Hopefully, the picture comes thru......I would love to see Bachmann consider bringing out a model of the California and Western #45. I feel that this deminuative 2-8-2 would fit right in with the other On30 engines in the Bachmann roundhouse.
(http://www.cable-car-guy.com/ptrain/images/skunk_45_ftbragg_200607_002)
YummY 8)
California #45 is a standard gauge locomotive. I have seen a locomotive weight for it given as 234,000 lbs, which would make it larger them any USA narrow gauge 2-8-2. (D&RGW K 36 is 187,100 lbs, and that is about as big as they came)
Hamish
MY EYES, THEY BURN!!!! NEW PAINT SCHEME PLEASE! Lovley looking engine other than the eye sore red paint scheme and fake dimond stack. I like the engines main design because it almost looks as if it could be bashed into a EBT engine or a WPY engine.
Rock On!
Dusten
P.S
Sorry if I have offended anyone with the remark above
Hamish,
I know the 45 is standard gauge, but I still think it would be great in On30. Heck, if many of the narrow gauge engines from Colorado were orginally being built for standard gauge and ended up as narrow gauge, hence the outside frames, then Bachmann could do the same thing, but just leave it inside framed.
Dusten - I am not sure if you know this, but Deerfield River Laser has announced they are about to produce caboose kits for your favorite railroad.
Actually, Sumpter Valley 19 would be a good candidate for On30.
http://wasteam.railfan.net/svrr/imgh26c.jpg
Spoked tender wheels, too!
Rusty
19 would make a great On30 2-8-2, as it could include the parts to make it in its WP&Y condition, which would please the logging modellers: http://narrowmind.railfan.net/WPYR/late-steam/80-81/SV19b.jpg (http://narrowmind.railfan.net/WPYR/late-steam/80-81/SV19b.jpg)
IMHO, a 2-8-2 is likely to be to big for my and many other On30 layouts, although I liked the look of the recent 4-6-0; I just couldn't get one because it would rarely run and sit in a siding most of the time because it is just so big! So I would much rather have a tank engine or 2-6-2 than a massive 2-8-2.
However, if Bachmann makes 19 with an option of making it like the picture above, I may thing twice. ;)
I agree.....19 is a better candidate than 45, I withdraw my nomination.
I have my fair share of problems with the 4-6-0. The lead truck design from bachmann in my opinion is a stupid one. The bar attaching to the frame acts as a lever, throwing the engine off track as it comes down from a grade, or a small hill. I wish Bachmann would have coppied their big hauler design on the attachment of the lead truck. I had to use a spring from a pen to keep the truck on the ground and with out derailing. I attached it on the screw of the truck and bar.
Bob
Yes I am aware of the ET&WNC Caboose from Deerfeild. I was going to purchase a EBT one at first lol. ;D
I would much rather see a EBT 2-8-2 than the WPY 190 class, all though the 70 class WPY 2-8-2 would be nice though
Rock On!
Dusten
An Americanized version of Argentina's Old Patagonian Express 2-8-2s would be nice.
Also, I hope that Bachmann would find it worth its while to produce one of the little Beyer-Garretts formerly used in South Africa and now on the Welash Highland Railway.
We had a nice thread a while back on small Beyer-Garretts, and I think Bachmann may actually be interested in doing one someday. In addition to the Welsh Highland Ry, there is also one operating on a private estate in Texas, here in the US.
I'm sure Bachmann will eventually make a Mikado, but in the mean time I was looking for a D&RGW K-xx 2-8-2 from MMI.
I can't find anyone who sells them new online, apart from second hand on ebay.
I know they are not readily available, but occasionally they make some, & I thought I'd put in an order, if I could find where.
Of course if Bachmann made one, I'll take two please.
Try Southwest Narrow Gauge. They are a MMI Dealer and have some of the die-cast K-class locomotives in stock I believe.
Here is the link:
http://i-sng.com/ (http://i-sng.com/)
Thanks for the info. It's time to give the credit card a sound thrashing at Southwest.
I don't know why some of the larger retailers don't sell them, like Trainworld & ModelTrainStuff. When I approached Trainworld they didn't even know PSC & MMI existed.
Thanks again.
Cheers.
Mark
Quote from: kcsivils1 on March 25, 2012, 07:25:41 PM
Try Southwest Narrow Gauge. They are a MMI Dealer and have some of the die-cast K-class locomotives in stock I believe.
Here is the link:
http://i-sng.com/ (http://i-sng.com/)
Outfits like those you mentioned typically deal in higher-volume stock that can support some discount. The small runs of minor scale items really doesn't fit into their marketing scheme.
What would be wrong with making a EBT 2-8-2?
Royce
Quote from: Royce Wilson on March 28, 2012, 07:50:59 PM
What would be wrong with making a EBT 2-8-2?
Royce
Size. Being a 3' gauge prototype, it's a big loco, even bigger than the ET&WNC 4-6-0. A smaller loco, like a logging 2-6-2, would be more in keeping with the rest of Bachmann's On30 line.
Bill in FL
Royce,
While I TOTALLY support your idea of an EBT mike being offered in On30, I think we have to look at marketing of the product. One of the biggest drawbacks, as stated, would be the size. Now, with that fact in mind, that did not stop MMI from offering a variety of Colorado 2-8-2s in both On3 and On30. I have two of them by the way and are GREAT engines.
The next problem is that the EBT still seems to be a great unknown except for the very eastern part of this country.
The engines are not really too big, if, and I repeat, if you intend to use On30 as a poor man's On3 which is what I do. The other problem would be the cost. In the latest issue of Model Railroad News, there is page that shows four new reefers being offered from Bachmann. If these new reefers are being offered at $69.99 can you imagine what a 2-8-2 might cost? Sorry Bachmann, but you are pricing out of your market.
Royce, I am with you! What is wrong with a 2-8-2? Size? If 0n30 is a poor man's 0n3,Why can't we have "large" engines as well as small ones? The D&RGW had cars of 30ft or more,Tweetsie,36ft, plus the coaches many of these roads had were 40ft or more! Yes ,they were narrow gauge, but many of these roads(EBT WP&Y,etc,) were heavy duty roads even for narrow gauge! That brings me back to a larger shay for the timber roads. This scale is growing, and I would like to think there is room for many sizes. ;) Dwayne Calloway
Quote from: ebtbob on March 30, 2012, 09:25:10 AMIn the latest issue of Model Railroad News, there is page that shows four new reefers being offered from Bachmann. If these new reefers are being offered at $69.99 can you imagine what a 2-8-2 might cost? Sorry Bachmann, but you are pricing out of your market.
Yup. I think Bachmann has a problem when On3 ready-to-run (of higher quality -- and multiple road numbers, imagine that!) can be had cheaper than On30. I know Bachmann has a near monopoly on the On30 market, but $70?
That said, a 2-8-2 would be a welcome addition. I know some guys like the small tea-kettle stuff, but for me, bigger is better! (Hint: offer it in On3 as well to broaden the market appeal and spread the tooling costs over more units!)
Scott
I cannot find any of the photographs of these two locomotives on line where I could post them here.
In the book The Locomotives Baldwin Built there are photographs of a pair of 2-foot gauge 2-8-2s. One was built for export to India and has a male worker standing next to it as a means of judging size. The caption is "the perfect locomotive for railfans.
The other 2-8-2 was a wood burner with a big stack and longish wheelbase. Built for a Central or South American line. Really nice looking locomotive as well.
Neither is "large" like a 3-foot gauge locomotive, but both would make great 30-inch gauge models.
Will continue to search for photos of these. If you have the book you can check the locomotives out yourself.
Quote from: ebtbob on March 30, 2012, 09:25:10 AM
Royce,
...One of the biggest drawbacks, as stated, would be the size. Now, with that fact in mind, that did not stop MMI from offering a variety of Colorado 2-8-2s in both On3 and On30. I have two of them by the way and are GREAT engines.
I am now the proud owner of an MMI K-27 2-8-2.
Bachmann, if you're reading this, you should make this loco. If it isn't in the pipeline already, get a bigger pipe.
The size & weight of this behemoth as it lumbers magnificently down the track, accentuating every bit of uneven track - just like the real thing.
Maybe one day I will pick up a K-27. I do own a On3 Sunset C&S/RGS 74 and the size makes engine a thing of beauty! I love tea kettles , but large engines pull more.
Royce
I want one just to have one. It won't work on some of my curves, but just want one sitting in the yard
If you want an inside-frame Onx 2-8-2, look for a Sunset EBT 16--they didn't sell well so might still be around fairly reasonable. gj
Glenn,
Just curious as to why the Sunset EBT #16 was a poor seller. Did Sunset do any of the other EBT mikes and how did they sell?
To no offense to all ya'll western style modelers, but the EBT Mike is perfect for what we need. I'm sorry to say, but all I hear is, K-27s and western style this and that. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the western stuff, but my goodness, it gets to become annoying after a bit.
forgive my rant.
The Ebt mike is a good choice because it will be the 1st EBT model made by Bachmann, and could be universal, with the WPY, and a few railroads out west I do know of that had that style of engine. I personally would like to see EBT 14, small, and humble enough to take the radius's. I'm pretty sure you could make it outside framed from one of the 2-8-0s. MMI already sells the K class engines, though at a price that is too high, for I think it's worth. No sound no buy.
Rock On!
Dusten
Check this engine out. http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,215183
Royce W ;D
haha yay! I love my tea kettles.
#25--EBT Bob--I think that Mort Mann overestimated the market for the EBT 16, which left him with a lot of unsold models--we got a couiple of estras from him for the Pscific project--and of courseif he had a lot of unsold 16's he wouldn't be likely to build more.
with 48" drivers there weren't any candidates for other prototype conversions like SV and WP&Y. gj
There were a few issues with the Sunset EBT Mikes. First, the detail was a bit generic - it didn't quite match any of the 3 locos. All three had minor differences. Second, on some models the valve gear was not assembled correctly and would bind up. Third, all of the drivers were flanged, which limited the minimum radius. The prototypes have blind center drivers. Mine had no issues with the valve gear, and because I lettered it for my private road I didn't worry about the detail discrepancies. I did take the two driver sets, chucked them in the Unimat, and turned off the flanges so the engine now easily negotiates 40" curves.
EBTNUT,
WOW.....40 inch radius with blind drivers. I could never be able to use an engine that big, needing that type radius. My two K27s from MMI easily negotiate 22 inch radius. Fortunately, they really do not have to do that tight a radius on my On30 railroad, but I have tested them on my HO railroad to find the radius minimum.
Bob: As I noted, the loco now easily passes around 40" curves, which is what I established as a minimum for my main line way back when. I believe it will probably go around a tighter curve than that, though there then may become issues with the pilot truck wheels rubbing the back of the cylinders. Note also that the MMI models were specifically designed to pass tighter curves, especially since they were done in both On30 and On3.
I would use caution removing flanges from drivers. If the drivers are sprung the problems can come up when coming out of curves--the drivers are forced off the rail head and all looks fine until the loco comes out of that curve--now the blind drivers are below the rail head, and if they cannot find the rail head, they derail. This can be an expensive lesson. Better way to gain a bit tighter radius is to add some lateral motion to the last driver set on inside-frame locos, on the middle drivers with outside frames. I bought some expensive drivers--they wwere available. On an older model they may not be--leaving you with a "park display" loco. gj
Glenn: You are right about the blind drivers with sprung mechanisms. I did in fact have to insert a "keeper" plate to keep the drivers from dropping behind the railhead. On the prototype, the blind driver tires are about 1 1/2 to 2 inches wider than the flanged tires to deal with this exact problem. The MMI C-19's in On3 that came out about 2 years ago have the extra-wide blind tires. This solves the drop-down problem, but the extra width tends to bridge over the turnout points and create a short. I'm thinking of trying some Bullfrog Snot on the back half of the blind drivers to see if that solves the issue.
I don't know how the BFS is as an insulator--if you can find the old PFM black lacquer they used with sound systems--or "Red Glyptol" lacquer from electronics store will be better. gj
I hate to say this, but this thread illustrates the problems that Bachmann would have selling "Big Engine" 2-8-2s like the EBT mikes and the larger D&RGW K's (As well as the Oahu Railway and Land Co's four ALCO 2-8-2s). Most of us, especially those of us who belong to such modular clubs as the Texas Outlaws and the Florida Renegades, don't have the wide curves to run these models.
I think that an Americanized version of Argentina's Baldwin-built Patagonian 2-8-2s would be a better choice size-wise, but I don't know how many other On30 folks would buy them. I would, but then again, I'm not closely following prototype accuracy and I'm not that provincial about "foreign" power (Even power built in the US and Canada!) as many of the old-time steam-heads were and many modelers still are.
QuoteI'm not closely following prototype accuracy
A-Ha!
There is the exact reason why I ditched HO scale and took up On30!! ;D ;D
John
:)
How about EBT #11 2-6-2. It's about time we had some EBT locomotives running around, after all we have all the others from the more major lines. ET&WNC 4-6-0, C&S 2-6-0, SRRL 2-4-4, two unknown roads of the 4-4-0s and 2-6-6-2. I'd really like to have a 8-18c 4-4-0 though haha. But anywho, EBT #11 would be perfect.
Rock On!
Dusten