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Discussion Boards => HO => Topic started by: robertjohndavis on July 20, 2014, 03:38:47 PM

Title: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: robertjohndavis on July 20, 2014, 03:38:47 PM
Hi,

I am intrigued by the announcement for a revised 4-4-0. Are there any details you can share about the new tooling? In terms of appearance will we see slightly different locomotive or just a new version of the old one?

Hopefully these will sell well and you will find a business opportunity to be more adventurous in road names. Some northeastern road names appropriate to the late 1800's would be great.

All the best,

Rob Davis
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: richg on July 20, 2014, 03:52:58 PM
Quote from: robertjohndavis on July 20, 2014, 03:38:47 PM
Hi,

I am intrigued by the announcement for a revised 4-4-0. Are there any detail you can share about the new tooling? In terms of appearance will we see slightly different locomotive or just a new version of the old one?

Hopefully these will sell well and you will find a business opportunity to be more adventurous in road names. Some northeastern road names appropriate to the late 1800's would great.

All the best,

Rob Davis

And put the air pump on the engineers side. Locos in the 1800's had the air pump on that side. I have many pictures with 1800's locos and the air pumps are on the right side.
That would require complete new tooling which I doubt will ever happen.
No doubt you could find an air pump on the fireman's side for the late 1800's locos but I have seen very few.

I would be curious to find out who in Bachmann comes up with designs/sources for their models.

Rich
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: jettrainfan on July 21, 2014, 12:46:31 PM
Based on what I noticed, they got more than just a polish. They look like a nicer version of their older runs and could be considered close cousins to the spectrum counterpart if that says anything. The wood load in the tenders seem the same and that's probably the worse part about them. That's an easy fix so hopefully these do sell well.  :)
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: Irbricksceo on July 21, 2014, 01:30:21 PM
It sure looks nice, It's out of my Era so I probably wont get one but It looks great, if a bit overpriced (but Bachmann Products always sell for lower than the MSRP anyway). A small bit of detailing could make this almost perfect. The only issue I see is that it appears to retain the Plastic Crosshead Guides, something that I have found causes problems.
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: Royce Wilson on July 22, 2014, 02:20:47 PM
The pictures that Bachmann has displayed shows the engines to be tender driven and if that is the case these are not up dated engines. >:(

There is a market for a nice 19th century 4-4-0 that is up dated to today's standards.
I don't mean to bash Bachmann and I truly hope these engines are really updated to Specturm standards and someone just used a photo of a N scale engine for the catalog.

Royce Wilson ::)
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: jettrainfan on July 22, 2014, 03:25:34 PM
From what I could tell at the NMRA show, they're not the same engine. Based on the pics though in the new products announcement; they do look the same. I didn't bother taking a closer look since I was passing by the bachmann aisle before I left so I can't confirm that the model is still tender driven or not. It was definitely a lot nicer looking though as I said in my previous post. 
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: Royce Wilson on July 22, 2014, 03:38:09 PM
Can this be confirmed by Bachmann.

Royce Wilson
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: richg on July 22, 2014, 04:10:15 PM
I now see the OP was talking about the American 4-4-0, not the Richmond 4-4-0.
This will definitely be a first for the American 4-4-0.
I believe Harold did a sound in the Bachmann American 4-4-0.
I enhanced a couple screen shots of the page and I am pretty sure I see a drive shaft. I figure Bachmann used a file photo.

It will be interesting to see how the sound install is with the size motor that has been in the tender.
I doubt Bachmann would put the motor in the loco. That will reduce the weight over the drivers.
I have put a N scale non sound decoder in my tender drive 4-4-0's with no problem. Never tried sound but I figure SoundTraxx will come up with a compact decoder.The Bachmann sound locos all have a decoder designed for Bachmann locos that are not sold by SoundTraxx to the general public.
I can easily see a compact sound decoder based on the specs for the 750.
Speaker size, no idea.

Rich
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: hminky on July 22, 2014, 04:29:18 PM
If you wanted a motor in the cab 1870's 4-4-0, the Richmond 4-4-0 mechanism will fit under the OldTyme 4-4-0 shell.

Just requires some grinding.

The reason I put sound in the OldTyme 4-4-0 was making a fleet of 4-4-0's with the Richmond mechanism too costly.

Now all of that is moot.

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1879/bachmann_4-4-0/sound/ (http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1879/bachmann_4-4-0/sound/)

The Bachmann PDF notes that the pictures are the previous edition.

Posted on the Civil War Yahoo group:

QuoteAs it happens, I was at the train show in Cleveland today so I asked the Bach-man about the 4-4-0.  Yes, it is being redesigned but they did not have a sample yet to show.  There will be new tooling but some existing parts will continue to be used.  Nobody there was able--or willing-- to say just what will be new and what will continue.  They did say the motor will move to the cab and there will be Sound Value sound in the tender, so my guess is they will retool only what is needed to make these changes and continue the rest, but, again, that's just my guess.  They also said it will be improved and upgraded but will still be standard line, not Spectrum.  Sound Value sound I take to be not so deluxe as Tsunami sound.  Delivery may be by the end of the year so I suppose we will just have to wait until then to find out for sure.

John Bopp

Harold

Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: richg on July 22, 2014, 04:50:20 PM
Very good. Missed the part about the motor being moved to the loco. Sure sounds like a major upgrade. Very nice for the old time modellers.

Rich
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: Doneldon on July 22, 2014, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: Royce Wilson on July 22, 2014, 02:20:47 PM
The pictures that Bachmann has displayed shows the engines to be tender driven and if that is the case these are not up dated engines. >:(Royce Wilson ::)

Royce-

Not true. There could very easily be a whole new product with a tender-mounted motor. Remember, those old 4-4-0s were
really small. A motor small enough to fit inside the boiler, especially if they wanted it not to fill the cab, would have to be
either very tiny (little power) or very expensive (market limiting).
                                                                                                    -- D
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: richg on July 22, 2014, 09:06:08 PM
Quote from: Doneldon on July 22, 2014, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: Royce Wilson on July 22, 2014, 02:20:47 PM
The pictures that Bachmann has displayed shows the engines to be tender driven and if that is the case these are not up dated engines. >:(Royce Wilson ::)

Royce-

Not true. There could very easily be a whole new product with a tender-mounted motor. Remember, those old 4-4-0s were
really small. A motor small enough to fit inside the boiler, especially if they wanted it not to fill the cab, would have to be
either very tiny (little power) or very expensive (market limiting).
                                                                                                    -- D


Been said the motor is going to be in the loco. With the suggested prices, this will not be a tender drive.

Rich
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: Bucksco on July 22, 2014, 10:33:44 PM
The new 4-4-0 will have the motor located in the boiler. The tender will house the eletronics and speaker. The loco is currently in the design phase - we used our current 4-4-0 model for illustration purposes.
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: Doneldon on July 23, 2014, 03:50:31 AM
Quote from: Yardmaster on July 22, 2014, 10:33:44 PM
The new 4-4-0 will have the motor located in the boiler. The tender will house the eletronics and speaker. The loco is currently in the design phase - we used our current 4-4-0 model for illustration purposes.

B'man-

Thanks for the clarification. We'd have been going around and around on this forever, and you know how
much some of us hate just going around and around.
                                                                                   -- D
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: hminky on July 24, 2014, 06:36:21 AM
Quote from: Yardmaster on July 22, 2014, 10:33:44 PM
The new 4-4-0 will have the motor located in the boiler. The tender will house the eletronics and speaker. The loco is currently in the design phase - we used our current 4-4-0 model for illustration purposes.
Please put at least 28" diameter tender wheels on the model and not those atypical 18" V&T wheels.

28" wheels:

(http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1879/bachmann_4-4-0/sound/image/obj25geo20pg1p33.jpg)

31" wheels:

(http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/1879/lower_mantua/image/cars_loco.JPG)

Thank you
Harold
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: Royce Wilson on July 24, 2014, 08:03:04 AM
Harold has a good plan! ;D.That looks good.

Royce
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: Royce Wilson on August 02, 2014, 08:30:39 AM
I hope that more folks than Harold and I care about this project.

Royce
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: rogertra on August 02, 2014, 05:02:51 PM
Quote from: Royce Wilson on August 02, 2014, 08:30:39 AM
I hope that more folks than Harold and I care about this project.

Royce

Nope.  you're the only two.  ;)

Cheers

Roger T.

Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: richg on August 02, 2014, 07:27:02 PM
Harold is in other forums and some are following him. I have used his suggestions for pick-ups and they work very well for the tender drive locos, especially when running DCC. Really needed. Four wheel pick-ups on the tenders are needed, even with the Bachmann 4-4-0 and low driver 4-6-0 with the shorter tender.

Rich
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: rogertra on August 02, 2014, 09:02:23 PM
Quote from: richg on August 02, 2014, 07:27:02 PM
Harold is in other forums and some are following him. I have used his suggestions for pick-ups and they work very well for the tender drive locos, especially when running DCC. Really needed. Four wheel pick-ups on the tenders are needed, even with the Bachmann 4-4-0 and low driver 4-6-0 with the shorter tender.

Rich

Bachmann as well as all other manufacturers should have all wheel pick up on all their tender wheels,  rather than one side on the front truck and the other side on the rear truck.  Surely that is just a pennies in cost improvement but makes a major improvement in DCC pick up.

Hint, hint Mr. B.


Cheers

Roger T.


Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: hminky on August 02, 2014, 10:41:15 PM
Manufacturers should use the journal pickups utilized in N-scale.

Less friction and better pickup. The Athearn/MDC HO old time locomotives used pickups in the journals so it ain't that hard.

Harold
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: richg on August 03, 2014, 12:46:19 AM
My Roundhouse DCC 4-4-0, 2-6-0 and 2-8-0 have four wheel journal pick-ups. Very nice arraignment.

Rich
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: macbmac1 on August 22, 2014, 12:04:54 AM
Hello:

Long time lurker, but now that Bachmann has announced the new American, I can't wait!!  I've done a couple re-motors / DCC / Sound ala Harold, and they are nice runners.  As for the wheels, yes, anything bigger than what's on there now.  As for the V&T, most of their loco lead wheels, as well as tender wheels, were 26"; 30" would seem appropriate.  Just my inputs.

Mike
Pahrump, NV
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: PoorInRichfield on August 29, 2014, 11:12:54 PM
I've been dreaming of the day when the Bachmann American 4-4-0's are re-released to the same level of detail and quality as the Spectrum 4-4-0s (of which I own a few).  I've got my fingers crossed that the new American locomotives aren't just the old models with sound boards crammed in. </ End dream sequence>  ;)
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: Texianbear54 on September 01, 2014, 05:19:49 PM
Bachmann as well as all other manufacturers should have all wheel pick up on all their tender wheels,  rather than one side on the front truck and the other side on the rear truck.  Surely that is just a pennies in cost improvement but makes a major improvement in DCC pick up.

Hint, hint Mr. B.

Cheers

Roger T.

Roger makes a great point, as well as those who suggest journal pickup; everything possible to increase electrical pickup, please! 

But one more point, and I encourage others to voice their opinion on this as well:  Please consider releasing an UNLETTERED model, preferably with a Russia iron boiler, for those of us--in fact the majority--that do not model the UP or CP. 

Thanks, and I look forward to seeing the new models!

Doug Weiskopf





[/quote]
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: richg on September 01, 2014, 06:12:23 PM
Below is what I have in some HO steamers and Bachmann should go this way. Very good pickup.
Both sides identical.
Ok, cost.
I have never run a company so I have no idea on how much it would increase the cost of the loco.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/richg1998/Tenderpickups-1.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/richg1998/media/Tenderpickups-1.jpg.html)

Rich
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: NYSW3614 on September 04, 2014, 09:34:34 AM
What great news that Bachmann is updating this model.  Please also give some consideration to updating the livery on the UP 119 and CP 60.  Here's some sites:

http://www.nps.gov/gosp/historyculture/upload/jupiter%202-2.pdf

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/promontory/

Joshua
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: PoorInRichfield on November 08, 2014, 03:44:07 PM
I just got back from TrainFest in Milwaukee, where I noticed the Bachmann booth had no old time American 4-4-0's on display.  :-\  I spoke to the representative and he said the new version isn't ready yet.   Aside from supporting DCC, the other good news is that the motor will no longer be in the tender.  Apparently there will be a "micro motor" in the locomotive itself which is nice because that eliminates the silly looking plastic drive rod between the cab and tender.

Unfortunately, even the literature they had only has photos of the old models, so it's still a mystery if this new release will look more like a Spectrum loco or remain toy looking.
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: Bucksco on November 10, 2014, 10:57:48 AM
The model is being redesigned and will be significantly better than the older model. That being said it will be a standard line model - not a Spectrum model.
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: PoorInRichfield on January 25, 2015, 02:08:26 PM
Still no word on a release date or even a teaser photo for these new locos?  ???

My wife rented Disney's 1956 movie, "The Great Locomotive Chase (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049279/)" last weekend, and now I really, really, REALLY want a fleet of American 4-4-0's!  :P

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/2/Open/Disney/The%20Great%20Locomotive%20Chase/_derived_jpg_q90_600x800_m0/glcd5hb.jpg?partner=allmovie_soap)
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: BaltoOhioRRfan on January 25, 2015, 03:06:12 PM
Quote from: PoorInRichfield on January 25, 2015, 02:08:26 PM
Still no word on a release date or even a teaser photo for these new locos?  ???

My wife rented Disney's 1956 movie, "The Great Locomotive Chase (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049279/)" last weekend, and now I really, really, REALLY want a fleet of American 4-4-0's!  :P

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/2/Open/Disney/The%20Great%20Locomotive%20Chase/_derived_jpg_q90_600x800_m0/glcd5hb.jpg?partner=allmovie_soap)


Like this?

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10929215_911770185523117_7127702384691044662_n.jpg?oh=e3bd7baea17b2bb2e6313a8082fc4295&oe=555D2945&__gda__=1431975677_387646a223ace94d34504e614ec6e352)
Theres my 4-4-0 fleet so far.
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: PoorInRichfield on July 04, 2015, 12:11:58 AM
The "revised" 4-4-0's were announced a year ago, but still not available?  ???  I see they are now listed as "coming soon" with price from $239 - $315.  For that much, they better look WAY better than the current models. 

http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=258_276_978
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: wm_turnbull on July 17, 2015, 11:26:03 PM
Just checking in after a few years off this forum, the 4-4-0 is still a serious modeling quandary of mine and I am still very much looking forward to this model.
The classic 4-4-0 balloon stack locomotives were probably what attracted me to railroading as a kid, and years later they nothing revives that early spirit quite like those early engines.  With all of the current appeal of modern high tech railroads, the early 4-4-0s have that broad and universal primordial grip that is tough to deny.
I look forward to seeing how this model will come out.
I plan on modifying a couple of these to mid 1860s fashion and really taking advantage of the small motor hidden away.
Title: Re: Revised 4-4-0
Post by: PoorInRichfield on September 06, 2015, 10:37:53 AM
There's a light at the end of the tunnel!   Apparently the new 4-4-0's will be available in November.   You can see some photos of them about half-way down this page:

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/23530?page=2