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Author Topic: 4x8 track plans  (Read 58636 times)
Jerrys HO
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« on: November 24, 2013, 10:05:03 AM »

There has been a lot of inquiries into small track plans so I thought putting up a thread of usable track plans would be interesting.
The track plans shown are pretty basic standard turnouts and 18r curves. I would imagine you could customize it by using anyrail or another track planning software.
Before I start this endeavor I was wondering if first - there would be any problems with posting pics from Model Railroading books, second - would anyone enjoy a thread like this.

Jerry
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jward


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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 10:57:39 AM »

the 4x8 is an art form. post away.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 11:48:10 AM »

I would be very interested in seeing this. I would imagine there are many newbies like myself coming on here this time of year. i woud like to find a 4 x 8 plan that more experienced folks think is a good start
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Jerrys HO
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2013, 10:23:40 PM »

Well spent most of the day trying to make the plans in the book work with what it say's to use and that did not work.
I decided to try and imitate one and did pretty good with it. This design is for small engines such as 2-6-0, GP's and such. When I was using 18r's my SD's did fine but had a little overhang. So it is possible.
I will try to work on more maybe one a month or sooner depending on the feedback I get off of this one.
Here it is...



list of materials...

Track & Objects
3022, H0 Walthers Structures 3022. Grain Elevator.   1
3064, H0 Walthers Structures 3064. Shops.   1
3533, H0 Walthers Structures 3533. Freight House.   1
3601, H0 Walthers Structures 3601. House.   4
3619, H0 Walthers Structures 3619. Shop.   1
44501, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44501. Curve radius 18", angle 30   23
44511, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44511. Straight 9".   12
44514, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44514. Straight 4 1/2".   4
44541C, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44541C. Crossing 2". 90   1
44542, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44542. Crossing 3". 60   1
44561, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44561. Left turnout 9". radius 18"  (remote)   3
44562, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44562. Right turnout 9". radius 18"  (remote)   3
44592-2, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44592-2. Straight 1".   1
44592-4, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44592-4. Straight 1 1/2".   4
44592-5, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44592-5. Straight 2".   2
44597, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44597. Straight feeder 9".   2

Track lengths
44501, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44501. Curve radius 18", angle 30   18 1/16 '
44511, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44511. Straight 9".   9 '
44514, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44514. Straight 4 1/2".   1 1/2 '
44541C, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44541C. Crossing 2". 90   21/64 '
44542, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44542. Crossing 3". 60   1/2 '
44561, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44561. Left turnout 9". radius 18"  (remote)   4 39/64 '
44562, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44562. Right turnout 9". radius 18"  (remote)   4 39/64 '
44592-2, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44592-2. Straight 1".   5/64 '
44592-4, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44592-4. Straight 1 1/2".   1/2 '
44592-5, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44592-5. Straight 2".   21/64 '
44597, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44597. Straight feeder 9".   1 1/2 '
44912  Automatic Reverse Loop Module
Total track length:    41 1/32 '

This layout has a reversing loop if you haven't noticed. I have included the gapped track and reverse module for DCC operation.

Jerry
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 01:58:43 AM by Jerrys HO » Logged
jbrock27

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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2013, 01:22:27 PM »

Thank you for posting this Jerry.
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rogertra


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« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2013, 04:31:03 PM »

The "problem" I see with most 4 x 8 plans is they have no goal, no aim, no mission.

You cannot logically move freight from A to B with a purpose, as there's no clearly defined destination(s) nor reason to move cars.

There is no logic to the switching moves.

It's a case of grab some cars, run around the circle for a few turns and then, switch the cars anywhere?

But I guess that's because I'm into realistic operation.  This requires a logical system of car forwarding, a logical reason to run a train, logical motive power to haul those trains and to be era specific.

My ideal 4 x 8 would have one station along one of the 8 foot sides, with a passing track, several industrial spurs, one of which would be an interchange preferably leading off to the edge of the 4 x 8 (Future expansion?).  This would be the scenic area.  The other half of the 4 x 8 would be a few through staging tracks, unscenicked.  There would be a sky backdrop separating the two.  Trains would then operate between the staging yard and the scenicked station area.

You could have an east and west bound "through" freight that both stopped and only switched the interchange and dropped off any local cars onto the interchange for the station.

A way freight could also run.  It could be a way freight that passes through or, more interestingly, come from only one direction and terminates at the station.  Here it switches the local industries and, if required, the interchange track, sorts it's train out into the correct order for the return journey, even though there are no other modelled station, before it heads back the way it came.

If you like passenger trains, you could have both an east and west bound passenger come through or, perhaps, a commuter train that arrives from the opposite direction to the way freight, terminates, the engine does a run around, and then the train heads back from whence it came.  There are other combinations of trains and workings that can make a small 4 x 8 far more interesting than just running trains around in circles.  Of course, with through staging, you still have that option if all you want to do is just watch a train run for a while. If you go this route, you then need to develop a system of logical car forwarding, which gets you into either computer software for waybills, or a manual car-card & waybill system.  You can also use your staging yard as "fiddle yard", where you physically remove cars and locomotives and replace them with other models you have to hand so you are not always seeing the same engines and cars.  Giving the railway a goal and purpose will, usually, maintain interest in the railway far longer than just a tail chaser.

I have just completed my temporary through staging and as I'm typing this, a sound equipped Bachmann 2-8-0 is just orbiting around the railway, just for fun.  So even us "prototype" modellers like to "tail chase" once in a while.

But that's just me.  If someone gets pleasure in just running trains while it may not be my cup of tea, who am I to say they are wrong?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 04:55:55 PM by rogertra » Logged

Jerrys HO
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« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2013, 07:47:06 PM »

Wow Roger you just make me want to delete this post, tear down my layout and start playing video games. Seriously that is how I felt after reading your reply.
I must say some modelers have worked for the railroad or had a relative that did and have more knowledge than reading a book about railroads could ever offer.
While most do not have the room to build a large layout or build YOUR ideal layout because of lack of room for expansion but still love trains and find anyway possible to enjoy the pleasure of trains until someone who counts rivets puts has to make us wonder why am I doing this I have no clue of how real railroads work.
Don't get me wrong, you have an outstanding layout that is well detailed. As a kid and even an adult going to train shows and exhibits you see the trains traveling around the layout and watching them loco's is just fantastic and makes you want to build one to have fun too. I mean no disrespect to your post but all I am trying to do is help others achieve their dream as I once had.

Jim glad your happy I have a couple of more much my own design playing around.
If needed I will add material lists upon request so as not to take up to much room.

For those WHO are interested here's a couple more...

 



Jerry
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 08:10:40 PM by Jerrys HO » Logged
rogertra


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« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2013, 09:03:27 PM »

Jerry.

If you read my post correctly, you'll see I was describing a 4 x 8 "model railroad".  Emphasis on "railroad".

Not some basement filling empire but a simple but prototypical 4 x 8 foot model railroad.

I was showing that a prototypical model railroad can be built on a 4 x 8, no matter how bad using a 4 x 8 happens to be.  Smiley

Not a train set.

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jbrock27

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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2013, 09:09:32 PM »

Thank you again Jerry!

Am I correct that your later 2 posting utilize some 15 degree curves in places?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 09:15:01 PM by jbrock27 » Logged

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Doneldon

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« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2013, 10:16:47 PM »

Well, I'll just go on record as saying that, IMHO, 4x8 layouts have a real purpose in the hobby, or even several purposes. I don't need to list them; you all know what they are. And while I share Roger's affinity for operations and having a railroad which can be run with a purpose in mind, I also think it is very necessary for us to recognize that every modeler has different experiences and different expectations for his/her railroad, and they deserve to be respected whether we agree with their choices or not. Please note that I am neither saying nor implying that Roger's statement is in any way disrespectful. It's not. But I'm aware that it is very easy to slide into criticizing someone else's plans or devaluing them when they are different from our own.
                                                                                                                     -- D
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jward


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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2013, 11:08:46 PM »

it seems to me roger is missing the point entirely. a 4x8 is a canvas, what you paint on it is up to you. most of what will be painted will be uninteresting, but there will be a few works of art. if you want a "railroad" as roger puts it, you can if you utilize some creative design. it is easily possible to get a point to point in 4x8, many such plans have been published. and car card systems can be utilized on a 4x8 the same as any other layout.

personally, i'd rather have a 4x8 layout than 30 feet of straight track along a wall......
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
rogertra


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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2013, 11:46:51 PM »

it seems to me roger is missing the point entirely. a 4x8 is a canvas, what you paint on it is up to you. most of what will be painted will be uninteresting, but there will be a few works of art. if you want a "railroad" as roger puts it, you can if you utilize some creative design. it is easily possible to get a point to point in 4x8, many such plans have been published. and car card systems can be utilized on a 4x8 the same as any other layout.

personally, i'd rather have a 4x8 layout than 30 feet of straight track along a wall......

But Jeff, it's not me that's missed the point, far from it.  Either you did not read my post fully, or failed to understand it.

I never mentioned point to point, quite the opposite in fact.  I had a station on one side and through staging on the other showing that it IS possible to have a prototype style model railroad in a 4 x 8, something you and the other commentators on my post failed to notice.  I was just posting another option for the use of the 4 x 8 in that it does not have to always be a tail chaser.   While I'll admit that roundy go roundy, tail chasing railways are not my cup of tea, if that's what others chose to go for then good on them.

You also seemed to have failed to notice my closing comment which I state above.

At least Doneldon grasped my point if nobody else did.

As for the 30 feet of straight track.  That is prototypical track plan and is based on the Rutland's Alburgh Yard in Vermont. I get far more operational fun out that yard than I'd get watching a train chase its tail around a 4 x 8.  Even though my model railroad trackage is not even 50% complete, it still takes over two hours to run some five trains or so and switch the yard and the industries.  I only have a temporary five track staging yard on the other side of the room so hence the low number of trains but in several years from now there should be a couple more stations and way more staging tracks.  I'm hoping to keep some five or so operators busy for at least a four hour operating session.  That's the goal anyway.



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Jerrys HO
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« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2013, 02:21:09 AM »

Did anyone notice my first pic disappear? That was not intentional as I was making a new folder in photobucket and moved the pic and it disappeared from here.

Roger I did not misunderstand you as I stated I did not want to be disrespectful. This thread (named 4x8 track plans) was designed to help others with limited space design a track plan and improvise from there. Instead of making the comments about 4x8's
Quote
The "problem" I see with most 4 x 8 plans is they have no goal, no aim, no mission.
why don't you help and design your 4x8 and post it here. Every plan has a goal and a mission.
This thread was started in hopes other's that had/have plans would post them or show how to improve on the ones posted. 

Jim
yes the new plans have 15r included. The two new plans have 22r outer, 18r middle and 15r inner track.

Jeff
Quote
a 4x8 is a canvas, what you paint on it is up to you. most of what will be painted will be uninteresting, but there will be a few works of art.
Thanks for the encouraging words.

To all the newbies hope this thread helps and do start out with a basic design whether you draw it on paper or use someone's software to design it. You won't regret it later.

Jerry
 
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rogertra


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« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2013, 03:57:15 AM »

Did anyone notice my first pic disappear? That was not intentional as I was making a new folder in photobucket and moved the pic and it disappeared from here.

Roger I did not misunderstand you as I stated I did not want to be disrespectful. This thread (named 4x8 track plans) was designed to help others with limited space design a track plan and improvise from there. Instead of making the comments about 4x8's
Quote
The "problem" I see with most 4 x 8 plans is they have no goal, no aim, no mission.
why don't you help and design your 4x8 and post it here. Every plan has a goal and a mission.
This thread was started in hopes other's that had/have plans would post them or show how to improve on the ones posted.  


Jerry
 

And I reiterate,  the "problem" with most 4 x 8 is they do not have a goal, aim or mission.

Actually Jerry, if you re-read my post, I did make a suggestion on how to design a 4 x 8 for operation.

I offered a solution.  Unfortunately, I do not have the software to design and post anything here and I also have no need for software to design set track layouts as I either hand lay my track or use flex track.  I also have no need of track design software as I do not design model railroads more than once every ten years or so.   And then I use paper and pencil or just design as I go along.  Smiley

However: -
                                      / Log Yard
                                     /
       ____Team Track___/_____Industry________Industry_
                                   /______Commuter layover____                                                                    Staging
                                  /
 A_________________/______STATION____________________________________________________________________________________________ Connects to A
     ______________\_____________________________/______________                          \______________________________/
         Interchange                                                                     Industry                             \____________________________/


Obviously not to scale and not as nicely drawn as your drawings but it's the sort of thing I had in mind.

Perhaps you could use your software and see what you can come up with along these lines?

With 18" curves at the ends I see six car freights?  Two or maybe three car passenger trains?

As there's no turntable, small diesels?  Geeps, RS-3, S-4, from Bachmann?

What do you think?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 04:00:20 AM by rogertra » Logged

Ron Zee

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« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2013, 04:48:10 AM »

In the three plans presented above, two of them if you start out going clockwise around the track, you can eventually get it to start going counter clockwise. But, then you can't get it to go the other way again. The first one is the same except starting out in the opposite direction. Looks to me that the only way to get the train to go the other way again, is to physically pick it up and turn it around, (like that happens in real life sized trains) or installing a turntable into the above designs. The only other way involves a lot of backing up.
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