Hey folks, Have recently put a PnP QSI Aristo chip+speaker into my bachmann mallet and have been very very very impressed with the sound output and control ... BUT ... When showing the locomotive's new features to my father he asked (this one doesn't have a firebox flicker?) that's when I noticed that under dcc my locomotives cab light + firebox flicker no longer work?
I am using a bachmann Dynamis set and have no idea why this would be??
The flicker works if I put the switch at DC track mode using a standard LGB 1amp controller but as soon as I put it back to DCC using the dynamis no joy .....
Any help would be great!!
It's not just the Mallet. The same thing happens with the QSI board in the K-27. It could just be a simple matter of programming the proper function to turn them on and off, but since I didn't do the programming on this one (nor do I have the manuals) I don't know how one would accomplish that. Any assistance would be welcome here as well.
Also, which CV do you program to what to tell the locomotive which way is forward, and which headlight is the front? The K-27 I've got here is programmed backwards. I've read through what QSI manuals are published online, and I'm still at a loss to figure it out. (Alas, the ones for this particular board are not online. (Again--if they are, please direct me.)
Later,
K
The current QSI decoder only supports the front and real headlight functions. The QSI decoder does not provide any connections or support for extra functions. When using the current QSI product you can only turn on and off the functions manually using the switches in the locomotive.
To achieve the proper direction and lighting with the QSI decoder you need to use the proper sound fille from QSI. This is a software load on their part, if not correct then you need to talk to QSI solutions.
Stan Ames
So there's no way you can have the firebox/cab light when using the QSI decoder? darn .....
Is it safe to run the locomotive in dcc mode and yet leave the cablight/firebox switch on DC ?
Interesting to know, Stan. Thanks. When you say it's a "sound file" thing, what does sound have to do with direction? From what I can tell, it's the value set to CV29 that controls forward/reverse orientation. I just can't figure out what it needs to be set to. I know I had to set it on a previous QSI install I did (non-socket). Without the instructions specifically for this product, I'm loathe to use values recommended in the manuals for the smaller scales.
Daniel, you shouldn't have any issues running the firebox and markers off of the DC switch setting. That's how I've got the lights set on the DCC-equipped K-27 I've got here right now, and they seem perfectly happy. I've done similar things with other installs, running the firebox lights straight off the incoming track voltage.
The DCC signal will freak out an Aristo Revolution running on track power, but for lights, smoke, etc., there shouldn't be any negatives.
Later,
K
Alas this particular QSI decoder does indeed not have support for functions other the front and rear headlight.
The best way to look at the switch is rather then
DCC, off, DC
think of if it as
switched from the socket, off, on.
Leaving the switch in the DC (or on) position simply turns that function on. It does not matter if you are in DC/DCC/or RC. If you want to the function to always be on set the switch to the DC position.
Kevin
The QSI decoder provides the user the ability to play with a ton of confugurations.
That is both a plus and a minus. The plus is that you can customize it to your hearts content. The downside is that some feel that the ability to customize makes the product complex.
The QSI sound file not only provides unique sounds, it also configures the decoder to that particular locomotive. This makes it much more plug and play and removes the need to perform any configuration changes.
If you desire to configure a decoder manually, you can set CV29 bit 1 to switch the motor direction. To switch the lights you can also remap the light functions using the function mappong table.
Stan Ames
Stan, what is the correct config file for the QSI in the Mallet? I didn't see anything speciic to Bachmann on their download page.
Peter.
Quote from: Peter O on November 14, 2009, 10:29:20 PM
Stan, what is the correct config file for the QSI in the Mallet? I didn't see anything speciic to Bachmann on their download page.
Peter.
Peter
Good question. I went to their site and could not find the sound file either. Its one of their sounds but I am not sure which one.
Called Tony and he said it will be on their site and clearly labeled in the next few days.
Stan
BTW, they posted the file numbers on the QSI web site:
http://www.qsisolutions.com/news/09/bachmann-special-sounds-111809.html (http://www.qsisolutions.com/news/09/bachmann-special-sounds-111809.html)
I'm led to believe--though I have not tried it personally--that you can buy accessory DCC decoders that would let you power the cab, firebox, and marker/class lights via DCC if you wanted to go that route. You'll have to pull the leads off the socket board and wire them directly to these accessory boards. Stan would be able to talk you through that.
I'm not sure how you'd do that with wireless DCC (G-wire/QSI). Any thoughts?
Later,
K
Quote from: StanAmes on November 14, 2009, 02:09:32 PM
If you desire to configure a decoder manually, you can set CV29 bit 1 to switch the motor direction. To switch the lights you can also remap the light functions using the function mapping table.
EUREKA! I got it Well, I've got it 95%.
Set CV29 to 7, and "forward" is now forward, and it supports analog DC should the owner ever want to run it that way.
The headlight issue was a bit more difficult to work out. With the QSI into the B'mann socket, it thinks the rear headlight is the front one; the front one the rear one. I tested this by programming the "dim" setting on the front headlight to 100%, and watched the rear light come on brightly. So, I programmed that light so that "dim" was 0%, meaning that when the QSI told it to go dim, it would actually turn off. So now the light only turns on in reverse.
The problem is that so far as I can tell, the QSI does not support a "dim" setting on the rear headlight--despite what the charts say. (It says something to the tune of "if 'dim' is not supported, the light is off.") So, I just programmed it so that it's always on full. Ideally, I'd have it programmed to be on full in neutral and forward, off in reverse, but I'm still trying to wade through the documentation to figure out how to accomplish that. For now, though, if I have need to turn the front headlight off, I just hit the "0" key (or the headlight button if so equipped) to do that.
If anyone wants to know the CV values for this, I'll go back and look them up. I messed with so many things during this process that I'm loathe to remember which ones ultimately did the trick. Stan, you'll be proud of me, though. It's starting to feel logical. I'm a little worried--too much more of this, and an HP calculator will start making sense to me, too. :P I'm going to have to spend a day looking at Jackson Pollock paintings just to reset my mind...
Later,
K
I knew there had to be a way to do it...
No, not the marker lights... Sorry. I believe that still requires a separate DCC board to control remotely.
The headlight problem I got licked.
I've got it programmed now to where the front headlight is dim while in neutral, on full when going forward, and off when going reverse. The rear headlight is dim in neutral only when the direction indicated is reverse, and on full when going in reverse. As soon as you stop and change your direction to forward, the rear light turns off.
CV 55.70.1 = 6
CV 55.73.1 = 100
Then set your dim value to suit. In my case, I set it so it's around half as bright (which is not necessarily half the total allowable value. It will depend on your lights.
CV 55.70.10 and CV 55.73.10 = 60
To program these,
CV 50 = the last number
CV 49 = the middle number
CV 55 = the value you want to program.
So, to program CV 55.70.10, you'd enter:
CV 50 = 10, CV 49 = 70, CV 55 = 60.
Note: CV 55.70.# by the book controls the front headlight, but the QSI/Bachmann socket configuration makes that value control the light on the tender. Likewise, CV 55.73.# by the book controls the rear light, but on the loco, it's the front one. I don't know if the 2-6-6-2 is backwards like the K-27 or not.
Note also that because of this reversal, the "neutral from forward" and "neutral from reverse" bits are similarly reversed.
Here's a link to QSI's programming manual I've been using as a reference.
http://www.qsisolutions.com/pdf/quantumdccrefmanual_4_5_0.pdf (http://www.qsisolutions.com/pdf/quantumdccrefmanual_4_5_0.pdf)
This is not specific to the Quantum/Aristo board, so there are lots of lighting control features that the board does not support.
The key to understanding all this mess is that the bit data sequences are actually 8-digit binary numbers which translate to the decimal values you enter for the CVs. Once you figure out the state of the lights at various settings, then you translate that to the 8-digit binary number, go to the chart in the end of the manual and figure out which decimal number that equates to.
I really wish we could convince Steve Jobs to design DCC programming interfaces... :D
Later,
K
Just a note.
The socket "standard" as far as motor polarity and lighting connections comes from Aristo. Sometimes motors are wired "backwards" in both Aristo and Bachmann with regards to the socket. Kevin found the basic control to correct the miswiring.
This is really common, unfortunately. Again, the problem is inconsistency of wiring in the locos, not a QSI problem.
The headlight thing is Bachmann, wired backwards. Otherwise, of course, all Aristo locos would be backwards. This seems to be a consistent problem in this loco, always backwards.
Again, DCC and QSI to the rescue to have the flexibility to handle these errors in assembly or design.
Moral: don't complain about all the CVs in a decoder, especially one with all these features, this extra "complexity" may save your butt in the future, like it did here.
One last bit of confusion: there is no separate "sound file". When you download firmware into a QSI, you are downloading an entire package, the control firmware and the specific sounds and settings you have selected. You can even customize some of the common CV values to different defaults, if you wish.
Well, it all seemed to end well, and Kevin got some of his first lessons in basic DCC and binary. Good for you Kevin, I'm happy to see you getting the hand of all this "DCC voodoo".
Regards, Greg
Greg
There is no mistake in design of the Bachmann locomotives in regards to headlight or motor direction.
AristoCraft, Bachmann Digitrax and QSI among others participated in the design of the socket specifications. In regards to the headlights there was a disagreement on which pin should be which headlight. Ultimately AristoCraft made the final decision on which pin should be for what headlight for future socket use. Bachmann locomotives use that convention.
All Bachmann locomotives with the socket have been consistent in this use.
The specifications which both Bachmann and AristoCraft approved are
http://www.tttrains.com/largescale/Topic%200707092%20Large%20Scale%20Plug-socket.pdf (http://www.tttrains.com/largescale/Topic%200707092%20Large%20Scale%20Plug-socket.pdf)
The only subsequent change to this draft was to make the chuff pin active low rather then active high. Tne K27 which was produced prior to this change has a chuff as active high. All subsequent Bachmann locomotives with the socket use the chuff low convention.
Stan Ames
So Stan, since the headlight and rear light work correctly in an Aristo, how do you explain them working incorrectly in Kevin's K-27? No history lesson needed here, it can ONLY be that the K27 is wired differently.
The Aristo socket is the standard now, a de-facto standard, the wiring of it existing long before any Bachmann loco had a socket.
The QSI was designed to meet this standard.
If the Bachmann is not the same (which is true unless Kevin is dead wrong), then, the Bachmann product does not meet the existing standard.
You cannot come in 10 years later and say there is a NEW standard! Will Lewis Polk tell you all of his sockets are now wired backwards? I think not.
Regards, Greg
p.s. putting the chuff on pins already defined pins was not smart, you have an entire second connector to use, go there. Don't fight history, find how to co-exist with it.
Greg
If ever life was so simple. For questions on the legacy of the socket please open a dialogue with Lewis at AristoCraft. Alas up to the time that we all collectively defined the pin layout there was no consistent use from one locomotive to another. Some locomotives did it one way some the other. Some manufacturers of after market products did it one way and some the other. Thus there is no right and wrong just one way and the other. And also in the past some pins have been used in various undocumted ways. Such is life when evolving an existing design.
In cases of inconsistent use Lewis was provided the opertunity to define the use for the future.
Most now live with the inconsistencies which are well known to the designers. QSI for example has tailored its sound files to the way the actual locomotive is wired. Aristocraft has a simple setting for the light and motor direction.
For the future indeed it would be beneficial for all to use a single industry wide concensus. Till then I believe Bachmann will consistanntly use in its locomotives what the team came up with several years back.
Stan Ames
Both the Bachmann motor outputs AND lighting circuits ARE wired back to front when compared to the AristoCraft sockets.
I believe Bachmann have it correct and all the AristoCraft sockets are back to front.
It actually doesn't matter very much as both motor and direction lighting can be set to suit.
Arguing is pointless, I will do a test to show what I say and will post on youtube for you.
All I am saying is that the connections on the pins in the K are backwards from the Aristo.
So who is the "standard", tens of thousands of Aristo locos over the years, or the way the K is wired?
Again, ONLY talking about the headlight and backup light.
Enough for now...
Greg
Tony and Stan maintain that Bachmann is right and Aristo is wrong, and Stan entreated me to call Tony Parisi at QSI (like I don't already talk to him once a week!)
QSI says Bachmann is wired differently from Aristo:
http://www.qsisolutions.com/news/09/bachmann-special-sounds-111809.html (http://www.qsisolutions.com/news/09/bachmann-special-sounds-111809.html)
All I have said is that Aristo created and used the socket long ago. Finding an old scrap of paper that is different does not remove the fact that there are tens of thousands of Aristo sockets wired a particular way. That is the de-facto standard. If you were to make a product to work in the socket, would you pick thousands or tens of thousands.
But, I'll still do the youtube video... just have not had time...
(this is really silly if you think about it).
Regards, Greg
Actually, unless I am mistaken, the AristoCraft socket was a co-design with Digitrax and then AC got their version back to front when they used them in their locos.
I believe the Bachmann design is faithful to the original which makes them correct and AC wrong.
No matter how many thousands AC have made.
It may be a de-facto standard but that does not make them correct.