ONLINE
STORE
"ASK THE BACH MAN"
FORUM
PARTS, SERVICE,
& INFORMATION
CATALOGS AND
BROCHURES

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
January 20, 2018, 12:53:05 PM
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Check out the photo gallery link above or >click here< to see photos of recently announced products!
+  Bachmann Message Board
|-+  Discussion Boards
| |-+  Williams by Bachmann
| | |-+  Wide Rollers and shorting out on UCS tracks
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Wide Rollers and shorting out on UCS tracks  (Read 2599 times)
Brady

View Profile
« on: January 17, 2009, 01:38:18 PM »

I'm glad that Bachmann hasn't sought to "improve" Williams but there's one change I would love to see -  get rid of those wide rollers and the wide ends on the roller pickup arms. 

I had to take a file to one of the the wide ends of one of the roller arms to keep my 44 tonner from shorting out on one UCS track, it was coming into contact with one of the activation blades.  My GG-1 is very picky about the UCS tracks it'll roll over..

The upside is that instead of UCS tracks where uncouplers were needed, the roller issue made me create some uncoupling tracks.  I removed the magnet sections from a couple of new issue 027 uncoupling tracks  and installed them in an O gauge tubular straight.  A good project and they work great.  They fit into the Rick Johnson rubber roadbed.

The downside is that out of 6 or 7 current production UCS tracks I could only find one that I could put on the main, the next best UCS is on a passing siding (GG-1's not allowed).  Postwar UCS tracks might be a solution, but they're about $25 each and there's no guarantee.

Please consider a roller change - Thanks!

Brady
« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 02:11:25 PM by Brady » Logged
Joe Satnik


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2009, 02:55:53 AM »

Dear Brady,

Are you coming off a curve or a straight when you hit the UCS?

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik
Logged

If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
Brady

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2009, 02:44:54 PM »

Joe

There are straights on both sides.   

Brady
Logged
Joe Satnik


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 10:55:21 PM »

Dear Brady,

You may have one or both of the following problems:

1. Cold/bad solder joint(s) between your loco's roller pickup arm(s) and its internal wiring. 

2. Cold/bad/broken solder joint(s) between your UCS's center rails and the magnet housing/terminal 3.

To test the first, somehow raise the center rail roller arms 1 at a time.  (Force a toothpick between the arm and housing, or tape the roller up?)  When the bad arm/pickup is low (normal position) the loco will run erratically or not at all.

To test for the second, disconnect the UCS from the tracks on either side of it.  Use an 0hm-meter set to RX1 to check for continuity between terminal 3 and the left center rail, then T. 3 and the right center rail. Wiggle the center rails near the magnet and watch for erratic/open circuit readings on the Ohm-meter.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik
Logged

If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
Joe Satnik


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2009, 02:00:39 PM »

Dear Brady,

You might also have loose/dirty center rail pins around your layout. 

For testing purposes, see that each isolated section (if insulated center rail pins are used) is fed only by one track power lock-on. 

If there is a loop, split the track on one side of its lock-on, then send your most reliable engine around the other direction until the engine stumbles or quits. 

This will happen after the loco's 2nd center rail pickup clears the bad joint.   

Repair the bad joint (a gentle squeeze with a pliers works well) and go til the next one, etc. til all are fixed. 

Tighten up the joint at the split, then re-connect it and any previously removed lock-ons.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik   
Logged

If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
Joe Satnik


View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2009, 12:40:59 PM »

If a Lionel UCS and its controller are in good shape and properly wired to each other,  your center roller should not short out. 

With no buttons pushed, the right 2nd and 4th rail should be open, and the left 2nd and 4th rail would only energize the electro-magnet (if touched by the center roller). 

If your track connections are good and your power pack has sufficient power, your train should only slow down a little if the energized center rollers touch the left 2nd or 4th rails. 

Thumbtack uncoulplers might pull down and inadvertantly uncouple running right to left. 

If you could get track AC Voltage and  AC current (Amps) readings when the engine is running 1.) over normal track and 2.) over the UCS track,  that would be most helpful.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik   

 

Logged

If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
3rail
Administrator


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2009, 03:16:39 PM »

Joe is correct only the magnet would be triggered.

On a perfect UCS the 4th and 5th rails should be slightly lower than the center rail and no contact would occur.  However, I have seen many UCS tracks with the same height rails and some even have the control rails higher.  On tubular track the center rail is always the highest rail due to the thickness of the insulator, but the UCS is molded plastic, so the height can vary.

If you do not locate the UCS directly attached to a curved track, the roller is not swinging out over the control rails and contact should not occur.

Regards,

3rail
Logged
DominicMazoch

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2009, 09:05:11 PM »

If you can find one, K-Line, before Lionel got the line, made an O-31 track with the O-27 type of electomagnic uncoupler.  That might bypass the shorting problem.
Logged
Brady

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2009, 12:40:11 PM »

Joe

Thank you for this tips, I think I need to start with some bench testing with the UCS tracks and a couple of my pickier Williams locomotives. 

I'm not using the stock UCS controller, I have the 4th and 5th rails wired through Lionel SC-2 switch and accessory controllers, they work very well for operatiing cars.  The magnets are not used.

3rail

I have  two UCS tracks on my layout, on both the 4th and 5th rails are (roughly)1/16" higher than the center rail.  I suspect the Lionel rollers pass between the 4th and 5th rails.  I have several more in a box, I need to take a look.

Since we're on the subject of UCS tracks, the height of the "button" that is in the center of the magnet varies;  some are almost flush, others stick up pretty high.  I swapped one "high button" UCS track out, if my 44 tonner went over it at speed it thumped, if it went over it slowly enough the loco got stuck.  A modern issue Lionel chicken car didn't care much for it either..

Dominic

I haven't seen one of those K-Line tracks in quite a while, so I picked up the O-27 version and made my own by cutting out the magnet/center rail and installing it into a section of O gauge track.  Works great.   I made two and wired them to a #90 Lionel pushbutton.



Thanks again to everyone

Brady

 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 02:19:54 PM by Brady » Logged
Joe Satnik


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2009, 11:41:03 AM »

Brady,

It's possible that your "coil core" can just be pressed further down into the coil. 

The assembly drawing shows a "core insulator"( small disc or washer) under the coil core. 

If the coil core can't be pressed down (near) flush, perhaps there is an extra insulator inside... I have no idea, however, how to extract the coil core to find out...

I suppose (?) you could build up the top of the coil with a plastic ring to make it more flush with the core

As far as wiring goes:

Caution, the Lionel repair manual wiring diagram is different (Coil high side to T4) than my UCS is wired (Coil high side to T2).  I'm sure the diagram is wrong and my UCS is correct.

Make sure your 4 wire flat cable is soft and flexible.  If the insulation is brittle or cracked anywhere, replace it.  (Black rubber 4 wire flat cable is commonly available from model train repair shops and websites, usually sold by the foot.)

UCS Terminal 1 (T1) is "ground" and connected to the outside rails, and wired to the bottom leaf (furthest away from the buttons) of the controller.

T2 is connected to the left slider rails, the high side of the coil, and wired to the 2nd leaf from the bottom of the controller. 

The low side of the coil is soldered to an outside rail under the UCS.

T3 is the metal mounting bracket for the coil, and is connected to the middle "power" rails.  It is wired to the 3rd leaf from the bottom in the controller. 

There is an insulating "button" between the 2nd and 3rd leaf under the "unload" button. 

T4 is connected to the right slider rails and is wired to the top (4th) leaf in the controller.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik     
Logged

If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
Brady

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2009, 11:27:03 AM »

A quick note.  At the World's Greatest Hobby show I picked up a  couple of 0-27 RCS tracks - the 4th an 5th rail blades on these tracks are not higher than the center rail. I probably won't install them on the current layout but I'll have them for the next one.

fwiw..

Brady Burdge
http://www.VirginianRailway.com
Logged
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!