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Author Topic: Overproduced models  (Read 6097 times)
Trainman203

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« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2015, 09:18:47 PM »

Also the "eastern 4-window center cupola" caboose.
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Modeling the New Iberia and Northern 1945
jward


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« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2015, 11:30:12 PM »

unlike the santa fe style caboose, the northeastern type is appropriate for at least 10 different railroads. conrail, for example, inherited them from 4 different lines.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
Trainman203

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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2015, 01:05:26 AM »

That's true, but a few hundred thousand of them have been produced......
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Modeling the New Iberia and Northern 1945
brokenrail

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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2015, 11:45:19 AM »

Is there a separate column for over produced diesel models ? Should I start in the past with the F7 and now in these modern days a sd40-2 ,or the new fad of the sd70ace witch every maker has produced at least one version along with a few Heritage series.It is good that they are producing steam models for the new generation.Thy would have forgotten what they were since most had never seen them run the rails.The only real influences are the museums ,history lessons and TV along with are models running on the layouts.Just wonder how steam is selling compared to the past generation of modelers that actually seen them in action? Anybody Huh?
Johnny Adam 
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jward


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« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2015, 12:22:48 PM »

the f7 and sd40-2s were best sellers in real life, the standard locomotives of their day. almost every railroad of any size had them. to me the overproduced diesels would be the ones that were extremely rare in real life yet made by more than one model manufacturer. Baldwin sharks and fm c liners would come to mind, as would ge u28bs. particularly in the case of the u28b, its already limited production (about 100 total) can be divided into two distinct phases, the earlier one identical to the earlier and radically different looking u25b. all of which leaves several dozen relatively short lived examples of what most modellers know as the u28b.
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Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA
Mdaskalos

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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2015, 12:36:36 PM »

PF says:  We have a restored operational T&NO 2-8-2 right here in town, I can hear its 6 chime from my house.  I don't see everyone falling all over each other to offer a model of it.

Yesssss, but is the T&NO 2-8-2 a national railroading icon, with interest spanning into the general public?

One (speaking in terms of interest) would be akin to a Beatles reunion, the other, akin to Jake & Elwood putting the band back together.

Manuel
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rogertra


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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2015, 01:49:13 PM »

unlike the santa fe style caboose, the northeastern type is appropriate for at least 10 different railroads. conrail, for example, inherited them from 4 different lines.

25+ Years ago, Athearn was the major "scale" (for the day) model railroad rtr manufacture.  Nobody came close to Athearn.  Every single other North American model railroad manufacture produced models that were best described as "toy trains" not "scale models".

The reason the AT&SF style caboose became popular among modellers and manufacturers was due to Irv Athearn.  He was an AT&SF fan so practically everything Athearn produced came out in AT&SF markings, whether they owned that prototype or not.  Hence the populariy of the AT&SF caboose because as far as most manufacturers were concerned, Irv hit on a good thing so why not copy it?

Cheers

Roger T.

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Trainman203

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« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2015, 08:17:43 PM »

I don't know, Manuel...... Every time they trot that 2-8-2 out, the general public goes nuts to see it.....  Every surviving steam engine is an icon of America's great past.
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Modeling the New Iberia and Northern 1945
electrical whiz kid

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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2015, 08:12:24 AM »


My memories of "Uncle Irv" go back many years-to 1954- a hobby shop called "Stanley Winthrop's" In Quincy Mass, and a chance visit by me and my new bike.  Up until that time, I had no idea HO-or model trains of any type-existed.  Back home, reaching into my "grouch bag" I found a dollar fifty,  raced back,and purchased a "globe" model of a Union Pacific F-3 A.  I was hooked.  I had quickly discovered guys with like interests.  I had now learned about Varney, Silver Streak, Ambroid-both models and cement... et al, and other guys' layouts-mine under my bed-and a great mag (besides Mad and Playboy)...   
Athearn had dogged me well; into my teen years (girls and cars and guitars), military time, fatherhood, a career of various electrical capacities, and finally as a master electrician ready to 'retire'..., I find myself with an increasing amount of free time to run full tilt into a hobby I love.

Having had knowledge of Globe (now Athearn; now Horizon;) for all of this time (60) years; and occasionally finding this stuff at train shows, like Springfield. I find that initial 'bug' that bit me, still (like that occasional bout with agita...) alive and kicking.  I wouldn't buy that F3-A again-but the memories of it sitting on my window ledge in our apartment still warm my heart.

Rich C.
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brokenrail

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« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2015, 07:24:51 PM »

Train shows are hilarious.  People bring in a box full of a broken up 1980 train set and think it is worthy of the Smithsonian. Then there are the tables full of low end Talgo  truck freight cars missing a wheelset or a coupler, called "rare!" And marked up to 25 bucks. Or the horrible shiny repainted cars with crooked decal jobs called " rare custom work."

The only time I ever go to train shows any more is to help my friend set up and run his LHS booth.
I found a first run LL blue box P2K E8/9 B-unit powered at one of those shows.They are extremely rare in the first run since for some reason something happened with there tooling for those wile in Life likes hands and they stopped making them.They reissued them later years ,but were different,The side doors did not open and they were in a gray box turning into Walthers.
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hotrainlover

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« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2015, 02:36:57 PM »

It is nice that Athearn will be producing the Bigboy in the oil fired Excursion theme, that the UP is currently restoring.  I have several coal fired Bigboys on my layout.  A review on You tube shows the model with respect to the new tooling Athearn is using.  I will be purchasing one of these for my round house!  Now if someone would produce the excursion TENDERS SEPARATELY!!....... 
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Desertdweller

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« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2015, 05:26:31 PM »

As long as a model is selling in quantities sufficient to sustain the desired margin of profit, it is difficult to say it is overproduced.  Obviously, a demand for it is there, and the public is willing to pay what it takes to keep it on the market.

When a situation develops of several companies building essentially the same product, it becomes a matter of cost/benefit to the buyer.  If a product is perceived as a poor value, it will fall from the marketplace.

In the case of Athearn, it was able to dominate the HO market for decades because of its cost/benefit.  Even in the days of rubber-band drive, its locomotives were better than any of its competitors in its same price range and time.  Even in the 1960's and late 1950's, Athearn locomotives were built with large, high-quality motors (Pittman, that were also found in brass imports and slot-racing cars); cast metal frames and trucks; all-wheel drive on 4-axle locomotives; wireless chassis; and separately-applied handrails on hood units.  This at a time when their competitors typically used injection-molded plastic frames and trucks, and small motors that drove only two out of four axles, and depended on crude lumps of cast lead and traction tires for adhesion.  Although clearly upper mid-range in price, they were so superior to their competitors' product that they still were able to capture the market.

That company's choice of making Santa Fe its primary prototype was also a great idea.  No matter where the modeler was located, Santa Fe was a familiar name, largely because of its promotion by Lionel.  And ATSF was a major transcon itself, exposing itself to lots of modelers.  It had possibly the best paint scheme ever used by a railroad, and had a wide variety of equipment types.  It ATSF offset cupola caboose was very similar to cars used by many American railroads.  If PRR was the "Standard Railroad of the World" in full-size trains, then ATSF took that title in model trains. 

It should be no surprise that so many manufacturers tried to copy Athearn's success.  Some eventually succeeded by putting quality first and charging accordingly, others kept building to a low price point and hoping to garner business based on price alone.  Model railroading, for good or bad, has become mainly an adult hobby.  And adults are looking for quality goods that will last for years or maybe for the balance of their lifetimes.  They are not interested in saving $30 on a locomotive that will be in the junk box in two years.

I think most of the readers of this blog would agree that Bachmann has risen to the high quality market.  As have Life-Life (Walthers).  Con-Cor and Atlas were always there.  Same with Kato and Intermountain.
The others, not so much.  As the customers have aged, quality trumps price.  All these good manufacturers pretty much sell models of the same prototypes, so there is really not a case of overproduction.

Les
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RAM

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« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2015, 10:05:21 PM »

When Lionel was coming out with the F units, railroad like the NYC and the Santa Fe paid Lionel.  They wanted people to see NYC & Santa Fe trains, so people would want to travel on their railroad. 
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jbrock27

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« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2015, 10:42:00 PM »

Les, were/are Con-Cor locomotives thought of that highly in HO land?  I never though they were, at least, not like the other brands you mentioned.  I know the whole deal about their using Atlas trucks and chassis and using American made shells but the rest of the unit was made in Mexico, no?  And I understand some of their recent products are Chinese made but never heard much talked about them either.
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Keep Calm and Carry On
wiley209

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« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2015, 12:44:29 AM »

It's worth mentioning some of the locomotives Bachmann currently makes in HO scale have been around for decades...


The DeWitt Clinton set has also been around for decades; first appearing in the 1982 Bachmann catalog. Even the packaging looks very similar as it did back then!
The "American" 4-4-0 steam locomotives have been made as early as 1976, but over time, they were improved, and the ones made today are much better than the ones made almost 40 years ago.
The Northern and GS4 4-8-4 steam locomotives have been made since the mid-to-late '70s, and also came with simple pancake motors and traction tires initially. In 1992, they became "Bachmann Plus" models and were improved greatly, similar to how they are currently produced.
The Prairie 2-6-2s have been made since the '80s, and the USRA 0-6-0s have also been made since the '70s.  One curious example is the "Smoky Mountain Express" locomotive; that was originally made for a train set Bachmann first began making in the early '90s. Although the set isn't made anymore, they still continue to make the locomotive...
The E60CP locomotives have been made since the late '70s. Even long after Amtrak retired the real ones, Bachmann continued making them. Of course, today's models come with higher-quality motors and DCC, compared the ones from the past.
The DD40AX first appeared in Bachmann's catalog in 1980. It came with a blinking warning light, and some models had an operating diesel horn (IDK how good it sounded, though), due to its' long size. But it still had a cheap pancake motor for its' power. It was discontinued in the mid-90s, when Bachmann began to phase out those low-quality locomotives being sold outside of train sets. A Spectrum version soon appeared in the late '90s, and was a big improvement. It even came with dual motors, just like the real thing. Recently, Bachmann brought the DD40AX back into the standard line, but still similar to the Spectrum version in terms of quality. And when Bachmann began making sound-equipped DCC locomotives, what was the first diesel to come with a sound module? Again, this was clearly due to the long length of the DD40AX. In all this, I am surprised they have not modeled 6936 yet (the only one the UP currently operates, mainly for special trains; all the others were retired as they were getting to expensive to maintain, and they used a lot of fuel.)
The GP50 first came out in the '80s, but other than upgrading them with knuckle couplers, all-wheel drive and can motors, they haven't changed that much, and are only in Norfolk Southern-related railroad names (probably because in real life, they were the only roads to run GP50s.)
The GP40 has been in Bachmann's product line since they began making HO-scale locomotives in 1970! Over time, they've been upgraded with improved motors, all-wheel drive, knuckle-couplers, etc. Today they have more nicely-detailed shells, and even dual-flywheel can motors, and you can even get DCC sound-equipped models as well.
The SD40-2 first appeared in Bachmann's catalog in 1983. The early versions came with a reversing headlight, which was rare on consumer HO locomotives at the time, and a blinking warning light. Today's SD40-2s have seen the same improvements as the GP40s have, and are much better than the ones made 30 years ago.
The GP35 is a former Bachmann Plus model, introduced in 1993. For a while, it was sold as a Spectrum locomotive as well, before being placed in the standard line (though still Plus-quality.) Another former Bachmann Plus model currently being made today is the F7 A and B diesels, which even come in sound-equipped versions.
The GP30 was first introduced in 1980; again, it has been upgraded as an improved model.
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