Hello Guys,Gals........
Does anyone know how many pieces of free rolling frieght cars can a williams 2-8-4 berkshire can pull ? I wondered becasue I just have 4 williams 60 foot madsions and a boxcar. My layout is a TINY 4 by 8 with a oval and 3 switches LOL. any opinions, anyone ?
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Hey, Tiff.
From a December 2001 CTT review by Bob Keller:
"This engine is fun to operate. Our low-speed test clocked the steamer at 37.4 scale mph and we measured a high-end speed of 147.4 scale mph. The traction tire-equipped engine's drawbar pull is 1 pound, 1.7 ounces, or roughly equal to 53 modern, free-rolling cars.
Getting started with our 25-car mixed make and vintage test train, the Berk spun its drivers but a nudge of the cab got it rolling. The train rounded the layout without fail for hours. With this heavy load in tow, we clocked the Berk at 111.1 scale mph at 18 volts."
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Edit: Corrected CTT review date from 2006 to December 2001
The longest I could pull with mine was 37 cars.Then they started to pull off on the curves.
Hello Mr. Joe satnik..........
OH thank you so much !!!!!!!!!! i was looking for information like that about the williams berkshire. you are very helpful !!!! BIG SMILE.
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Hello rOgruth........
wow 37 cars with single williams berkshire !!! that is better than i expected.
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
hello Mr. Satnik......
would you happen to have same information like the berkshire about the williams sd-45's in the CTT ?
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
I've run 6 15" AL cars behind an SD90MAC!
Hello DominicMazoch........
my goodness !!, 6 of those 15 inch cars, that must be looooooong train !!! i only have room for least 90 inch train oh well.
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Dear Tifffany,
I didn't see a review for the SD-45 on the (subscriber-only portion of the) CTT website.
The Williams SD-90 was reviewed though, and that's pretty similar to the SD-45 (dual 3 axle power trucks with traction tires).
From Bob Keller's Williams SD-90 review (December 1999 CTT):
"On the test track the engine delivered smooth, quiet performance. Conducting the average speed tests, the SD90MAC performed well, with a low end speed of 17.7 scale mph and a high-end average of 155 scale mph.
The 4.8 pound engine easily hauled our 20-car test train and never seemed to tire or get noticeably warm. We measured 3.3 pounds of drawbar pull from this engine, which roughly equals more than 190 (that's 1-9-0) modern, free-rolling pieces of rolling stock on straight and level track."
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Hello Mr. Satnik............
my goodness !! 190 freight cars ? i will never have that many but least 8. and even 8 cars is plenty for my tiny layout lol. i guess williams 6 axle diesels are stump pullers offen more than steamers ?
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Don't know what a Berkshire 2-8-4 can pull but an older the older Williams(pre-Bachmann) S-2 Pennsy steam engine I have can pull about 27 Lionel post war hopper or gondola cars behind it before it derails on my 042 curves. I didn't have that many modern freight cars to use with the S-2 steam engine.
Also I have three Williams SD-45's and they have differant wheel designs. The one with traction tires does best as for pulling but can't handle any Lionel add-on track(145C contact for highway crossing lights) accessories, as it has only two sets of metal wheels on each truck assembly and one set of plastic wheels, stops cold at the accessory contact. My SD-45 with all metal wheels(no traction tires doesn't pull as many freight cars but doesn't get stuck anywhere either.
Lee F.
One motor vs. two?
Difference in weight?
More weight on traction tires?
3rail would know.
(3.3 pounds of pull..holy cow..I suppose you could measure it with a fishing scale..)
Joe
With the right mixture of cars and being careful about placement,I have been able to pull 40 + cars with any of my Williams locos.
By rewiring the motors in the locos in series instead of parallel,the speeds canbe lowered.
Understand that this wiring voids the WBB warranty.
The Sd45 and 90's have the same type of motors and trucks. the 45 seems"heavier" to me, though. But I do run the UP Katy 90 with 6 AL Texas Specail cars with the Lionel 2245 "B" unit. If L can come up with a NYC Superliner set with a 90 Mac, I can make my own TS set.
Anyway, I have figured out the two reds on the Katy. One red shade is pass, the other is freight.
I have three Williams SD-45's and have found that through the years Williams made these with differant weight factors, and with dual motors.
One of my SD-45's is lighter in weight but has traction tires, cab # 4656 a Pennsy SD-45. Another SD-45, cab # 7893 Reading Lines, has dual motors but has all three axles made of metal without traction tires and it weighs about a half pound or more than the Pennsy SD-45.
The newer SD-45's have plastic wheels for the third or blind flange set of wheels, also have traction tires. This set-up won't work with some accessory activation devices as the outside rail power is broken when the SD-45 goes over an activation device. What I have done is to double head my powered SD-45's after I install a wire harness between the two engines to keep constant power to both engines.
Lee F.
hello phillyreading...
I guess mine is the latest sd-45 (made in 2007) with the traction tires and last axle (blind) is plastic, the cab # 5622 santa fe. it is good idea to wire 2 engines together for doubleheading. did i read you correct that the older ones have metal blind wheel on the last axle ?
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Tiffany,
We did use metal blind wheels on this truck in the early production runs. We found that we had some problems with them shorting on some switch tracks, so we changed to plastic to solve this problem.
Regards,
3rail
Hello 3rail...
you are right, the metal blind wheels DOES short out on the lionel fastrack switches. i had lionel trainmaster that had metal blind wheels and it shorts out on the switches. then i bought a williams sd-45 and it has the plastic blind wheels and its no longer a problem, i am glad they put plastic ones this time (smart move) I run my sd-45 on lionel fastrack switches no problems at all. SMILE. its too bad that you dont have a williams santa fe caboose as i been trying to find one and i gave up and bought a MTH railking santa fe caboose. whats new for williams 2011?
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Quote from: 3rail on September 21, 2010, 06:15:33 PM
Tiffany,
We did use metal blind wheels on this truck in the early production runs. We found that we had some problems with them shorting on some switch tracks, so we changed to platsic to solve this problem.
Regards,
3rail
I have not had any problems with the three metal axles on my SD-45 and I am thinking of changing my newer SD-45's over to metal axles if I can get them or cut down some old F-7 wheels.
Apperantly Fastrac must be the only system to have a problem with the metal wheels.
Lee F.
hello Phillyreading......
that is interesting, but with my fixed income i am stuck with fastrack. what other trackage did you use that didnt have a problem with metal blind wheels shorting out ? i was thinking of using tube type williams track and run the trains on the carpet as my husband and i live in 850 sq apt.
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Tiffany,
I am using tubalar Lionel and Gargraves switches, mainly 042 with some 027 track for the upper level.
I tried using Fastrac but it got too expensive and it also got dirty too quick on the tops of the rails for me. Never had Fastrac switches, so I can't comment except to say the switches are super($100.00 a piece, $200.00 a pair) expensive!
Lee F.
Tiffany,
We made the change long before Fasttrak was on the market. I don't recall the specific reason. With the expansion of the O Gauge track systems, many styles of turnouts have been made over the years.
For 2011, we will have our catalog out in February, so you will just have to wait and see.
Regards,
3rail
Tiff,
Don't be afraid to change track systems. You'll recoup a lot of your money auctioning off your Fastrack on-line.
I think Gargraves flex-track and switches are gorgeous, though they would have to be used in a more permanent setting/layout.
(Flex-track shaped to a curve needs to be attached to a surface to hold that curve.)
Hmm,... "Necessity is the mother of invention"..., Flex-track carpet anchors...., yeah, that's it,... it'll make me millions.....
Again, I have O-27 and O-gauge (O-31) Lionel (and competitors copies) tubular tinplate track.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Hello Phillyreading......
I agree the fastrack switches the remote control ones are super expensive so i use the manuals which they are like 39 dollars a pop and still bit expensive.
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
hello Joe Satnik.........
doesn't the tube type track wear grooves on the wheels of engines, ? i have seen some heavy wears on locomotive's wheels on evil-bay as they look like pulleys !!!!! :o lol
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Tiff,
Are you sure you're not looking at the grooves that the traction tires settle into?
(Broken/missing traction tire?)
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Hello Joe Satnik....
no, i dont think so because the engine was a postwar lionel 2321 FM, didnt use any traction tires back then i think....... :)
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Dear Tiffany,
I've heard of 3rd rail pickup rollers having a groove wore in them, even cutting the rollers in half, but I didn't realize you could wear out the wheels.
That Trainmaster must have had some big mileage with heavy loads put on it.
I pretty sure the wheels can be replaced, though I'm not sure of the cost.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Hello Joe Satnik......
i guess so.......... i had grooves on the roller pick ups on my lionel 2383 back in 1974.......LOL. I wish i still had it.
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Quote from: bluerose lady on September 25, 2010, 12:14:16 PM
hello Joe Satnik.........
doesn't the tube type track wear grooves on the wheels of engines, ? i have seen some heavy wears on locomotive's wheels on evil-bay as they look like pulleys !!!!! :o lol
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
I think this is a story started by the makers of T-rail.
I have three Lionel locos from 1946-47 and none have grooves worn in the wheels.
There were some reports of Lionel Super O track with the very narrow center rail wearing into the pick-up rollers and slides.I have seen it on slides.
Hello rOgruth.........
I didnt make up these stories, what will i gain from it ? all i know is that when i was bowsing in the E-bay looking at lionel FM and some showed parts and i saw one of the power wheel trucks without the sideframes for the 2321 and it showed the wheels with heavy grooves on it but was missing roller pick up assemblies. it looked like pulleys........SMILE
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
I have heard people say that Super O gauge track, from the late 50's, will wear groves in the center rollers over many years of use.
From experiance I have seen that lower end engines roller wheels(low end castings of roller wheels, or cheap metal) are quick to have groove marks show up in them.
What I have had happen on a Lionel # 249E steam engine is the trailing wheels wore thru after almost 60 years of use. I replaced them with a set of wheels from a Lionel diesel I took apart.
Lee F.
Hello PhillyReading.......
thats interesting to know SMILE. i wonder if that ultra expensive pre-war 700E scale hudson of 1937,38 with its pot metal (zinc) driver centers and flanges do in terms of wear ? But they do come with nickel plated steel tires. It is the driver flanges that take the most wear & tear like the lionel 726's berkshires as i have seen alot of them on evil-bay. but the 736's have harder wheels and flanges so that helps. The williams berkshires have harden driver wheels and flanges and nickle plated steels tires with traction tires and without makes them best runners with least amout of flanged wear. my williams berkshire has been runing on lionel fastrack for 40 hours now and the berkshire's flanges are wearing out the curve sections of the outside rail :o and very little wear and tear on the williams berkshire's drivers flanges !!!
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Tiffany,
Some of the older Lionel steam engines came with Baldwin Locomotive Works hardened steel drive wheels, example # 224E (1941).
As for wearing out track, I have only bent the rails on any track I have when I had a derailment happen. The track was Gargraves stainless steel.
I may try Atlas track to see if it is more solid.
Lee F.
Hello Phillyreading.......
is the lionel # 224 entire wheel is hard steel ? or its zinc wheels with steel tire ?
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Tiffany,
The drive wheels on the 224E are solid metal and has Baldwin Disc stamped on them, don't know what kind of metal but it isn't magnetic, as a magnet won't attach to it.
The wheels are not a soft metal, that is for sure. I am not into the study of metals so I can't tell you what the wheels are made of.
Lee F.
Quote from: phillyreading on September 28, 2010, 03:21:02 PM
Tiffany,
Some of the older Lionel steam engines came with Baldwin Locomotive Works hardened steel drive wheels, example # 224E (1941).
As for wearing out track, I have only bent the rails on any track I have when I had a derailment happen. The track was Gargraves stainless steel.
I may try Atlas track to see if it is more solid.
Lee F.
Lee,How did/do you bend the rails?
Just curious.
Atlas ads say it is solid. But it may not work with Magne-traction!
If Atlas has solid rails, I may try it when I can afford to do so.
As for bending rails with Gargraves, it just happens when an engine falls over on its side and smashes the rail. I have not purposely bent the Gargrvaes track!!
Lee F.
Hello phillyreading......
I used to have soild rail atlas track, i think it is nickle silver rail so it is not magn-traction type rail. one thing to be aware of is that the rail joiners are soft metal (thin) and they dont stay on tight to make a good soild connection between track sections. I believe later production runs, the rail joiners were harder (thicker) and that it has improved the connections tightness. The tracks is well made, except maybe the switches but check it out.
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany
Hello Guys,Gals.....
Has anyone have williams berkshire that pulled more than 40 cars ? just wondering, anyone ?
the woman who loves toy trains
Tiffany