Did Bachmann just acquire Williams Trains? Heard a rumor from my dealer today.
This doesn't seem like the way Bachmann operates. They already have an established brand identity, they don't need another one. Besides, why would they need or want to go into O scale anyway? It's a much different world than G or especially HO and N.
I would think that the only reason Bachmann would acquire Williams Trains. That would be, is there money to be made. Jerry Willliam started the company in 1971. That is 36 years ago. It may be that he is now old and feels it is best to sell out. Dealers come up with all kinds of information. Some of it is correct, while a lot of it is false.
Quote from: Conrail Quality on September 20, 2007, 09:20:34 PM
This doesn't seem like the way Bachmann operates. They already have an established brand identity, they don't need another one.
I have no idea whether Bachmann might acquire Williams trains or not. However Bachmann has bought existing companieis and kept their brand name in the past. Bachmann acquired Liliput in Germany, this was how they entered the German market. It is still called Liliput. In the UK Bachmann established Bachmann Branchlines selling OO scale trains. Later they expanded into N scale by purchasing the long established Graham Farish and have kept the Graham Farish name.
So, if Bachmann did want to expand into US O standard gauge they might do so by purchasing an existing brand if it was available. Does Bachmann wish to do this? I have no idea!
Hamish
Quote from: Conrail Quality on September 20, 2007, 09:20:34 PM
This doesn't seem like the way Bachmann operates. They already have an established brand identity, they don't need another one. Besides, why would they need or want to go into O scale anyway? It's a much different world than G or especially HO and N.
I could think of one reason: Bachmann already has a US-profile O-scale line of Plasticville buildings, but no O-gauge trains. If the price was right, why not acquire a quality line like Williams if it became available? It's at least plausible.
Hoping the Bach-man might chime in here... ;D
Dear gb,
There's been no such announcement from Philadelphia to date. If there is an announcement, we will certainly post it here.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Quote from: the Bach-man on September 21, 2007, 12:09:25 AM
Dear gb,
There's been no such announcement from Philadelphia to date.
If there is an announcement, we will certainly post it here.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Mark your calendar for a possible announcement on October 18th at the I-Hobby expo in Chicago, Illinois.
Dear all,
Yes, we are talking with Williams, but at this time nothing has been finalized. If/when a formal aggreement is reached, we will make an official announcement. In the meantime, enjoy your trains!
Best regards,
Bachmann Industries, Inc.
This is apparently from a letter from Jerry Williams to dealers. It seems to be legitimate, since I've seen several copies of the same exact letter on various websites. It this letter is true, it seems to me that some sort of tenative agreement, at least, was made.
Dear Williams Dealer:
"I have some important news. After 35 years, I have decided to retire from the model train business. Recently, I was approached by Bachmann Industries, and after careful consideration have decided to sell the company to them. The settlement date has not been finalized, but we expect it to be on or about September 30, 2007. Bachmann Industries has been in business since 1833 and has an impressive line of trains and accessories. Their Plasticville structures will perfectly compliment the Golden Memories Line.
All of your contact information has been given to Bachmann and company representatives will be contacting each dealer to give you more details and answer questions. They value your business as much as we do and will try to make this transition as smooth as possible. Additionally, Larry Harrington, my General Manager, will be joining Bachmann and will continue working on the O gauge line..."
NOTE: This is not the complete text of the letter. The rest contains wholesale contact information for the dealers.
Signed
Jerry Williams
Thanks CQ. My dealer must have gotten that letter. I can appreciate Bachmann not wanting to make an official announcement here until all the i's were dotted and the t's crossed on the agreements and transition plans.
Seems my Plasticville justification wasn't original! :D.
Good for Bachmann and good for O-gaugers. I owned a Williams Canadian Pacific passenger train in the early 1980s and it was very nice - extruded aluminum cars w/ interior lighting that were similar to the old Lionel models. My son loved it and they got played hard - and never broke. The F-7 AA engines were fine too. Of course that was 3-rail O on standard tinplate track. That stuff runs forever.
AL
Assuming Bachmann does end up buying Williams it will be interesting to see what they do with it. Williams makes 3 rail only, some reproductions of old Lionel models, other variously described as O-27, semi-scale or scale. At one stage they made highly detailed scale limited edition 3 rail models under the Crown Edition label. (I have no personal knowledge of their trains, I live in Australia where US 3 rail is rare).
I would expect Bachmann to continue with 3 rail "Lionel-like" models, this seems to be a sugnficant part of the US market and Bachmann probably wants a slice of it. And it fits in with the Plasticville range.
Of course Bachmann's other involvement with (US) O scale is their ON30 range. From time to time there have been suggestions that Bachmann should produce O scale standard gauge to complement the ON30 range. Perhaps Bachmann could use the Williams purchase (if it does happen) to introduce a more detailed scale range, available in both 2 and 3 rail, suitable for use together with ON30. As I indicated I would see any such range as being sold alongside a 3 rail only range based on the existing Williams models and not a replacement for it.
Just my thoughts
Hamish
Since Williams makes Golden Memories Sets, maybe we will have some plasticville buildings included with these sets for a more 50's feel.
Nice thought, GG.
O-scale is a great addition to the bachmann line, especially for the On30ers on the line.
Hope you get Williams
Rock On & Live Strong
Dusten Barefoot
QuoteWilliams makes 3 rail only, some reproductions of old Lionel models, other variously described as O-27, semi-scale or scale. At one stage they made highly detailed scale limited edition 3 rail models under the Crown Edition label. (I have no personal knowledge of their trains, I live in Australia where US 3 rail is rare).
Hamish, Williams
also made some 2-rail (DC) O-scale locos as well. Although I've been inactive in O-scale for about 15 years or so, I still have a half-dozen 2-rail O scale brass locos sitting around in boxes; one of them is a Williams
streamlined :o PRR K4s Pacific, modelled after PRR 1120
(NOT the "Torpedo" style shroud). It was a
very nice running loco! ;D
I think it'll be GREAT news for the O-scale community if Bachmann acquires Williams! ;) Tom
Dear Friends,
I am thrilled at the possibility of the purchase. Our local club runs Williams. They are considered to be fine runners, good detail and bullet proof. Well done!
Best Wishes,
Jack
I hope that this means that mass market retailers that carry Bachmann sets now (Hobby Lobby, Meijer and others) might start carrying the Williams / Bachmann Items. I love my 3 rail O stuff but it tends to be hard to find and pricey when you can find it. It would be worth it for Bachmann to sell more traditional O gauge trains to make more customers for there Plasticville line.
Whatever happens I think this is good news for the Hobby and operators like my self , who like good operating traditional sized O gage equipment and don't want to pay 40% more for an orange and blue box.
So.....
Mr. Bach-Man , anything you can officially tell us?
How about unofficially?
Are you going to add an O gauge section on the message board?
Keep us posted
Thanks
I am fairly worried about this merger. I buy williams for the fact that I don't need or want the DCS or TMCC in my trains. I also liked the fact the Williams left the catalog mostly unchanged from year to year so I didn't have to go nuts trying to fill out my fleet with the worry of "It won't be in the catalog next year!"
Also, what about the orders that are on backorder? Williams owes me a complete UP heritage set.
Quote from: PARAWULF on October 13, 2007, 02:18:18 PM
I am fairly worried about this merger. I buy williams for the fact that I don't need or want the DCS or TMCC in my trains. I also liked the fact the Williams left the catalog mostly unchanged from year to year so I didn't have to go nuts trying to fill out my fleet with the worry of "It won't be in the catalog next year!"
Also, what about the orders that are on backorder? Williams owes me a complete UP heritage set.
I found this on the Williams Web site today:
"
Due to the pending sale of the company to Bachmann Industries, we are no longer accepting orders. Many of our dealers have an ample supply of product and you may be able to find what you are looking for through one of them. Click here to locate a dealer.
Frequently asked questions:
Q: I have several items items on backorder (either direct or with a dealer). Will I still get my train?
A: YES! All backorders will be filled by Bachmann when the production of the item is complete.
Q: I need parts or service for my train. What do I do?
A: Warranty and repair issues will be handled by Bachmann, however it will take a few weeks to get the parts and service equipment in place. Please visit this site for updated information.
Q: I am a Platinum Club member. Is my membership still valid?
A: Yes, you receive updated information regarding the Platinum Club by mail.
Q: I have a billing question, what do I do?
A: Please call 410-997-7766 and leave your name and daytime telephone number, your call will be returned.
"
I think this answers you question about you back order, as to the DCS and the TMCC question I don't think you will have any thing to worry about there for a while as it will take Bachmann a little while to get things straightened out and by then there may a whole different direction that they might go in, namely a DCC system rather that a proprietary system from a Competitor.
Regards,
Andre :) :)
Quote from: PARAWULF on October 13, 2007, 02:18:18 PM
I am fairly worried about this merger. I buy williams for the fact that I don't need or want the DCS or TMCC in my trains. I also liked the fact the Williams left the catalog mostly unchanged from year to year so I didn't have to go nuts trying to fill out my fleet with the worry of "It won't be in the catalog next year!"
Also, what about the orders that are on backorder? Williams owes me a complete UP heritage set.
This is what you should really be worried about...
QuoteQ: I need parts or service for my train. What do I do?
A: Warranty and repair issues will be handled by Bachmann, however it will take a few weeks to get the parts and service equipment in place. Please visit this site for updated information.
We all know how quickly the service dept handles HO, ON30, N and G...
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
PHILADELPHIA, PA . . . Mr. Jerry Williams, President/Owner of Williams Electric Trains, Columbia, MD and Mr. Bud Reece, Senior Vice President Sales & Marketing, along with Mr. Ed Winter, Senior Vice President Finance & Operations, Bachmann Industries, Inc., Philadelphia, PA announce the acquisition of the assets of Williams Electric Trains.
After 35 years, Mr. Jerry Williams decided to retire from the model railroad business. Bud Reece had contacted Mr. Williams a year earlier and planted the seed for the possibility of this acquisition. Bachmann has been in business since 1833 and has an extensive line of model trains and accessories in HO, N, On30, and Large Scale. Reece observed that the Williams O gauge 3-rail fits perfectly into the Bachmann family and complements the O scale Plasticville® U.S.A. buildings that Bachmann has been producing for 60 years.
Reece is very pleased to also announce that Mr. Larry Harrington, General Manager of Williams for several years, will be joining the Bachmann team as General Manager of the O gauge division. "I am very happy that Larry will be joining us, since his experience and background in the 3-rail market and Williams in particular will be invaluable to us."
"We at Bachmann feel that the Williams brand is very important in the 3-rail market place. We will continue to use and promote the Williams name as "Williams by Bachmann" to capitalize on both brand names. With the help of Larry Harrington, we plan to expand the availability of Williams by Bachmann products by supporting both the current Williams dealers and our national distributors. We will certainly continue to honor warranties from Williams, and we also hope to continue the Platinum Club on a modified program, yet to be determined, plus offer and expand the club to all of our Bachmann family."
"We couldn’t have asked for a nicer gentleman than Mr. Jerry Williams to work with during the negotiation of this acquisition. Not only his patience and understanding, but his friendship, are greatly appreciated. I am very pleased that Mr. Williams has voluntarily agreed to council with Bachmann, and I for one will certainly take him up on that offer," assured Reece.
For sales information, contact Williams by Bachmann via email (sales@bachmanntrains.com), phone (l-215-533-1600), or mail (Williams by Bachmann, 1400 E. Erie Ave., Philadelphia, PA 19124).
Dear All,
Well, today's press release should answer all the immediate questions. I'm in the process of learning as much as I can about the line in order to become more conversant with it.
Have fun!
the Bach-man
Well, We'll just have to wait and see what happens, I'm still nervous, though. I love the William's product and I'd hate to see Williams by Bachman become just another O-guage 3 rail company.
I've been buying from Williams for quite a while and as I said before I like the fact that I can count on getting the roadnames of the locos and that the catalog didn't change all that much from year to year.
I still really hope I'm not forced to buy DCC, DCS or TMCC technology in my trains.
So far Bachmann has not forced people to buy expensive features they may not want. Where locomotives are DCC equipped these locos also operate on straight DC without alteration. The decoders fitted are low cost and appear to add little or nothing to the cost of the loco. The DCC and Sound versions do cost rather more but, so far at least, versions without sound are also made. I hope Bachmann keeps up this approach, including for Williams. (I know 3 rail AC is a bit different, I am not sure whether the DCC for no extra cost approach is possible for it.)
It will be interesting to see where Bachmann takes the Williams line. One possibility would be a more scale line of products, possibly available in 2 as well as 3 rail. Willams at one time made such locos. This could have some appeal to ON30 modellers wishing to add standard gauge to their narrow gauge empires as well as others. However if such a line were introduced I would expect it to be additional to the Williams line of traditional 3 rail and not a replacement for it. I am sure that Bachmann bought Williams in order to get a slice of the traditional 3 rail market.
Hamish
It seems like Bachman's track record with aquired companies is "don't fix it if it ain't broke."
As for adding scale steamers and such to the line, I think it would be great. :)
Quote from: Hamish K on October 17, 2007, 04:05:46 AM
<snip> So far Bachmann has not forced people to buy expensive features they may not want. Where locomotives are DCC equipped these locos also operate on straight DC without alteration. The decoders fitted are low cost and appear to add little or nothing to the cost of the loco. The DCC and Sound versions do cost rather more but, so far at least, versions without sound are also made. ,snip.
Hamish
If you want a 1:20.3 Bachmann 3 truck Shay factory lettered for either Westside Lumber Company or Little River Lumber Co. you have to pay $100 extra for the included DCC and sound system. Informal surveys of LS train operators show that most prefer internal battery + radio control, with straight track power DC as a close second choice. The conversion to R/C means the provided DCC + sound system a person has paid for has to be removed. This is definitely forcing people to purchase (DCC) stuff that many modelers don't want. Look for more of this as there is a 'DCC consultant' who is posting claims Bachmann Trains is fully on board with a new "standardized DCC socket" that will be in all LS locomotives. IMHO, this is just a way to enrich the DCC manufacturers and providers, not a way to satisfy market demand. We can only hope that Bachmann sees the light.
Happy RRing,
Jerry Bowers
Bachmann does make the large scale 3 truck Shay in some roadnames without sound. This includes painted unlettered, so one option is to decorate it yourself if you don't want the sound version.
I hope Bachmann never makes a locomotive with expensive additional features, e.g. DCC and Sound, without a less equipped version also being available. That some roadnames will only be available with the additional features, and others without, is I expect inevitable and personally I don't object to that as redecorating is possible. As my line is my own fictional creation, re-decorating is for me always required.
Hamish
Hey Bach-man, Any more news on the Williams merger?