best shown at large scale.
The other layout didn't come off well on the video. The clever aspect is that the way it is designed forces the viewer to look down the length of it so from either direction the train seems to disappear down/up the valley away from the viewer over a distance of some 12 feet. That's a very unusual, but very lifelike perspective. All other models I can think of have the trains passing across the viewer's field of vision left to right or right to left.

Sound is only just catching on over here and among those exhibiting there is some resistance to it as an entire weekend listening to someone's trains apparently gets a bit tiresome!

I'll see if I can ID that layout.
 
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Skarloey Railway

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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2013, 07:08:48 AM »

You know Skarloey, I at least thought You might be able to take a stab at the ID of that 3d layout I posted on the layout thread. Its set in Merionthshire. 

Merionethshire? Is that the design with the balloon loops and umpteen wyes?
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ebtnut

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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 11:06:29 AM »

Re:  the "shovel handles" - I'm going to guess that they may be some kind of mechanism to open what I believe are windows where those small X-braces are located.  Those French box cars could be used to haul livestock (see the "forty and eight" cars) and ventilation would be important. 
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GG1onFordsDTandI
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 12:06:37 PM »

Hi GG

I'm Colin, BTW. Being called Skar makes me feel like a character in a fantasy novel.

Those links are to the best I've seen, allowing for my heavily skewed interest towards narrow-gauge and light/industrial railways. I tend not to remember the less interesting layouts, but I assure you there are plenty of them. Sad

I agree with you about the gauge 1 layout. The movement and heft of a steam loco is best shown at large scale.
The other layout didn't come off well on the video. The clever aspect is that the way it is designed forces the viewer to look down the length of it so from either direction the train seems to disappear down/up the valley away from the viewer over a distance of some 12 feet. That's a very unusual, but very lifelike perspective. All other models I can think of have the trains passing across the viewer's field of vision left to right or right to left.

Sound is only just catching on over here and among those exhibiting there is some resistance to it as an entire weekend listening to someone's trains apparently gets a bit tiresome!

I'll see if I can ID that layout.
 
OK Colin, although I admit if you don't sign posts as Colin, Im likely to preserve privacy by using ....Huh? Skarface ?Grin?(I may forget too Embarrassed)

The diagonal/length view does add quite a bit of depth, speaking of depth the rolling valleys on the smaller displays were very grandiose too. The up close, left to right view, is how I liked to watch my Grandfather run his lighted passenger trains in the dark. Id try to not move except for my eyes, and then try to identify the passenger cars going by at speed like I was standing near it..

The few sound locos I have spend most of the time sound off because I run lots of steam, looping and usually at a scale 90mph Roll Eyes. Older PW O is noisy enough, combine it with non stop chuff, bells, and whistle, and you have an assault on the senses that wipes out sound from the real world a bit too well. After forty+ years my ears are "in tune" with the natural track sounds of O gauge too, any problems are often heard before spotted, especially at higher speeds, and the new sounds interfere with that. But in a slow switching environment I love it! Even diesel movement becomes exiting for me, with the rhythms of air brakes, fan, turbines, and stuff . I couldn't resist finding an operating hot box car(smoking bearings, and squeal) for occasional use.(its the most annoying thing ever produced for a model railroad).
Scale sizes, and how they tend to be modeled, vs the type of detail I prefer, mainly as many operating items as possible, is one of the reasons I lean to the larger scales. If our trains were static models, Id stick to rail fanning, and history.  I like doors that open, water tower pipes that lower, swing, or telescope, cranes that lift, guys throwing things out the door of a freight car, pot belly stoves making a caboose smoke, coal and lumber dumping/loading. The less toy like cars are the better, but well, I like toys too, allot. N and HO trains don't really offer that operating ability. Small scale locos of today, are little marvels of model engineering, the older ones not so much. too jerky for my taste. Also. only one engine smaller than S lasted a year for me, even as an adult. Scale products in O are often much more expensive than their smaller counterparts too. One reason is size, but the reasons for HO being the most popular world wide I think is obvious, its the biggest size available with reasonable "prototypical" track radius, and with popularity, lower cost. I think its the reason for the On30 trends also. The cost part has been offset for some by the lower cost of HO track. As far as modeling the opposite shores I think there was a lack of exposure to UK rail. Before Thomas, the only things I knew about were the Mallard, and Scottsman in steam, Croc's(2) and Valtellina for electrics, they were the only five European engines Grandpa owned, all brass and only the mallard was painted. If I ever go modern era, I think the Japanese trains would be my target. High speed, styling both serious and outrageous, the Nankai 50000  Rapi:t is definitely a train I could live with, even in small scale.


Re:  the "shovel handles" - I'm going to guess that they may be some kind of mechanism to open what I believe are windows where those small X-braces are located.  Those French box cars could be used to haul livestock (see the "forty and eight" cars) and ventilation would be important. 
Interesting, forming a little awning I too!?!?


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Skarloey Railway

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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 01:41:11 PM »

Re:  the "shovel handles" - I'm going to guess that they may be some kind of mechanism to open what I believe are windows where those small X-braces are located.  Those French box cars could be used to haul livestock (see the "forty and eight" cars) and ventilation would be important.  

I've found this pic of the real thing: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Couvert_Breton.jpg Haven't the foggiest how they work but I think ventilation is a good deduction.

Colin.
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TimR

Ephraim Shay, the Man


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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2013, 05:20:29 PM »

Here is one in the ouvert, er.....opened position.

http://cfcdn.chez.com/wagonRB.htm
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Skarloey Railway

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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2013, 06:33:32 PM »

Here is one in the ouvert, er.....opened position.

http://cfcdn.chez.com/wagonRB.htm


Thank you. I'd never have guessed they slid down. I assumed they swung out but couldn't see where they hinged. 
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GG1onFordsDTandI
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2013, 09:09:37 PM »

Not what I expected Colin but with that photo it was easy for me to see to see. The notches at different heights were the first clue, then I spotted the welded triangle stops, because I love to weld, and the finally outer guide plates over top the structural steel.  I thought about the clearances, and wind lift on the non existent awnings too, it just didn't make allot  of sense to me mechanically. Thanks to you Colin, and Tim for taking time, Im a little more worldly now. Wink Do these operate(open) on any euro-scale models? I also saw similar window panels on what I thought was an English car, sans "shovel handle" any idea what the trick to operation is on them?
Im wondering now if the 3d landscape is a bit too obscure. I thought some one would make a stab at it. One of my Grandfathers brought back a children's book from overseas, while visiting Welsh relatives. It wasn't Thomas Roll Eyes. Later I saw an animated TV show for kids by the same title and assumed it was also at least somewhat popular...I liked it. Recently I saw it mentioned on another site, some one was doing a very loose interpretation of it, and I, remembering a map, I found it and decided to learn the SCARM program a little better, recreating the rail map of where the little green train ran, in 3d SCARM.

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jward


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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2013, 07:40:47 AM »

one of the biggest difference I can see between us modeling and European modeling has to do with the terminal facilities. in Europe and the uk, passenger trains are very common, so modeling often focuses on the intricate trackage around station areas. also most lines have at least 2 tracks.

in the us, passenger trains are rare in most of the country, with freight trains running on single track common. thus our efforts focus on small yards and moving freight. the only places we have European type passenger terminals are in the major cities like new York and Chicago, where commuter trains dominate. those terminals see few if any freight trains, and on those passenger heavy lines railroads tend to run freight at night rather than get stuck in a siding for hours during the day.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
rbryce1

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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2013, 08:44:18 AM »

I watched a segment on the History channel about Freight Trains and they commented that in the US, 97% of all trains are heavy freight, which includes coal and ore as well.  Only 3% was passenger service.

I also found it humerously interesting that they said the demise of a lot of train service came in the 50's & 60's with the arrival of the interstate highways and shipping by trucks, which had only started reversing itself in the 90's with a lot of heavy rail freight service.  They then showed a segment on freight car maintenance and construction as well as Diesel locomotive construction, and it showed during the construction and maintenance of the freight cars and during the construction of the locomotive, where they build or repaired the entire freight car and built the entire engine frame, diesel, generator and support systems,  then they pick it all up and set it down on the two trucks.  Interestingly enough, probably due to the Teamsters Union, even now  it seems that trains are still being moved with "trucks"!   Grin Wink
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 10:27:49 AM by rbryce1 » Logged
GG1onFordsDTandI
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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2013, 12:30:53 PM »

Oh the irony! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd_CAvruEIg
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