Hello everyone,
I'm new to the hobby. I started a week ago. I purchased a Kato Amtrak set but I've always been fascinated with steam locomotives so I picked up a Bachmann consolidation.
I really like it a lot. I've been looking at pictures and I've been reading about steam locomotives online but I don't seem to find information regarding their average speed. All I see is information on records they set at 100+ miles per hour and I am not interested in that.
Also, what's a realistic amount of cars they pulled, I can't seem to find that either.
I'm gonna make a trip to Barnes&Noble to pick up a few books on these magestic giants but I bet you they will be filled up with dates and high speed records but no information I am looking for. I want to know how long it took them to warm up the boiler in the morning before their schedule and how often they had to stop to get more water and fuel. My grandpa told me so much about these machines but unfortunately I was too young to care about his stories. He would tell me that they had steam valves that would release steam while the engine was idling and so you had to keep your distance and so forth...
Will you guys please help me with this. Anyway if you know of a good book I would greatly appreciate your recommendation.
Thank you.
Welcome, Inder. I hope you enjoy this marvelous hobby and I hope you find steam locomotives as fascinating as I do. You ask a lot of good questions, but the answers are very complex.
First, just like automotive vehicles, steam locomotives were designed to do a variety of tasks - some were fast but relatively weak while others were slow but very powerful. Obviously two things that relate to speed is how level the track is and how heavy is the train being pulled.
We identify steam locomotives in two major ways, by their type name and by their wheel arrangement. The wheel arrangement is important because you can get a good idea of how fast and how powerful the locomotive is by the arrangemen.
All steam locomotives have drivers. In addition a lot have pony wheels, at the very front and trailing trucks, under the cab. These wheels are always smaller than the drivers and are not connected to the cylinders like the drivers are. By this system, your Consolidation is a 2-8-0, which means two pony wheels, eight drivers, and no trailing trucks. As a general rule, locomotives with two pony wheels were freight locomotives and were fairly slow but powerful. Another loco with eight drivers is the 0-8-0, which means it only has drivers. This configuration in the U.S. was normally a switcher, which often had even smaller drivers than a freight loco. A bigger firebox gave more energy, so the 2-8-2, or Mikado came about.
Four pony wheels normally indicated a passenger locomotive like the 4-8-2 Mountain. After awhile even more power was needed and railroads developed the 2-8-4 and the 4-8-4.
Another factor is that passenger locos tended to have fewer drivers, but larger than freight, so the 4-6-2 and 4-6-4 were very common.
There were also steam locomotives with two sets of drivers. These were normally articulated and had patterns like the 2-6-6-2 USRA light articulated.
So. The more drivers, the later the development, generally, so a 2-6-0 is an older design than the 2-8-0 which is more powerful.
Four wheel pony trucks tend to identify passenger locomotives, which went faster than freight locos.
The more trailing trucks, the more powerful, so a 2-8-4 is more powerful than a 2-8-2 which is more powerful than a 2-8-0,
I hope this has helped.
Inder,
To ad some info to the great info Gene has given you, here are some very general guidelines about steam locomotives and train lengths.
A Consolidation, like your Bachmann model would be able to pull about 4,000 tons on level track, that is about 70 or 80 loaded 40' box cars. BUT, few railroads had completely level routes, so its capacity would be reduced depending on how steep the grades where.
In practice, a single Consolidation, on a line with mild grades (less than 1%), would pull a train anywhere from 30 to 50 cars. As for speed, it would pull such a train at a maximum of about 45 mph and average about 35 mph.
The Mikado (2-8-2) type Gene metioned, was only a little more powerful, but measureably faster because it has a better balanced suspension and a larger firebox to produce steam faster. A Mikado would typically handle a 60 car train at speeds of 40-60 mph.
As Gene said, the factors of steam loco design, use, speed, power, etc, are vary complex. The examples I have given you are very general and subject to some assumptions that are not explained. But I thought some general info like this may be of interest based on you questions.
Some more quick examples:
A 4-6-2 Pacific could handle about 8-12 passenger cars on level or mild grades, but might only handle 3-5 in mountain districts. Even the smallest of this type could easily cruise at speeds in the 70-80 mph range.
The 4-8-2 was one of the first designs to balance speed and power. Some railroads (like the C&O) used them as passenger locos in mountainious areas, while other railroads (like the NYC) used them as fast freight locos on fairly level routes.
Northerns (4-8-4) where the ultimate acheavement of balancing power and speed.
Again, this just begins to scratch the surface, good luck and have fun.
Sheldon
You should be able to count the revolutions of the driving wheels. If you cant the loco is going too fast.
Bill, for a freight or switcher, that's close to being correct. OTOH, that is not true of a passenger engine at speed.
Gene
at average speeds ill put straight and simple
it depends on kind , amount of cars and age
this doesnt nessecerly factor in the kind of loco
in 1829 (when the planet locomotive was realased)
the top speed was between 15-30 miles per hour
in 1849 the top speed was around 40 to 50 miles per hour
in 1869 the top speed was around 70-100 miles per hour
in 1899 the top speed was around 100 and 110 miles per hour
and stayed at that for steam in risk of malfuction and other dangerous possibilities. and with the invention of electric trains the focus was taken away.
The fastest steam train was the mallard of the 30's 40's and 50's which broke the steam record to this day at 126 miles an hour
now there are electric and diesel trains which can easily pass that speed
but its surprising what water pressure could make move
at around 1950's steam loco's began disapearing for more efficent kinds
there are still some for tourism use.
i my self find steam trains much more appealing because of there sort of trade mark chug and such
was the first
i think the best
enjoy steam ;D
Inder, welcome aboard!
This site is a wealth of knowledge. All of the previous posts have answered most of your questions. One question you asked is "how long does it take to bring the locomotive up to operating pressure". This is something that can be rushed, but a slow steadily increasing pressure is the way to go. I know at Strasburg PA, they take 24hrs to bring a locomotive from no fire up to operating pressure. That allows the metals to heat slowly and evenly vs rushing just to get enough pressure.
Welcome to this great hobby!
Quote from: SteamGene on September 04, 2007, 01:17:10 PM
Welcome, Inder. I hope you enjoy this marvelous hobby and I hope you find steam locomotives as fascinating as I do. You ask a lot of good questions, but the answers are very complex.
First, just like automotive vehicles, steam locomotives were designed to do a variety of tasks - some were fast but relatively weak while others were slow but very powerful. Obviously two things that relate to speed is how level the track is and how heavy is the train being pulled.
We identify steam locomotives in two major ways, by their type name and by their wheel arrangement. The wheel arrangement is important because you can get a good idea of how fast and how powerful the locomotive is by the arrangemen.
All steam locomotives have drivers. In addition a lot have pony wheels, at the very front and trailing trucks, under the cab. These wheels are always smaller than the drivers and are not connected to the cylinders like the drivers are. By this system, your Consolidation is a 2-8-0, which means two pony wheels, eight drivers, and no trailing trucks. As a general rule, locomotives with two pony wheels were freight locomotives and were fairly slow but powerful. Another loco with eight drivers is the 0-8-0, which means it only has drivers. This configuration in the U.S. was normally a switcher, which often had even smaller drivers than a freight loco. A bigger firebox gave more energy, so the 2-8-2, or Mikado came about.
Four pony wheels normally indicated a passenger locomotive like the 4-8-2 Mountain. After awhile even more power was needed and railroads developed the 2-8-4 and the 4-8-4.
Another factor is that passenger locos tended to have fewer drivers, but larger than freight, so the 4-6-2 and 4-6-4 were very common.
There were also steam locomotives with two sets of drivers. These were normally articulated and had patterns like the 2-6-6-2 USRA light articulated.
So. The more drivers, the later the development, generally, so a 2-6-0 is an older design than the 2-8-0 which is more powerful.
Four wheel pony trucks tend to identify passenger locomotives, which went faster than freight locos.
The more trailing trucks, the more powerful, so a 2-8-4 is more powerful than a 2-8-2 which is more powerful than a 2-8-0,
I hope this has helped.
Depends on what road you model steamgene,
B&O, was more complex, a 4-8-2 on the B&O pulled Passengers and Freight(although most video i have on dvd is a 4-8-2 pulling a freight). 2-8-0's also saw a mix operation. and 0-8-0's on the B&O were primarly yard goats, however they did do some local coal drags(thats what i've read anyway).
B&O also used 2-8-2's for local passenger service.
Depends on what road you model steamgene,
B&O, was more complex, a 4-8-2 on the B&O pulled Passengers and Freight(although most video i have on dvd is a 4-8-2 pulling a freight). 2-8-0's also saw a mix operation. and 0-8-0's on the B&O were primarly yard goats, however they did do some local coal drags(thats what i've read anyway).
B&O also used 2-8-2's for local passenger service.
I knew somebody was going to go to exceptions! The 4-8-2 and the 4-8-4 were both dual service. Earlier, the 4-4-0, the 2-6-0, and the 2-6-2 were also dual service, as was the 4-6-0. The C&O used 2-8-4s for passenger service as well as a few 2-6-6-6's. We have on record a post on a 4-6-2 used for light freight.
However, I'll stand by my overview.
Gene
The exceptions, that's endless.
Yes, the B&O used mikes (63" and 70" drivered ones) for passenger locals in the mountain areas, but the prefered power for those assignments, even on the B&O was a light Pacific (70" drivers).
Many south eastern lines used Pacifics and "Mountains" as dual service locos. The gentle grades allowed this.
The NYC had a large fleet of 4-8-2's, I don't think one ever pulled a passenger train on that railroad. Yet on the B&O, their 4-8-2's where so effective at dual service, they never owned a 4-8-4!
Sheldon
Well Gene, your not going to like it- but...
"Four pony wheels indicates a passenger engine"
Now when, oh when, did the Union Pacific Big Boy ever pull revenue passenger trains. (Not troop trains.)
I know you meant mostly indicates, but I had to post.
I've never figured out why the UP did the 4-X-X-4 pattern, other than to be different.
Gene
Quote from: Hoople on September 04, 2007, 10:32:32 PM
"Four pony wheels indicates a passenger engine"
In Canada, 4-6-2s were regularly used on mixed and freight trains right up until the end of steam.
Wow,
This is going to take some time to digest.
Thank you all for the wealth of information. I will go back and read it a few more times - will need to. It's where you got the big number of drive wheels but then the locomotive's task is not so strenuous where it gets confusing. I know that the 0-6-0 was a switcher. I got that much down.
Or for example, I read that the Spectrum 2-8-0 is a great puller but a 2-6-6-2 is not. I don't understand why this is so. I have a 2-8-0, it is indeed a phenomenal engine and I am waiting for a 2-6-6-2 so I will see how well it compares. The more drive wheels the better it should be is what I reckon. Maybe it has to do with the articulation. In any case I have some reading to do.
I read lots and lots of posts here in the 31 pages you have under general discussion and it's all very helpful.
One phrase stuck to my head and had been cracking me up all day:
"When first you open the Katsup bottle
first a little, then a lotto" ...something like that.
That was good stuff. Not to veer off the topic but that's what stuck to my head while playing catch up here.
Anyhow thanks for all the info and I'm glad I signed up here.
Inder,
One thing to remember about model engines regardless of whether they are electric, diesel, or steam - they will not pull what the real ones did in almost every case. The size of your trains will be dependent on the size of your railroad and whether it is flat or not. I have a figure E shaped railroad that measures roughly 16 by 26 and find that any train over 35 cars is too long. That means it actually looks strange, or as many of us say, it overwhelms the railroad. If you were to be at my place, and see a larger type steam engine go by with 35 cars, it would look like a long train, where in the real world, that would be considered a short train. As you get into the hobby you will be able to tell how long your trains should be.
Inder,
As Bob says, there is no real connection between what a real locomotive pulled and what a model does. I am quite satisfied by what my Spectrum 2-6-6-2s pull. Part of the marvel of the Spectrum 2-8-0 is the fact that it was the FIRST well detailed plastic model that performed well that was also well known. Before that, most plastic steam locomotives were poor performers, with Bachmann being at the bottom of the list. So when the 2-6-6-2 came out many were perhaps expecting even better performance and were let down.
One current member, Sheldon, IIRC, has done some investigating on the theory that, with a model, the more drivers, the less tractive effort.
Gene
Gene, that is very interesting! I would tend to assume (yeah I know about assuming) the more drivers on the rail, the more traction! Seems like a law of physics would apply here, unless of course it is directly proportional to the model locos weight!
Sheldon, if you have any info on this as you did with the wheel sets, trucks, etc, I would truly be interested in seeing your findings! This past Winter helped my immeasurably.
Stephen
Stephen, it just struck me that the reason is the sharing of the locomotive weight. Remember that Roger among others advocates removing springs from pony and trailing trucks to increase tractive effort. Well, consider a model locomotive weighing 12 ounces. If it has six drivers, each one supports two ounces, while if it has 12, each supports only one. IIRC, what counts for the real railroads is the amount per axle and not a multiplication of that.
Granted, I'm not a physicist.
Gene
Gene, I think I am getting the hang of this, that makes sense! Removing the springs makes even more sense! So by this train of thought, (pun intended) I should be able to increase the weight of the over all locomotive and proportionally increase the tractive effort! I understand that the more wheels on the rails the less axle weight they have on the rails! Revelation here...similar to tractor-trailers on the road. The more axles the more dispersed the weight! Ah, slowly but surely. Stephen
OK, here goes a basic explanation.
Physics does NOT scale down, if it did our models would pull as much or more than their prototypes because they are actually as heavy or heavier in scale proportion terms.
But, the coeffiecent of friction between the rail and the wheel does not scale down, so our much smaller wheels and rail are much more slippery.
So model steam locomotives that put all or most of their weight on just two axles pull better pound for pound than those with the loco weight distrubted on 3,4 or 5 axles, because greater weight concentrated on fewer wheels means less slip and more grip. Also the very way steam locos go around curves means a loss of adheasion, and our curves are much sharper than the prototype, making that worse. The two axle weight bearing makes this less of a problem as well.
Diesels don't suffer from these problems near as much, so they pull better.
My research into this showed clearly that 4 axle locos with two rigid alxes and the other two loosely sprung or floating so no weight was on them, pulled better than simalar weight locos with all the drivers sprung, evenly distrubting the weight.
Most model articulated locos have very little weight on the front set of drivers (regardless of mechanism design), and therefor only pull as well as the weight on the rear drivers allow.
Rolling resistance of cars has a lot to do with pulling capacity as well. I have done much study in this area also. With free rolling cars, train lengths up to 30-60% of prototype practices are possible.
On level track, a Bachmann 2-6-6-2 will pull about 130 oz of rolling stock with very free rolling trucks. That is equal to about 40 avarage freight cars, or about 1/3 of what the prototype could pull.
The best pullers by far, are those locos with most weight on only two axles and traction tires on the rear weight bearing axle. Some on this board will rail at the idea of traction tires and that is their right, but physics does not scale down and those of us interested in at least approaching scale train lengths are generally happy for MODERN traction tires on this new crop of locos.
Several have commented about prototype train lengths vs model train lengths. And, while I agree that model layouts often can look overwelmed by excessively long trains, many modelers settle for the opposite extreme.
A 2-6-6-2 or big 4-8-4 pulling 12 cars (on ANY layout) looks ridiculous. If you are going to settle for 12 car trains, settle for a 2-8-0 as well.
Here is my guidelines for model train lengths that look reasonable an are doable on medium sized layouts and above:
Mainline, class I train, locos as noted -
2-6-6-2 or 2-8-8-2 pulling 35-40, 34' hoppers
Two, 2-8-0's or 2-8-2's pulling 30-35, 40' and 50' merchandise cars
4-8-4 pulling 25-30 freight cars or 7-9 passenger cars
2-8-0 pulling 18 cars, local way freight
4-6-2 pulling 5-8 passenger cars
If your grades are steep you can justify doubling your power more so than shortening your train. It took three or four 2-8-8-2's to pull/push 70 hoppers over the Allegheny summit on the B&O, but they never would have thought of leaving the yard with only 16 hoppers behind one loco.
So on that note, I run 35-40 car hopper trains with two 2-8-8-2's on the head end. They look great.
Well just my thoughts for those who are interested. Mostly just run trains, build trains and have fun.
Sheldon
You asked several questions about the prototype that were not answered. As to the time it takes to "heat up" a steam lcomotive from a dead cold start - no less than four hours up to 12 hours. For this reason, most roundhouses had access to steam lines that charged the boiler with steam at the same time as a fire was built. Without this, building too hot a fire could cause great differences in the metal temperature at various parts in the boiler, causing leaks or metal fatigue.
Most locomotives required water every 25 miles when working a heavy train, and coal every 100 miles. Since early steam locomotives usually could run no more than 100 miles without requiring mechanical repairs, divisions were 100 miles long. A few railrads, NYC, PRR, B&O and a few others, had scoops under the tender and long track pans, permitting trains to scoop water into the tender at speed, eliminating the need to stop every 25 miles for water. Others put humongous 16 wheel tenders behind their steam locomotives.
One used to figure maximum speed as the driver diameter in inches, but the N&W "J" had 70 inch drivers and could do over 100 MPH. OTOH, most Shays had 36 inch drivers and topped out at 15 MPH.
Sheldon, thanks for the info. Makes sense! BTW, I did apply and test your data from last Winter on the free rolling cars issue. I think I may have topped your data but only on level grade. I used an Athern 4-8-8-4 and managed to circumvent my layout (175 feet of track) one time pulling 75 different types of freight cars without the train uncoupling or derailing. The 4-8-8-4 was the only steam engine that I have that could do that. I have a 2-10-4 and it did almost as well but the 22" radius turns was not very friendly towards that engine. I have managed to pull over 100 different freight cards with a very large and heavy diesel but would only make one or two circuts before derailing! Only did this to research and "just to see what I could do". However, I also ran some "stock" cars and I could not accomplish the same results. Have to have Kadee couplers, preferrably semi-scale! Your recommended wheel sets and trucks, and very level grade! It is interesting to see the results. Thanks for all your assistance.
Stephen
Thank you all for your information.
Thirdrail. I had never heard that steam locomotives scooped up water from below. That's pretty ingenious. I thought they simply stopped and filled up from water towers. Back in the day I'm sure only upper class could afford first class and they were probably divided into several classes.
I bought a DVD of the mexican railroad called "Pacifico" and this was video taped in the 90's. Well they were still communication via telegraph relay.
Now I'm sure in the US they probably have a permanent computer link via satellite. But it's interesting to see how some old systems and some really old engines are still being used elsewhere. The reason why I dropped 30 dollars on the DVD is because I grew up in Mexico and I lived real close to the train station so I spent a lot of time watching the train go by. I used to put money on the track so the train would flatten it. That somehow never got old growing up. I should have bought a DVD on steam engines but I figured, sooner or later I will have them all.
I was doing some work in Durango Colorado and I had the privilege of watching their steam engine make its rounds. I didn't have time to actually ride it but it was a very special moment for me to watch it ride past me from just a few feet away. I felt shivers down my spine. It actually looks like a living machine.
I can't wait to get my hands on my spectrum 2-6-6-2. I was interested to see how many cars it could pull but it looks like that's already been done.
But as I build my railroad I will follow the following suggested numbers:
2-6-6-2 or 2-8-8-2 pulling 35-40, 34' hoppers
Two, 2-8-0's or 2-8-2's pulling 30-35, 40' and 50' merchandise cars
4-8-4 pulling 25-30 freight cars or 7-9 passenger cars
2-8-0 pulling 18 cars, local way freight
4-6-2 pulling 5-8 passenger cars
I wonder what it was like, preparing an engine for the morning trip. What was it like when a locomotive broke down in the middle of nowhere? What was their plan B? Would they send out another locomotive or would they send horse carriages? What was the customer service like then? I'm sure people had a little more patient that now. It was a much slower paced world.
Anyway this is all very awesome to me. I was about 5 when my step dad showed me his N scale collection which comprised of a 0-6-0 switcher. A few boxed cars and a caboose. Also there was another locomotive without the shell and it didn't work. I was hooked. I knew that sooner or later I would have to have my own collection. And the time is now. I am 30 years old and I decided it was about time I start.
If you would really like to learn about steam locomotives go to this link :
http://www.history.com/search.do?searchText=trains+unlimited&targetDB=THC_SPIDER_V2
and consider purchasing “Trains Unlimited†and “When Giants Roamed†in the Store section on the right of the webpage. The phrase “excellent viewing†is not good enough. If you love steam train engines the way I do you will watch these over and over. The cost is well worth in my book.
Inder,
As you plan your railroad, remember something. The number of cars any of your engines will pull will be dependent on certain facts, some of which I alluded to before. For a road engine, do you have grades? If so, how steep? Also, and it is always something that gets mentioned on this board, the pulling capacity of an engine can be drastically changed just by how well your freight and passenger cars roll, let alone their weight. The rolling capacity will affect engine performance more than anything else, in my opinion, be it right or wrong. Like I said before, as you build your railroad you need to keep these facts in mind.
Inder,
Bob is correct. In addition, consider how large an area you have for a layout. That should have a big bearing on the length of your trains. I'm building what is probably a fairly large home layout and I'm not planning on anything longer than about 20 cars, plus locomotive and caboose.
I've never heard of a steam locomotive breaking down. They did derail or explode from time to time, but other than throwing a rod, I'm not sure what else might happen. Remember steam in the U.S. didn't go out until the '50s. Few folks were still using horses as primary transportation then.
There were very few railroads that took on water from track tanks, the PRR and NYC being the only two I'm sure of. As a rule, water got replinished while the tender was stopped.
Gene
Gene, B&O also took water from track pans. Theres a picture in a B&O Book i'm reading that shows the 4-6-4 Lord Baltimore taking water from the track pans. I wouldn't want to be standing next to it when they do it though. (Book is called Royal Blue Line by Herbert H. Harwood, Jr.)
I think they were all in the East. I'm fairly sure that most of the "on the fly" tenders were for passenger trains.
Gene
I would like to see that picture BaltoOhioRRfan.
What is the name of the book?
So does it splatter the water all over the place as it scoops it up?
The scoops of the original experiments were torn off the tender when they hit the water. They finally came up with holes that relieved pressure, allowing some water to escape - sort of like a recoiless rifle. IIRC, the pan was about a mile long, with a sign telling the fireman when to lower the scoop. It did splash water out to the sides. The locomotive had to be going a specific speed so the scoop lowered in the tank and raised before the tank ended.
Again, very uncommon in the U.S. though I've been told they were common in the UK.
Gene
book is called Book is called Royal Blue Line by Herbert H. Harwood, Jr. I finished reading it today at work( i was on door duty today, very boring) They got a photo of a 4-6-2 P7 Presidental Pacific using the pans also.
Track pans/water troughs were invented in the UK
Here's the Wikipeadia quote: -
John Ramsbottom, a Victorian locomotive engineer, devised the water trough/track pan. This is a very long (several hundred yards) shallow trough laid in between the rails at a suitable point on the line where tender replenishment is required and the trough can easily be refilled from a nearby water source. Obviously the entire length of the installation must be on level track, and suitable intervals between these locations and commercial stopping points are essential
Thank you for all the information guys.
I also was wondering, when the steam is collected in the dome? how is it sent to the piston.
And since steam is essentially water, what did they use to lubricate the piston. Wiki mentions it was a mixture of tallow and oil. But it doesn't mention how it was administered into the cylinder.
I just received my Spectrum 2-6-6-2 and I think my Spectrum 2-8-0 pulls better.
I have read here how to remove the lettering and I plan on changing my 2-6-6-2 to NdeM railroad.
I found a lot of pictures on the internet and that's where I got the Idea.
Do you guys advice on applying a matte clearcoat to the decals so they don't fall off?
The steam is collected in the steam dome and sent by a dry pipe to each cylinder where it passes into each cylinder through a valve which opens and shuts as the piston moves. The cylinders have an lube reservoir to allow for the lubrication. One of the jobs of the engineer when the locomotive is stopped is to "oil round the engine," replintishing the oil supply for each of the lubrication points.
Gene
It's a good idea to apply a glossy finish to the surface where the decals will go and then afterwards to spary with dullcote.
BTW, the last was from memory as I can't find my Steam Locomotive Cylopaedia!
Gene
I appreciate everyone's help here. Thank you all. I've been reading a lot of the DCC articles because eventually I want to go that route but in the meantime I will concentrate on getting my fleet of locomotives completed along with my rolling stock. Next lots of Kato track because I will have a temporary layout for a long time before I do a permanent set-up since I'm a newbie (spelling police).
Well I have a black Spectrum 2-6-6-2 that I purposely bought this way so I could add my own decals. I almost feel like I should practice on some rolling stock before I do it on my loco. Gene, you mention Dullcote. I'm assuming it's a product I can pick up at my local hobby shop?
Once I spray the dullcote, is the finish permanent? Does it look a little different in the area where I spray that stuff versus the rest of the loco?
I guess if I ever need to send in my loco for repairs and the bachmann crew decides to send me a new one instead or repairing mine I will have to redo my decals.
That brings up another question. I purchased a few locos at my local hobby shop. I picked up some Atlas C628's and my precious Spectrums condolidations. Well one of the Atlas needed repairs right out of the box and they told me to ship it to the manufacturer. I did that but I felt they should have just swapped it for me and I wasn't happy about that. So my Spectrums 2-6-6-2 I bought brand new on Ebay since apparently I get no better service from my LHS. Plus I save money.
Now, the warranty cards need to be mailed right away it says but each box has some kind of serial number written. It is located inside the box, if you remove the locomotive and the packing. Is thi the number I need to write on the warranty card? I don't see a serial number on the locos themselves.
Please help me with this. I need to take care of this soon.
One more thing. In the movie, "'Back to the Future Part III" at the end they use a locomotive to transport Marty back to the present. What kind of loco was it? - just a fun question I guess
Dullcote is a Testor's product which gives a dull finish after application. It covers up the gloss, which is necessary for proper decal adhession. After it dries, it protects the decals from harm.
The locomotive in BTF III is, IIRC, a Ten-Wheeler, used in many movies and tv shows. For the life of me, I can't remember its number.
Gene
Inder;
You mentioned you have a "black" 2-6-6-2. Certainly it is your hobby to enjoy the way you like, but just for the heck of it, take a good look at (1);pictures of the "real thing"-in colour, if you can. (2); take a good look at a lot of work by Bill Darnaby, John Allen, Allen McClelland, harold Zane, and John Pryke. The one commonality is that their engines are not "black", and there is a good reason for that. As you get farther away, dark colours tend to diminish in prominence-that is, they sort of prematurely "blend in" to almost insignificance, especially if your layout is of the 36" high variety or there abouts and the "far-away look "prevails.
Might I suggest that you first remove any existing decals you may not want, lightly reprimer the engine, and paint it a "Weathered Black" (Floquil)
or any lightened engine black, adulterated with some blue. read up on techniques before attempting this, but trust me; it will look great.
after that, do a gloss coat on the models to be decaled. I tend to do the bottom half of the cab, and the whole tender because; in the case of the cab, ther eare some really neat "borderlines you can use to keep any uneven-ness from pervading an other wise good finish on the rest of the engine. That done, do as Gene says, and decal over your glossed areas. There are several sites on how to do good decalling; again, I suggest you read these before doing.
When completed with decalling, give the whole a coat of flat-your choice. I use "rust-it"s dead flat because that is exactly what it is-dead!!
Now weather this engine. Again, John Pryke has some excellent articles in past MR issues, and he also has a book that will give you some really good insight into this approach.
Always remember to use a logical approach: most locomotives were well-maintained; and that would include "hygene". That said, familiarize yourself with what wold get dirty, rusty, etc and why.
When you are done with weathering your engine, give it a coat of flat-again, your choice. THis will ensure aome degree of protection and even-ness of the job. BTW, all if my recommendations are going to be based on your ability to use an airbrush. If you are unfamiliar with this, get familiar; you will inevitably need this talent in other areas, and will be glad you did. I will try to send you some pics offline of some of my stuff. It may help, or it may not. Good Luck.
RIch
Well I have no experience in the field of airbrush and I knew one day I would need it. No problem I'm still young - not as young but never late to start.
I will not rush things but I definitely want my steam engines weathered. So I will practice airbrushing and I will do some research on weathering techniques.
My email address is sterotypender@yahoo.com in case you want to send me some pictures.
Gene, Yeah now I feel I should pop in the BTF III dvd so I can see the locomotive's number.
Rich,
A few thoughts:
Inder seems very new, I hope we are not overwheming him with information/opinions.
While I agree with your assement of locomotive "color", I am reluctant to completely repaint factory painted, but unlettered models that I decal for my freelanced road. I have found light weathering with a light grey to be just as effective at geting the normal wear, normal light look of "black".
I believe from his post, Inder has an unlettered 2-6-6-2 which he plans to decal. I have had no problem decaling Bachmann unlettered locos right out of the box, lightly weathering them and coating them with clear flat or semi gloss.
Roger will most likely rail at your sugestion of uniform coatings of "weathered black", he has blasted me in the past for similar comments as those you made to Inder. We all have our own "perception" of these things.
Weathering is often over done in my opinion. Depending on several factors, weathering may not be all that noticable. Example - Assume for a moment that you have aready painted your steam loco an off-black color of some sort, then you have highlighted some areas with gray or tan or both to simulate dirt/wear. Viewed up close this may not be totally effective, BUT viewed from two feet, an HO model is 175' away. My front yard is 175' long, as I sit on my porch and watch the cars go by, it is imposable to tell the clean/perfect ones form the dull/dirty ones to any great extent.
Also, time period in history has a lot to do with weathering. While new equipment and run down equipment can be found in any era, some era's deserve more weathering, others less.
The 1950's was a time of general prosperity for railroads and a great influx of new equipment, so, over all, everything looked newer and was in better shape than let's say, 1936, when only passenger trains would have received such care.
Again, weathering can be completely over done, unless you model present day where no one has any pride of ownership.
Sheldon
On the subject of weathering, I think a lot of us have the John Allen Gorre and Dapthtid idea, forgetting that John modeled a struggling railroad hit hard by the Depression, IIRC.
Remember that color picture of the USRA 0-6-0 at the end of its life, some time in the early/mid 1950s and how little filth it had on it and where.
Let's face it if we model steam most of us have coal bunkers which look like the locomotive has just refueled, leaving the yard. So the chances are it will be clean. So if we have it look like its run 100 miles over poor ballast the only possible explaination is that it has JUST refueled at the end of its run.
Gene
Back to the Future III featured Sierra Railroad's #3, a 4-6-0 "10-wheeler".
Speaking of steam locomotives,
I am sure that most steam locomotives showed signs of weathering ... on the other hand there are good prototypical arguments for 'shiny' new looking locomotives as well. Just recently shopped, just purchased or built new, just rebuilt ... etc, etc. The photo below is one of my favorites on this subject. A bright, shiny, 2-10-2, and ICRR 2800 series which were the last and largest of the 2-10-2s on the IC. I don't suppose it stayed this way very long ... but sure looks nice here.
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9808/2817at6.jpg)
Obviously, weathering, etc. is a personal modeler's choice and those who do it and do it well, have very beautiful results that are very realistic looking. I personally am not into weathering though I do a tiny bit to highlight the 'super detailing' I have added to my ICRR locomotives. "To each his own" I think might be appropriate here.
lanny
Just a little general history of steam to put it in context.
The 4-4-0 dominated the railroads of the 19th century, and was used in all types of service. By 1900, though it had about reached its limit for power and speed. The 2-6-0 followed in popularity, used mostly for freight service. The 2-8-0 was developed in the Civil War period, and grew over time to become the dominant freight engine by 1900. The Ten-Wheeler was also popular as a "dual service" engine, though there were some that were built especially as high-speed passenger locos.
There was a big change in loco design in the early years of the 20th century, most especially with regard to firebox design. Up until then, most fireboxs were narrow, and fit down between the drivers. With the development of trailing trucks, fireboxes could get much bigger, supported by the trailing truck behind the drivers. This led to development of the
4-4-2, 4-6-2, 2-8-2, 2-10-2, 4-8-2 in rapid order. As more speed and horsepower were needed, the 4-wheel trailing truck was developed to allow even larger fireboxes. This led to the 2-8-4, 2-10-4 and 4-8-4 types.
Articulateds came in about 1900, beginning with the B&O's 0-6-6-0, "Old Maude". The early designs were built as Mallets, which means they used the steam twice, first in the high-pressure cylinders, then in the low-pressure cylinders. Later, adavances in firebox and boiler design allowed articulateds to be built "simple", with high-pressure steam being fed to all cylinders. Most all articulateds were freight engines, though some modern ones (the UP Challengers and the N&W Class A's come to mind) could be used for passenger service.
The Depression of the 1930's essentially put a halt to steam design, since there was virtually no market for new locos. World War II brought about some excellent locos, but by that time the diesels were showing their worth. Big coal-hauling roads like the Pennsy and N&W tried to hang on, but to no avail. PRR steam ended in 1957; N&W in 1960.
The diesels won out for a couple of reasons: They were standardized, meaning much less in the way of parts management. They were much less labor-intensive--you didn't need boilermakers and foundrymen and hostlers, and all the other people that were needed for a steam loco. You also didn't need anywhere near as much infrastructure--no coal docks, no water tanks every 25 miles or so, no ash pits, etc. Finally, even the best steam locos were only about 10 or 12 percent thermally efficient. A lot of heat and expansive energy went up the stack. Diesels are about 70% efficent, if memory serves.
Roger will most likely rail at your sugestion of uniform coatings of "weathered black", he has blasted me in the past for similar comments as those you made to Inder. We all have our own "perception" of these things.
Sheldon;
I do not care. What Roger thinks is Roger's right. What you, Gene, Hunt, et al think is your right. I simply contributed my thoughts, for whatever they are worth.
What I think a lot of people do miss is not so much achieved by weathering, gloss, fancy decals, or anything of that nature; it is instead, the aspect of balance; and, as I pointed out to Inder, a logical approach to this whole thing. Gene pointed out Allen's G&D, characterized it as a struggling railroad. That certainly is a valid point; however, it is not one upon which to base a whole perspective. John did more than depict a struggling railroad; he basically strove for a balance-a harmony-of things. If you look at pics of his layout, yoiu will understand what I am saying. His steam power is no exception. On his roster, he had clean engines, dirty engines, and a dinosaur (we won't go into that...). He had nice looking buildings, and decrepid ones. Simply put, he gave what he had a meaning for being at that very moment in time; and that certainly contrributed to balance. He was also a master of illusion. If you take a hard look at his layout, it was not as big as one might think; but John's ability to use what he had to it's fullest made it appear so.
As I pointed out, leaving that engine "assembly line black" is fine if that floats your boat, but it will lose that balance in a field in which we, to one extent or another, are using forced perspective to achieve. Using a tint of blue will achieve the illusion of distance, some lightening over detail parts will indeed bring them out of the shadows. I have sent you pics of my work, and if you look at them, they are not excessively weathered, but look lilke what they are supposed to represrent-a steam locomotive at somewhat of a distance, at work, on a real railroad, doing real things. This grabs me immensely. Good. it is my money. Just as yours is yours.
At the end of the day, it is certainly a free country, and you may do with your trains whatever grabs you-as do I.
I wish a great and wonderful evening to all. I am going to have me a Porterhouse steak-and to hell with cholesterol!
Time to feed Puppy.
Rich
Inder - it is refreshing to see someone going to Barnes and Noble to get books and looking at DVDs for information.
As for what a consolidated type engines could pull keep in mind that there were small ones, like the ones used on the Ma & Pa in Pennsylvania. Then there were the big guys, such as those used on the Pennsy and Reading railroads that had a lot more tractive effort.
Concerning your mentioning the steam dome - these were situated on the highest point on the boiler because all the controls are steam operated and the controls were supplied from either the steam dome or a turret nearby. Even if there wasn't enough steam to run the locomotive, there was steam enough to start the pumps and injectors.
Welcome to the hobby. Don't mention reading too much. There are some young contributors to this message board who might get scared off by that word!
All this talk of weathered locos has made me want to see some.
I don't want to google for some. I want to see you guys' work if possible.
Thanks.
BTW, I will most likely be printing this out and turning it into a hand book with a highlighter for quick access to info.
Thank you all
Rich,
I agree! And, I was only commenting on your specific comments to Inder. I know the quality of your modeling, and it is similar to mine, we just get there from a slightly different path sometimes.
My point was more about not over whelming the new guy with complex "musts" for good modeling.
I have much respect for the work John Allen did, but to be honest, I would not want my railroad to look like his. All layouts are a balance of art and model, exactly what balance is visually and mentially pleasing is different for all of us. - that was my other point.
And, while it may not directly apply to you and was not ment as such, many do loose sight of the forced scale perspective of smaller scales.
Sheldon
Sheldon;
I realize what you are saying-and ceertainly took no umbrage to your post. As you say, we both model about the same quality work, and perhaps from a different angle. 'Tis what makes Terra Firma spin.
My point is as I have said here; it is a sense of balance; and to me, this is carried out even on a steamer. I have found the camera to be my harshest critic-but an honest one, and it is one in which I place the most stock. I take pics of my work- as does most of us, and use thaem as a tool toward whatever degree of excellence I can achieve.
Actually, I realize Inder is probably a relative newcomer to this hobby, and he sound like a pretty good guy; one who wants to get good at his every endeavour. My thoughts, as are yours and others here, is to share my expertise for what it is worth, and perhaps in doing so, a newbie will avoid some of the garbage I have done. Have a good night all.
Rich
Quote from: Inder on September 11, 2007, 05:27:11 PM
All this talk of weathered locos has made me want to see some.
I don't want to google for some. I want to see you guys' work if possible.
Thanks.
BTW, I will most likely be printing this out and turning it into a hand book with a highlighter for quick access to info.
Thank you all
Inder.
Have a look at my work by clicking on the link in my sig.
Just a couple of thoughts on weathering--A steam loco started getting "weathered" the minute they lit a fire to it. The cinders and soot coming out the stack began settling on all approximately horizontal surfaces. If the engine were fresh from the shop, you wouldn't notice it immediately, but you would by the time she finished her run. Railroads ran the gamut as regards cleaning engines. Roads like the Pennsy seemed to not care much about cleanliness after the 1930's, at least based on the photographic record. Other roads did seem to give them a wipe-down on a semi-regular basis. Passenger locos generally got a bit more spit-shine care. Poor, struggling short lines and other down-at-the-heels lines would defer such maintenance as well.
OTOH, most locos maintained at least a bit of shine to the boilers even after heavy work, so a uniform dead flat color is not necessarily desireable.
For the modeler, you also have to keep in mind your scale, and your layout lighting. A dead black paint job will not look good in most situations, especially in HO and smaller scales. You really want a deep grey color that will look black in our (usually) less than ideal lighting situations. A lot of folks will say to use gloss paint in order to make decal application easier, which is generally sound advice. It does, though, make the weathering process a bit harder, because you will want some areas to be dead flat--frames, drivers, trucks-- that would pick up a lot of road grime and be less likely to be wiped down. Vertical areas, like cab and tender sides, could have a bit more shine, since they don't collect as much of the soot. As noted, boilers should generally have just a bit of sheen, unless your intent is to represent a hard-used and little-maintained engine.
ebtnut,
Good thoughts, as where those from Rich. Since this has gone in this direction, here are some more.
If I am starting from scratch, with a loco I have to paint anyway, like Rich, I do not use pure black. I do use gloss paint for all rolling stock. Scalecoat is my weapon of choice. After decaling, I clear coat with a semi-gloss made by mixing Scalecoat clear flat and clear gloss. I vary the gloss level from loco to loco to reflect different levels of wear/age.
Some of my roads steamers are medium grey (Erie Lackawanna)with black frames and black accents, this brings a whole new demension to weathering and color perception.
Then I weather, with a double action air brush, just a little, mostly with greys and tans that are flat. This overspray weathering flattens the areas more weathered and leaves the semi-gloss in less weathered areas, just like ebtnut discribed. I do little or no streaking, oil spots, rust, etc, etc, because in my experiance you do not notice those things from a distance in real life (unless we a talking about a derilict in the dead line at a scrap yard). And, as I said before, in HO scale at 2' you are 175' from the model!
Passenger cars and diesels are near spotless, just the lightest road grime, because of my time period and my personal taste. And, there where many roads at that time who kept such equipment very clean. Freght cars vary, but I don't go overboard there either. The biggest difference is a flatter clearcoat.
Again, in my view, it is a 1/87 model, your are never close to it even at the the closest viewing position (6" is 43 HO feet!) go outside and look at anything from 43' and tell me how much detail you can see regarding its state of weathering?
And, a ebtnut said, lighting is very important and can make a big difference. I light my layout brightly with incandecent mini flood lamps directly on the layout, with isles and non layout areas more dimly lit. Bright lighting and light weathering combine well to bring out details and colors in my opinion.
Sheldon
Hey guys,
Rogertra,
I checked out your trains, you did an awesome job with your steam engines. They got an ashy look to them and certain sections shine off like a glare.
The Great Eastern 2-10-0 is my favorite.
I also like the picture where you have the two steam engines by the garage and all around the floor there is ash or oil that is sweet.
Hello everyone,
Prior to signing up to this forum I had just purchased a Spectrum 2-8-0 and I was happy with the way it looked.
Now, after reading so much on this forum and getting advice from all of you I couldn't not weather my locomotive - I think Gene started me down on this path. By the way now I have about 25 steam locomotives. Six of them are Model Power, four of them are Bachmann standard but the rest of them are all Bachmann Spectrum. Spectrum is good stuff I don't need to tell you guys this but man...
I printed out this thread and headed to my LHS. I picked out all the stuff I needed and went to the desk and asked for advice but I didn't need any. I had everything I needed based off of this thread.
As you all know, I will be modeling Union Pacific and Nacionales De Mexico.
I found some Diesel Decals that I can use on the steam engines and they look just fine. I found plenty of pictures through google so I can designate actual engine numbers. For the actual weathering I have some books I picked up at Barnes&Noble in the bargain section and boy what a deal on these books. Now I know I can get some custom decals made because I will need to change some rolling stock to NdeM but first things first. I want to finish my locomotives.
I began work tonight. I started with the Spectrums 2-6-6-2's and so far things look good. I will take some pictures soon and post them for you guys. Mind you, this is my first shot at this.
But I wanted to run this by you guys. Based on whatever photos I find, the boilers are usually shiny. All the lines around the boiler are a matte black probably from gunk building up. The mechanism and the whole section under the boiler is a matte brownish/grayish black. A few details here and there like the coupler and snow plow can show some reddish signs of rust.
Also by making the boiler shiny it will really contrast against the matte, filthy looking bottom of the machine.
The tender will be shiny as well but the bottom portion will be dusty looking. I want to portray the railroads in a period of prosperity.
Now I know that most likely NdeM had all used locomotives but I'm sure they had a booming economy at one point they probably kept their locomotives pretty clean. I just bought a DVD titled "Ferrocarril Pacifico" and man, their equipment looked in bad shape.
Anyway,
Like always I wait for your comments and proceed from them.
Thank you all for your contributions to this thread. This has become my go-to guide when I need instructions. For pictures I got some books and google as well.
By the way, what's a good brand for airbrush equipment? I read somewhere here to just get a decent compressor at home depot.
I can't find the small hobby compressor that's down in the garage someplace along with two air brushes, so I bought one at Lowe's for $49. that included a nail gun complete with two sizes of nails and two sizes of staples. I highly recommend it.
There are seveal brands of air brushes. I just bought a single action Pasqual at a decent price.
Gene
I use air for a variety of things, such as pneumatic tools, etc; so I have a pretty good sized compressor. From this, I circuited down to the spray booth, and both filter and dry the air on site. I decided to do the drying thing because once I uses a SCUBA tank as an air supply; and with the quality of air that is used in filling tanks, there were no problems with quality.
On brushes: I have several: some Badger, and two Paasche brushes; both set up differently. There are a lot of high-quality brushes out there; I guessthe best thing to do is to read up on them, make your choice, and DO NOT skimp! If it is expensive, save your money for it. Do not buy junk; it will come back to bite you you know where!
Rich
Yeah I just bought two brushes and they were like $9.00 each.
Not overly expensive but they work nice.
They had a bunch of $2.00 brushes and so forth but they looked bad.
Well guys, here is my work in progress.
Spectrum Consolidation for my NdeM railroad. She will be the first locomotive delievered to that railroad. Keeping with NdeM tradition (I'm assuming) this was not purchased new but rather purchased from Santa Fe railroad.
I will be detailing the grime off of the exhaust a little better. I will also be adding some red around the mechanism to show some rust and so forth. I also wanna add some dust on the tender to show use.
Notice that the boiler and the Tender are both purposely shiny to show that it's a new machine I guess. I bought some matte finish but I haven't tried it. It might look better, I will try it next week. She also needs an additional decal with the Locomotive number right by the window.
I will be getting an air brush system pretty soon. So this is my first project.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/enderello/Consolidationgreat2.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/enderello/Consolidationgreat.jpg)
Oh yeah, I meant to say she's a new used machine.
So she got a new paint job when she was bought off Santa Fe.
Nice job, Inder.
Gene
Thanks Gene,
Lesson 1: When painting the wheels be careful not to get paint down on the actual wheel surface contact.
I did and after carefully scraping off all the paint from the wheel surface contact the little guy still runs a little rough without the tender. Luckily once I put the tender back on it runs normal thanks to the additional contacts on the tender.
Loco painting, especially steam locos, is an art and a science. Books could (and have been) written on the subject. A few thoughts--for masking, consider using the "blue" masking tape from 3M. It seems to have less adhesive residue problems than the traditional masking tapes. For your drivers, lay the masking tape down on a smooth, clean surface (a piece of safety glass is good) and cut thin strips of tape with your hobby knife just wide enough to cover the treads. Saves a lot of clean-up later. In general, you should disassemble the model as much as possible, to make sure you get paint everywhere it needs to be. Yes, it is a hassle, but you'll get a better job for it. Use some common sense, though. If your loco is a Bachmann or other RTR loco, and the frames are already black, leave it be--maybe use a regular paint brush to apply a bit of weathering behind the wheels to highlight it a bit. In general, use a gloss or semi-gloss paint for your base coat, so decals will be much easier to apply. Use your dulling agent and/or weathering to flatten the finish down as needed. You want to keep a bit of shine on areas like boiler shells, tender sides, etc. that don't collect dirt and soot as readily as horizontal surfaces.
Thanks for the advice.
I did have the blue masking tape in mind for use when painting my locomotives. i will certainly use that.
I have applied a coat of gloss on the boiler but I want to apply a light, or minute amount of soot on the top section of the boiler to show fallout from the smoke stack but I don't think a brush is the correct device to do this.
I do not currently own an airbrush but Gene recommended a good one.
My question is, will an airbrush be the correct device to apply a light amount of soot at the top of the boiler to show smoke fallout?
I have practiced a lot weathering my box cars to look dirty and grimy. However I also want to have some look aged and faded by the sun. I tried applying white paint but no matter how diluted I make the paint I'm not happy with the results because I see the brush stroke and pattern.
I don't know if I should try cotton swabs or maybe this needs to be put off until I purchase an airbrush. Some book mentioned weathering chalks but I'm not sure that is a good method.
Also, I purchased some broken locomotives on Ebay and I have given them a full coat of rust all over as well as some other shades of black and gray. I plan to use theses as decoration around the yard once I put my layout together. Is this something that was common to find? None of the pictures I have looked at show junked locomotives in the yards.
Anyway, I thought it would be a nice touch.
In any period older locomotives would have been retired and ultimately scrapped.
This happened intensively in the late '40s and though the 50's as railroads switched to diesels.
An HO layout that is (or was, 2 or more years ago) on display in the Wenham Museum (Wenham, MA) includes a scene that portrays a steamer being cut up. Has a bright little bulb in a circuit flashing in or by the boiler to mimic a cutting torch.
A yard might well have a "dead track" which was where retired locomotives went to await their fate. They were normally coupled together to conserve space and in no particular order. Stored locomotives - one not in active service but ready to be recalled were treated the same way.
Try dry brushing white - where you use a stiff brush and remove most of the paint with a paper towel before applying this. I've seen great work under letter using this meethod.
Chalks work well, but you need to set them with Dullcoat and apply several layers to get the proper effect.
Gene
Wow it took me a while to understand the concept but i get it.
I can't wait to try it. I will do it tonight. Thanks
Gene.
Just so happens that I picked up a partially assembled MDC 2-8-0 that I'm right in the middle of prepping for the scrap line.
First thing I did was to remove the motor so that the loco can freewheel.
I've removed the piston rods and they're currently strapped to the running boards, the stack's been capped, headlight removed and I'm blocking out the cab windows. The tender will be modelled empty, a bit of kitbashing required there, and working Kadee couplers will be added fore and aft.
Why working Kadees you may ask?
Every once in a while, the loco will become a "load" and will required to be switched out of the scrap line and into a wayfreight for haulage to Montreal, where the GER's main shops are located, for scrapping. It will reappear on the modelled portion of the railway as a loco for scrap in-transit to Montreal and will be set out onto the scrap line until room is available for it in the Montreal scrap yard.
I'm always on the look out for suitable locos that I can use to populate a 36" long scrap line. After all, I model 1958 and there were sadly many locos awaiting scrapping at many, many roundhouses.
Rogertra,
What scale is that?
Roger does HO.
Gene
Inder - Yes, the airbush is the best way to apply weathering. For soot effect, I would use something like Grimy Black. Make sure you thin it A LOT. Make a couple of light passes, then let the paint dry for a couple of minutes and see what it looks like. In weathering, you don't want to see the paint; rather you want to see the "effect" of the paint. As for weathering rolling stock, Floquil used to make a weathering color called "Dust". I don't know if they have an equivalent in thier acyrlics line or not. It was/is a greyish off-white, and again, thin it out before applying. A quick shot of Dust, and a quick shot of your thinned Grimy Black from the top will give you a quick, decent weathering job. If you can't find "Dust", try mixing up about 2 parts Reefer Grey to 1 part White, thin it down, and try that.
To create a faded look I use white paint heavily watered down.
Then I apply it on the model and as the diluted paint collects at the bottom of the model I then remove the excess amount with the brush.
The results: No brush stroke and the paint is distributed evenly throughout the model.
It's phenomenal.
There are some chemicals (no, not drugs) that, when compounded with-say-Na (salt) will create some interesting weathering.
Rich
r.cprmier.
Do tell what these secret chemicals are. I want to create this magical weathering potion.
--------
I found this guy online who creates spectacular weathered rolling stock. Unfortunately it's all HO scale and I model N scale.
But I started taking ideas from him and he's been very influential. Last night my friend and I practically cloned one of his designs. I'm so proud I almost wanna shoot him an e-mail thanking him and showing him my little clone of his art.
You guys think it's bad to borrow heavily from someone else's designs?
Inder.
Weathering is a non scale detail. it doesn't matter what scale you model, all weathering is the same. There is no such thing a "HO" scale or "N" scale or even "O" scale weathing, it's all just "weathering".
Best tip anyone can give you it start with very light weathering. It's easier to add weathering than it is to take it away.
You also don't need expensive airbrushes. I don't own one yet I'm quite happy with my weathering efforts.
Just pluck up the courage and have a go.
Thanks rogertra,
Now, if I want to post pictures here to get some tips can I do that?
Or do they have to go into the photo gallery or maybe I can link them to a website?
I don't have a website for my train pictures, do you guys recommend one?
Your biggest source of info is going to be the world around you. What you can buy you can probably figure out, and a question or two here or wherever, would certainly go far. Go out and observe how things are, what effect time and elements have had on buildings, machinery, etc. You'll get the idea.
RIch
Inder,
Check this discussion for photo posting help:
- http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,2702.0.html
Charles