Bachmann Online Forum

Discussion Boards => N => Topic started by: skipgear on July 18, 2010, 09:01:42 PM

Title: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: skipgear on July 18, 2010, 09:01:42 PM
Thank you for listening to many, many, many customer requests for the Ten Wheeler. It looks like it will be a nice loco. Our shop already has orders for 4 of them since they were announced on Friday.

One comment that seems to keep coming up is the size of the tender. For me it doesn't really matter because the loco matches nothing B&O so I will be in full kitbash mode to put one of these to use. If the standard USRA tender is going to be the tender used on the loco, many will be disapointed. From most of the pictures I have looked at over the weekend, a straight sided body designed to fit the slope back tender chassis would be the best answer. If keeping cost down and using existing tooling is a factor, at least swaping to the short USRA tender could be considered.
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: the Bach-man on July 18, 2010, 11:31:23 PM
Dear Skip,
The tender is needed to fit the decoder.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: Will_Annand on July 19, 2010, 08:01:02 AM
The new series decoders from NCE, Digitrax and Lenz are really small.

Size: 0.34" x 0.56" x 0.125" or less.

They will fit in your slopeback tenders.
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: David Leonard on July 19, 2010, 09:16:07 AM
Is the decoder that's used in the 44T small enough? Bachmann uses their own decoders, as I understand it, and other brands are not options. However, I agree with calls for a smaller tender. Here's the shell of a Model Power 2-6-0 tender on the Bachmann Spectrum slopeback chassis.  Bachmann could use the same chassis and would just have to tool a new shell.

(http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq175/nscalepennsyguy/DSC_1526.jpg?t=1279545042)
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: dtpowell on July 19, 2010, 10:14:46 AM
For a 4-6-0 I would have preferred a larger more modern loco the tender being used. Then I remembered my Athearn 60 ft open platform coaches need a decent loco. Thinking the USRA tender in the prototype was only a temporary for the show. I started to get excited. But if this is the actual configuration. I fear Bachmann may have lost me as a buyer of this loco. As it stands. This loco looks odd. I'll need to see a prototype first.

BTW...The PRR K4's tender would have plenty of room for a decoder!  ;D
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: Williamson on July 19, 2010, 11:08:47 AM
I agree that the USRA medium tender looks out of place with the 4-6-0. While it is possible that some of these late in life received a "bumped" USRA tender, for most of their lives they would have been mated to someting smaller.

Even this (DCC ready) tender from Bachmann would be much better:

(http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products/images/uploads/89551.jpg)

Come on Bach-man!

Mark
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: Rutland1952 on July 19, 2010, 03:13:03 PM
Let me add my congratulations as well. I model the Rutland and hope that a subsequent version is more modern and has a high boiler with a headlight mounted in the center of the door to the boiler. The last 4-6-0 with a high headlight left service ibn the early 1930's, so there's no fit.
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: skipgear on July 19, 2010, 06:51:39 PM
I went down to the workbench and checked out my Short USRA. There is an issue using the existing lightboard. The lightboard as designed, eats up a ton of space, there is barely room for a micro decoder. Removing or cutting down the lightboard, leaves room to spare for the standard decoder.

If the loco is going to be DCC/DC, there is no reason for the lightboard. A decoder could have been made to mount in place of the USRA Short lightboard very easily. It seems it would be easier to make one part than to have to solder two existing parts together then, install them in the tender. I would rather this loco take a little longer than to take shortcuts and stick the oversize tender on the back of it. Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.

Either way, I am still buying one but I will have to buy a short tender to go with it now. I think we still have a slope back or Short USRA on the shelf at the shop. Anybody want to buy a Standard USRA tender when these come in? I am over-flowing with them.

Here is one more reason not to let the Spectrum Tenders run out of stock. I forsee a bunch of shorties being sold once these arrive.
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: skipgear on July 20, 2010, 09:02:20 AM
More comments on the shorty....

The short USRA does have the connection for the cable, just not the room for the stock decoder along with the cable connection...

(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/1263/USRA_Short_Apart.jpg)

Many of the people that want a smaller tender could care less if it had DCC or not. Those that are serious about DCC will swap out the decoder anyhow for one with more features. For those that want the smaller tender, stick this one on in 5 minutes and be happy. Heck, Bachmann could sell it with this tender and advertise it as DCC ready and more people would be happy with this combination.

The only tender that won't connect directly to the new locos with the cable is the slope back, which would be terribly wrong for this loco anyhow.
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: Will_Annand on July 25, 2010, 08:52:14 AM
Quote from: skipgear on July 19, 2010, 06:51:39 PM
Either way, I am still buying one but I will have to buy a short tender to go with it now. I think we still have a slope back or Short USRA on the shelf at the shop. Anybody want to buy a Standard USRA tender when these come in? I am over-flowing with them.

Here is one more reason not to let the Spectrum Tenders run out of stock. I forsee a bunch of shorties being sold once these arrive.

Now there is an idea right from the marketing room's conference table.

Supply the loco with a tender that is not correct and the customers will buy the correct one separately.

Sure hope Bachmann does not think like that.
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: Williamson on July 26, 2010, 10:55:06 AM
Quote from: Will_Annand on July 25, 2010, 08:52:14 AM
Quote from: skipgear on July 19, 2010, 06:51:39 PM
Either way, I am still buying one but I will have to buy a short tender to go with it now. I think we still have a slope back or Short USRA on the shelf at the shop. Anybody want to buy a Standard USRA tender when these come in? I am over-flowing with them.

Here is one more reason not to let the Spectrum Tenders run out of stock. I forsee a bunch of shorties being sold once these arrive.

Now there is an idea right from the marketing room's conference table.

Supply the loco with a tender that is not correct and the customers will buy the correct one separately.

Sure hope Bachmann does not think like that.

Haha! ;D

I hope not too. In my case it translates into NO SALE.

I skipped buying the Heavy USRA 4-8-2 Mountain (even though N&W was one of the two roads that received these under the USRA) for the same reason - Bachmann put the wrong tender on it. ::)

My pockets are simply not deep enough to support this kind of thing (the 4-8-2's MSRP was $250, and now you want me to buy another tender on top of this?)

Mark
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: the Bach-man on July 26, 2010, 11:36:45 PM
Dear All,
As I stated previously, the tender is the smallest that will accept out decoder.
We do have a smaller DCC ready tender available, but you'll have to get a smaller decoder than we make.
Incidentally. the tenders were discontinued because sales did not support them. Obviously, if sales were good, they would not have been discontinued.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: Williamson on July 27, 2010, 01:41:46 PM
Quote from: the Bach-man on July 26, 2010, 11:36:45 PM
Incidentally. the tenders were discontinued because sales did not support them. Obviously, if sales were good, they would not have been discontinued.
Have fun!
the Bach-man

That's crap news about the tenders. I bought some for some projects - lucky I did. Most are sold out at MB Kleins. I guess some stores have tons of them? ??? ??? ???

Mark
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: dtpowell on July 27, 2010, 07:10:16 PM
I regret to say Bachmann I think the Ten wheeler may go the same way as the small tender. The older 4-6-0 connected to a larger more modern tender just to have DCC doesn't work for me. I'm only one person with a big mouth, but I don't think I'm alone. The loco is too odd for my liking. I can only hope Bachmann is working on something that WILL be popular like the K-4, a NYC J1, 3a Hudson, or maybe a 2-6-6-6 Allegheny. Best of luck with the 4-6-0.
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: skipgear on July 27, 2010, 09:54:46 PM
Quote from: the Bach-man on July 26, 2010, 11:36:45 PM
Dear All,
Incidentally. the tenders were discontinued because sales did not support them. Obviously, if sales were good, they would not have been discontinued.
Have fun!
the Bach-man

We sold through the large vanderbilt and shorter tenders pretty quick because they were unique. The standard USRA and long USRA stagnated because most loco's already come with one of those tenders behind them. Please don't base slow sales on the tenders that really didn't have a market to begin with. I'm reordering short tenders again this week for our shop, hopefully to have them in stock and ready for the 4-6-0's to arrive. I still would like to see the VC12 tender from the H4 available seperately. I did some horse trading to get one for myself off of a loco that was getting kitbashed and needed the long USRA tender. I was happy to trade a long USRA to get the VC12.

Maybe the slow sales of the standard USRA is one of the reasons to use it on the 4-6-0, plenty of extra stock to use up.

There have been quite a few articles written and forum posts about swaping tenders. I've written a few myself for the Ntrak magazines. I'm trying to help sales to keep them alive. Hanging one of the new tenders on the back of the 0-6-0 radically improves it's performance.
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: dtpowell on July 28, 2010, 06:02:42 AM
I don't think I should need to consider swapping out a tender on a new locomotive. The manufacture should have done it right from the start. I agree with Williamson.
These loco's are too expensive a commodity to have to FIX the manufactures shortcomings! Do it right the first time or don't do it!
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: skipgear on July 28, 2010, 09:42:34 AM
Bachmann is counting on the fact that most people won't care or know the difference in the tenders. Unfortunately, that is probably very true.

We have waited so long for a 4-6-0 that I will take what I can get and adjust it to my needs. As the title states, I am happy to have the loco available, irregardless of the tender offered. Even if it had a smaller tender on it, I would probably be changing it anyhow because Bachmann doesn't offer a tender without an extended coal bunker. Most of the 4-6-0's on the B&O had straight side tenders so that is what I will create.

Tenders are easy to build as long as you have a floor with a pick up system to work with. This tender was scratch built over a couple of weekends using a Trix tender floor, Bachmann trucks and styrene.

(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/2211/Finished_Paint_3.JPG) (http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/129464)

(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/2211/Tender_Contruction_6.jpg) (http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/128762)
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: David Leonard on July 28, 2010, 11:20:54 AM
Tony, how did you make the little "lips" on the tops of the bunker sides? I might try putting bunker extensions on some model tenders, if I could figure that out.
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: skipgear on July 28, 2010, 05:25:30 PM
It's just a thin strip of styrene glued to the edge of the sheet....

__  <- Styrene Strip .005 x .020 or so.
||
||

I used a piece a little wider than I needed then sanded it back to get the depth I needed on the rib.
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: jake_iv on August 12, 2010, 08:58:28 AM
I missed the announcement and can't locate a photo. Can someone steer me to a photo.  Contrary to some of the posts here, many shortline and branch line roads ran the ten wheeler well into the 50's .  The Maryland and Pennsylvania RR had operating 0-6-0, 4-4-0, 4-6-0 and 2-8-0 locos in service up until the day that they ceased operations in Maryland.  They also operated SW, NW2 and GP7 locos.  The steamers all wore boiler top headlamps and some were super heater equipped.  Some tourist roads continue to operate 10 wheelers.  In fact, Canadian Pacific 4-6-0 #972 was operating excursion trains on Ma & Pa trackage in the 1970s.  These units all used short to medium USRA type tenders as befitted a railroad with less than 100 miles of trackage.

If Bachmann does have a 4-6-0 10 wheeler in the pipeline I for one will have to have it and the DCC tender will go to another loco and be replaced by a medium or short USRA tender.  Actually, a tender from the 2-6-2 could be used as a base unit and there are scads of them on eBay and at swap meets
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: skipgear on August 12, 2010, 09:16:03 AM
You can find an early pre-production shot in their NMRA announcements -

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/2010_NMRA.pdf

page 3
Title: Re: A big thanks for the Ten Wheeler! Smaller tender please!!!!
Post by: jake_iv on August 14, 2010, 09:24:26 AM
Thank you for the link to the NMRA announcements. 
    I have seen some "carping" about the tender but since I am an ole man I don't mind kit bashing to get the look that I want.  Off the top of my head - the Athearn/Roundhouse small steam tender body can be adapted; the Bachmann 4-4-0 and short USRA tenders are appropiate;  the model Power steam tender body will work for shorter tenders.  All of these can be readily found on the web and at swap meets.  With over 600 shortlines and several hundred abandoned lines since 1930 no manufacturer can produce everything to satisfy everyone!   This new 4-6-0 with a little help will round out my stable of motive power for the Ma & Pa between 1910 and 1955. 
   The Bach 4-4-0 for the Baltimore and Leheigh engines that started the M & P, the MP 4-4-0 for the "new" Americans that lasted until the50's, the Athearn 2-8-0 for the early consolidations; the Bach Baldwin 2-8-0 for the "late" (1910) consolidations; the Bach 0-6-0 for the switchers; the Bach doodle bugs for #61 & #62; the Bach or Atlas GP7/9; Kato NW2 and Life Like SW8's & 9's and now the Bach 4-6-0 retendered.  So I am pretty satisfied - that is better than I could do in HO scale.  The only thing that I lack in N scale is a reasonable running and looking 0-4-0 and a good 4 wheel, 4 window caboose.
caboose.