If you were Bachmann what would be your next loco in On30 ? This means your head [profit] has to rule your heart. Which loco would make the most money.?
USA is their largest single market, but their non-US business is developing, and they want to appeal to a wider audience.
Personally, I think a larger non-tender loco is missing from the roster, like a Baldwin 4-6-0 or Alco 2-6-2, which were widespread after WW1.
But probably a 3-truck Shay would please the boss.
So, based on a one loco suggestion it would be the Shay.
What do you guys propose ?
The 3-truck shay would be nice. i would make it able to change the type stack on it and to change where it is wood oil or coal. like the 2-8-0.
The 4-6-0 would also be a good idea. You can make the 4-6-0 in many different road names. From Railroad one the east coast like the ET&WNC to the Rio Grande Southern in Colorado. It would come with a stright stack but would be able to change too. It would also come with different oil wood are coal for the tender to cary.
a third idea would be a mallet that would come in two tidderent versions like a 2-6-6-2 with a tender or a 2-6-6-2T tank engine. These would make good logging railroad engines.
Asian Life referred to a larger non
Sorry, hit the wrong button just as I had stated.
To continue
Asian Life mentioned a larger non tender 4-6-0 or 2-6-2, was this a reference to the WW1 2 foot gauge locos? If so the 2-6-2t would be the better bet as it was operated by the USA army (made by Baldwin but similar to the ALCOs) as well as the Britsh and French Armies and various postwar operaters. The US army did not I think have any Baldwin 4-6-0ts and I expect that a USA army lettered version would be desirable for the US market. Despite the wheel arrangement these are smallish locos, (about 16 tons) between the Porters (about 8) and the Forney (28). They could be a good choice, but they are not that well known in the USA. The larger 4-6-0 tender locos mentioned by Chatz473 are better known in the USA but do not really fit the stated Bachmann policy of only making locos plausible for 30 inch gauge (they are really 3 foot only gauge locos) and would be rather large compared to the other Bachmann offerings.
Another possibility is an outside frame 2-6-2 tender loco similar to one of the Maine locos, these are well known in the USA and similar locos were exported to a number of countries in various gauges, including 30 inch. Should appeal to Maine modellers as a companion to the Forney and would look well with the 2-8-0 and the new 4-4-0.
However if I was Bachmann I think my next loco would be a Heisler. Well known and popular in the USA and there were at least two 30 inch gauge examples (Lukens steel). A 3 truck Shay would probably be the alernative, also very well known and there were, in Chile, 60 ton 3 truck Shays on 30 inch gauge track.. Both of these should have wide appeal, but as a (granted very different) Shay already exists the Heisler would seem the choice for the next loco. The Maine 2-6-2 would be the third choice, for the reasons I mentioned above.
I am not Bachmann, so who knows? but I would not be surprised to see the 3 locos mentioned above appear in the next hald dozen years or so. My personal choice, a "Puffing Billy" 2-6-2 tank from Australia . However I can't see Bachmann making these as they are not North American, or well known there, despite being designed by Baldwin and of typical American appearance.
Hamish
Sorry again, not my afternoon. I don't know why the face appeared, i meant that the Porters were 8 tons.
Hamish
Hamish-
correct - a non-tender, i.e. tank loco.
re the WW1 locos you are right, they are 2 foot gauge- As such a much more personal choice- would scale up nicely to 30 inch, but as you say not necessarily fit the Bachmann philosophy- As [imaginary] CFO I wonder if I could change that ?
I did think about the Heisler, partcicularly given the various comments posted on this site.
On a separate issue have you bought any stuff from Ozsteam- looks pretty good stuff on website.
ASIANLIFE
I believe some ex WW1 locos were regauged to 30 inch so I see them as suitable, but probably not familiar enough to US buyers.
I haven't bought any of the OZSTEAM stuff although I too am considering some of the kits - I have seen on other lists nice things posted about them.
Hamish
I propose the 4-6-0. I would have the engine in different road names, as well as different stacks, tender, cab and piolets.
Caped Stack for the ET&WNC
The Staight stack on the RGS 20
Wood cab with 2 windows for the RGS
Steel Cab W/3 Windows for ET&WNC
I would have the 2 different tenders for the engines, I do not know what the thin one is called for the RGS, nor do I know what kind of tender is on the Old ET&WNC 4-6-0.
I would have the regular cow catcher piolet on both Locos, but have an optional show plow, also the Tweetsie Ten-wheeler will have an air perserve on it, and the RGS will not.
Just my suggestions
Rock On & Live Strong
Dusten Blake Barefoot
Definitely would go for the Shay, modern Type, 3-Truck - not only to please the Boss,...
Or - a Heisler, just taking the Drawings of the G-scale Heisler, that´ll do.
Bachmann loves Geared Engines, that´s for sure. So, give all those Loggers out there, some more useful equipment...
Kind regards, Tom
SRRL 2-6-2 no 24 obviously :D
You know how many here would love to have the original 2-6-0 mogul with DCC and sound? It's just about perfect in size and configuration. Just about everyone, I would think. So perhaps they could work on that and someday produce one. Meanwhile, we can play with the new 4-4-0's and the rest of the magnificent Bachmann On30 line of locos.
Ken
Afer ww! American N G ttank locos spread acros europe and some UK NG lines bought some (Acouple have been restored and running today)I seem to decall that they were 4 6 0tank locos and were in the main 24 inch gauge
So Food for thought Mr Riley ????
If not as aresult of a G scale loco of yester =year how about the American built 2 4 2 tank loco that ran on the Lynton and Barnstable rly with some similar styles sold to various British ex Colonies
you must still have the Draeings so little research needed
Best regard s
Brian
A good starting point for information on the WW1 light railways is http://www.wdlr.org.uk/WDLR/ (http://www.wdlr.org.uk/WDLR/)
This thread is drifting a bit into personal wish lists and away from its focus of what Bachmann should make to maximise profit. As I see it the ideal loco for Bachmann is one that is popular with americans but also has appeal to others, is plausible as a 30 inch gauge loco (although may not be a model of an actual 30 inch gauge loco), as this picks up those who regard their layout as30 inch as well as those regarding their layouts as 3 foot or 2 foot, one that fits in well with Bachmann's existing range and is not too big as many ON30 layouts are small with tight curves. While the WW1 locos meet many of these criteria how popular they would be with americans I am not sure about, they seem to be better known in the UK and europe, probably because they were extensively used on anarrow gauge lines there after ww1 and some are preserved.
The Bachmann 4-4-0 shows this thinking, a type popular with americans, a prototype with an american connection, (close to the Mt gretna locos) but also similar to exported locos, and small so as to look right with existing products. While it is not the choice of every-one it may well have a wider appeal than a larger 4-4-0 that would only be suitable as an american 3 foot gauge loco and might have trouble with tight curves.
MMI is producing larger, specifically 3 foot gauge locos but their operation is different from Bachmann's, higher priced, smaller production runs of limited edittions - they can afford to concentrate on one market segment (provided it is a reasonable size).
A Heisler seems to me to fit the above criteria well, what else might? What different critweria would also maximise the potential market for a loco?
Hamish
Yes! The original Baldwin 2-6-0 with the uneven driver spacing. could use the same boiler and tender from the 4-4-0. Royce
If I were the CFO, I would do whatever Mr. Riley wanted to do. He has a really great batting average. In terms of what would make the most money, any CFO is going to base his/her decision on past performance. My guess is that they would make a spreadsheet, showing each loco, the profit margin on each, and the total number sold, and make decisions based on that. My guess is also that the current a strategy, which was explained so well by Hamish K., is working well, and is likely to continue. That probably means more mostly metal, highly detailed locos from the Baldwin catalog, which work in the US but also have some international appeal.
In terms of locos from other countries, I think Bachmann could duplicate their On30 success in the UK and Germany, working through their brands already active in those countries. I was surprised to find that the UK arm of Bachmann already has a line of HOn30 trains that look very cool.
;) ;)
Hi all
I would have to go with two engines.
1st. A three truck Shay or a Nice class B two truck Shay around 55 tons.
2nd. Up dated 2-6-0, that engine needs a over haul bad with a raised up coal load to help with sound system, and be DCC ready.
(http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/catalog/image/products/25299_thumb.jpg)
Happy RR.
shayman
My two cents worth.
I would look at a OF2-6-2
Tender version of a Maine 2-6-2
Tank version Puffing Billy
Slide or Piston Valve options.
Extension of front frame add 4wheel truck, piston valve cylinders and you have the Beacon Rly's 4-6-2 Baldwin (orginal 2ft gauge from South Africa).
Similar front end, loose the rear truck for Baldwin 4-6-0s operating in
South America on the 2½ft EFOM
Loose one front, one rear truck and have a chassis for an articulated ala
Mautua with their 2-6-6-2 from two 2-6-2 chassis's . Piston valves and choice of tender or tank version
Loose both rear trucks turn one chassis around and seperate them
to allow a Kitson or Beyer Garratt body to be added.
Ken
GWN
I truly believe they need to finish off the geared loco's. Give 'em the Heisler.
I personally am sooooo glad the 4-4-0 is on it's way. Now if I could just get a Gandy Dancer, AKA Hand car, to go with my few moguls & trolley's, I'll be in Model train Heaven.
Barry
The gandy dancer,"hand car" can be got from Wiesman models. he has remade the old Durango Press hand car in On3. the hand car is white metal,fun to build and can be gauged to On30 very easy. and if you are modeling the early 20th century ,he also has the On3 Fairmont gasoline speeder.it is white metal and a remake of the old Period Minitures kit.
If you want to keep it in the 19th century,Wiesman has also remade the old Period Minatures velocipide,now that is a fun kit to build!
I do not work for Wiesman and no I am not related to him. these are very nice kits and everyone in On30 needs to check them out.
We owe Wiesman a big thanks for bringing out a lot of old kits for the hobby. most of them he has updated. like the RGS plow flanger 02 and the Westside Lumber snow plow now have one piece plow blades so you do not have to be a master modeler .
Royce ;D
I like all the current production. At this time I do not plan to purchase anything else. But, if some one built a Class A Climax: vertical boiler 4 wheel, vertical boiler 2 truck, or T-boiler 2 truck,then I could become enthusiastic again. Yes, these are too small and too simple but they would also be too fun.
Royce,
I've been looking at the velocipede from Weisman for some time now , a short spur from the doctor's bldg., to the main line, would be a great place to display it. I'll need to mount a black bag on the back though.
I really want the Gandy Dancer to be powered, and used as a track Inspection vehicle.
Barry
Shays sell
If I recall there were 60 cm gauge rail lines built during WW I to bring supplies to the front. The engines were dinky but might do for an On30 prototype. Isn't 60 cm close to two feet?
Unfortunately, the Bachmann CEO has to think about what sells, not what a few modelers want.
There are lots of great prototypes out there.
On second thought, IF I were the CFO, I would be asking why Bachmann doesn't take a lesson from the kitbashers [and from Baldwin, for that matter], and re-use existing components to create new locos. For example, they could use the power unit and maybe an extended boiler from the old 2-6-0 to create a new 4-6-0, similar to this:
(http://www.lafterhall.com/osw05_034s.jpg)
The upside is that these older components have already been designed and engineered, so they would [theoretically] be less expensive to build, adding to the profit margin. I say theoretically, because I don't know everything about this type of manufacturing, and the fact that Bachmann hasn't done this yet may indicate that it's not really that great of an idea.
My other question as CFO would be, why doesn't Bachmann do more "Silver Series" level locos in On30, like the 2-6-0, with the obvious addition of DCC? These seem to sell at about 1/2 the price of the Spectrum level locos, due to more plastic parts, and that lower price can mean more sales, especially to the collector types.
Still, based on the number of requests, and Bachmann's history, I would expect a Spectrum Heisler very soon. As CFO, I would back that decision, even though I'm not into geared locos personally.
That RGS tenwheeler would be hard to pass up,man that looks nice!
Royce
If I were the CEO the next locomotive would defiantly be a 4-6-0. Not just any 4-6-0 but the SPNG #9, the Slim Princess. I think the Southern Pacific name would appeal to some standard gauge modelers making the jump to narrow gauge because it's a familiar name that operated up to 1960 and still exists today.
I know all of the other locomotives Bachmann has produced were Baldwin catalog models but some are a little stange for my taste :-\. A prototypically correct 4-6-0 would be far more popular because it appeals to both prototype and freelanced modelers. It also makes a great sister locomotive to the 2-8-0. Seems like a no brainier to me. ;D
Travis in Mesa
Here's a little information from the http://www.girr.org/girr/relics/spng/spng.html web site.
Locomotive No. 9, a 4-6-0, was built by the Baldwin Locomotive Works, November 1909 for the Nevada-Calif.-Oregon Railway as there No. 9. It was acquired by the Southern Pacific Railroad, September 1, 1929, rebuilt and put in service on the Owens Valley line Feb. 21 1930 as the S P No. 9. It was put on stand-by service when the diesel electric locomotive was put in service, Oct. 1954, was retired when the railroad was abandoned. The locomotive was donated to the City of Bishop and moved to Laws for display, April 30, 1960.
Locomotive Data
* Builder's Number 34035
* Cylinders are 16" in diameter with a 20" stroke
* Drive wheels are 44" in diameter
* Boiler pressure was 180 pounds
* Tractive effort of 17,800 pounds
* Weighs 87,150 pounds
* Tender has a capacity of 1,800 gals. oil and 3,000 gals. water
The engine is displayed at the head of a short train of wood cars. The cab is open to visitors and the bell works fine. Every kid that climbed in the cab rings the bell.
Most SP engines ran on oil as both wood and coal are rather scarce in the eastern Sierra. SP used the lowest grade of oil that they could get and these locos smoked heavily even when fired correctly.
Great link, and great suggestion. Thanks AZ, I'm with you 100%.
(http://www.girr.org/girr/relics/spng/spng_9_small.jpg)
(http://www.flixya.com/content_photos/files/bigbare125228.jpg)
Now this a a ten-wheeler, this locomotive would be a great 4-6-0 for kits and stuff for the RGS & Nevada enigne, all you need are different tenders, and stacks, also cabs, but that is it. ;D ;)
This engine does have 3 windows on the cab, one is sealed up, also the color scheme was: black boiler jacket and domes, green head lamp, cab w/black roof and green tender, red only on the doors and outside windows. NO BRASS.
I think what a lot of folks would like is a updated box car that has removeable ladders,doors and such. so the doors can be hung to the right if you want with minimal trouble. :o
Royce
I vote for a 24-25 foot steel box car based on an EBT design. It would go well with the EBT 2-bay hoppers already in the Bachmann line.
Deerfield River Models is producing an EBT caboose kit so a steel EBT styled box would let you run trains that look like an EBT freight.
I did not know that Deerfield was making the caboose,thanks for the heads up! ;D
Maybe we need to pester Bachmann for the EBT 2-8-2.
Royce
Reworking the 2-6-0 to have DCC & Sound is a good idea, especially if it means adding all-wheel pickup to the tender. Adding a 4-6-0 to the line is also an excellent suggestion. Doing these two simultaneously, using as many common parts as possible, such as tender, cab, boiler (maybe with an interchangeable smokebox) is a great idea. Using a new, common drive with non symmetrical driver centers would also be an improvement that would be useful to more modelers, not increase the cost for the sets already using the existing 2-6-0, and would result in a new & slightly different 2-6-0. If the tenders were to be made available separately, owners could easily upgrade their existing 2-6-0's.
Doing a Maine type 2-6-2 with tender, especially if it was SR&RL #24, would definately be more than I could stand however! (I can only hope!)
Doing an additional boxcar, but longer (28') & narrower (6-1/2' or 7') in the style of the Maine two footers, and with right-opening doors, would go well with the Forneys.
As an added note: Now that the boxcar has been re-worked & improved with the lowered frame and separately applied ladders and grab irons, (a big improvement) there really needs to be some grab irons added on the left of the car side. How else is a 1/48 scale brakeman going to be able to use that stirrup step?
Regards,
Bill Nielsen
Oakland Park, FL
I agree a larger 2 truck Shay would be nice but I would expect the order to be a Heisler and then a 3 truck Shay before another 2 truck, simply because no versions have been done.
Protoype 30 inch gauge 2 truck Shays were made up to about 42 tons and 30 inch gauge 3 truck Shays up to about 60 tons, so there is plenty of choice for models that would appeal to both those modelling 3 foot and those modelling 30 inch gauge roads.
Hamish
Sorry. the above post was meant for the Shay thread.
Hamish
If I were the CFO, I would look at past history and what the Ten-Wheeler did for making G-scale so popular. Considering that the drawings, etc for the loco and rolling stock already exist, I think I would push along these lines for my next On30 foray.
Plus, in On30, there ain't nuthin' purtier than ET&WNC #12 would be! Or 10, 11, and 14 for that matter!
Matt Bumgarner
Quote from: Matt Bumgarner on November 10, 2007, 04:24:50 PM
If I were the CFO, I would look at past history and what the Ten-Wheeler did for making G-scale so popular. Considering that the drawings, etc for the loco and rolling stock already exist, I think I would push along these lines for my next On30 foray.
Matt Bumgarner
The 4-6-0 has been the main train set loco in Large Scale and is relatively inexpensive compared to some of the other large Scale locos. Thus it has been a very popular starter loco . That role in ON30 has been taken by the 2-6-0, with similar results to that of the 4-6-0 in Large Scale. Are you proposing replacing the 2-6-0 with a 4-6-0? I am not sure that Bachmann would want to spend the money involved as long as the 2-6-0 is still selling. As an additional loco it would not have the train set role and would probably have to be relatively more expensive. Given this it would be performing a different role, and the Large Scale experience would be no guide as to its success.
Hamish
I would use my existing drawings to save money and produce the gramps tank car in On30, also the 3 cylinder shay and the heisler. I think if new drawings were in order, I would do a ten wheeler like RGS 20.
Personally, I've got a few On30 Moguls, and I would find it very difficult to pass up any 4-6-0. And while the idea of using existing Mogul components to build a 4-6-0 might sound like a good idea, Bachmann always seems to go the extra mile, and makes each loco unique, without re-using any parts. So I suspect that the 4-6-0 would be different enough from the Mogul to interest a number of modelers. It's just like in LS: Bachmann started with the 4-6-0, but made two types of Moguls, I think. And the 4-6-0 is still around.
I think the same idea would apply to the Heisler. I mean, it's another logging loco, just like the Shay and Climax, so wouldn't a Heisler affect the sales of the other logging locos? I don't think so, judging by the comments on this board, and as CFO, I would probably be pushing for the Heisler to be the next release, even though I have very little interest in buying one myself.
Still, most CFO's are going to make decisions based on past sales numbers, and we can only guess what those numbers really are.
Why limit the discussion to steam locomotives? Bachmann's gas-mechanical critter is very popular, and as we are designing for a worldwide market, I would add a short four-axle diesel locomotive. And considering the hundreds of body kits that Boulder Valley Models has sold to fit over Bachmann GE 44-ton and 70-ton mechanisms, Bachmann already has the perfect power unit for a diesel of its choosing. Although Europe is still building narrow gauge diesels today, to promote more sales I would pick a model that fits with the steam to diesel transition era.