Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => On30 => Topic started by: Dbarefoot on September 27, 2016, 09:17:28 PM



Title: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Dbarefoot on September 27, 2016, 09:17:28 PM
Bachmann has duplicates of most of it's On30 stock. 2 styles of 4-4-0s, 2 porters,  3 geared engines, 2 articulateds, etc. Now how about an 8-18d 2-6-0 Locomotive. It's a bit smaller than a the Glenbrook engine,  but still a beauty. I request the 8-18d because it would also be an easy convert to an 8-18c 4-4-0. It's time to branch out into some 19th century locomotives.

You can't say no to this pretty little thing.

(http://static.uglyhedgehog.com/upload/2015/5/25/thumb-1432596886397-_mg_3684.jpg)

Rock On!
~Dusten


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: ksivils on September 28, 2016, 06:43:28 PM
I'd by one and then follow your suggestion and promptly convert it to a 4-4-0.


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: p51 on September 29, 2016, 01:43:23 PM
While I do have a soft spot for 2-6-0s for a reason I can't explain, I think any good representation of a 19th century-looking loco in On30 in any class/wheel arrangement would probably be welcomed by modelers.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5MnDBhzMc7Q/maxresdefault.jpg)


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Dbarefoot on September 30, 2016, 06:51:46 PM
I could modify the engines to look like ET&WNC #1 and #2, aswell as my personal railroad of the Barefoot & Southern. I've ventured into computer modeling, but nothing is as fun as hands on modeling. The 8-18d 2-6-0s would be perfect I mean perfect for most kitbashers, and protojunkies alike.

Rock On!
~Dusten


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: ksivils on October 01, 2016, 11:06:32 AM
As much as I would love to see either the 4-4-0 or 2-6-0, I doubt it would happen.

These little beasts require too broad a turning radius for On30 and I imagine there is a limit to how much alteration can be done to the design to make a model of one of these take the 18 inch curves required for most On30 pikes.

If it can be done, I'll buy two. ;D


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Kevin Strong on October 03, 2016, 02:00:09 AM
These little beasts require too broad a turning radius for On30 and I imagine there is a limit to how much alteration can be done to the design to make a model of one of these take the 18 inch curves required for most On30 pikes.

How do you figure? The current 2-6-0 has flanged drivers on all three axles, and fits around 18" without any issues at all. This mogul would have a slightly longer wheelbase, but the center driver is blind. If an HO Mantua 2-10-0 Decapod can fit around an 18" radius, so can this one. (The large-scale version fits around a 30" radius!)

In terms of the 4-4-0, Bachmann already makes one On30 4-4-0 and also the 0-4-4 Forney. If I'm not mistaken, those fit around 18" radius curves.

I think there's definitely a market for locos like this, especially with these colorful paint schemes. When I think of the folks who run their On30 among Dept. 56 villages and the like, these colorful Victorian-era paint schemes would be an absolute perfect fit. Likewise, for those modeling rural narrow gauge around 1890s - 1910s, I think they'd fit in very well as well. I'm not sure the colorful paint would be quite the right fit for the Duct Tape & Bailing Wire-type of backwoods railroads, but there's no reason Bachmann couldn't do a "basic black" version as well.

Oh, and Bachmann, while we're talking about cross-pollenation of moguls, I'd really love to see the On30 Mogul brought out in 1:20.3.

Later,

K



Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: p51 on October 03, 2016, 03:29:09 PM
I could modify the engines to look like ET&WNC #1 and #2
Hmm. I hadn't even thought of that. I model the ET&WNC in the 40s, but yeah, you make a very interesting case for that.
I think there's definitely a market for locos like this, especially with these colorful paint schemes. When I think of the folks who run their On30 among Dept. 56 villages and the like, these colorful Victorian-era paint schemes would be an absolute perfect fit. Likewise, for those modeling rural narrow gauge around 1890s - 1910s, I think they'd fit in very well as well. I'm not sure the colorful paint would be quite the right fit for the Duct Tape & Bailing Wire-type of backwoods railroads, but there's no reason Bachmann couldn't do a "basic black" version as well.
Very good points here. Maybe Bachmann might pay heed to them. Heck, they could always release a 'dressed up 18th century' version of their 4-4-0, as well?


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Dbarefoot on October 05, 2016, 09:38:50 AM
It would make sense since Bachmann would only need to scale down, and slightly modify the tooling from their G scale versions of the locomotive. It would be great for all modelers.

Rock On!
~Dusten


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: hminky on October 05, 2016, 10:33:43 AM
It would make sense since Bachmann would only need to scale down, and slightly modify the tooling from their G scale versions of the locomotive. It would be great for all modelers.

Rock On!
~Dusten
Having designed plastic molds and mechanical devices it ain't that simple.

Harold


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Dbarefoot on October 07, 2016, 01:58:52 AM
I know it's harder than it looks to do that. I'm just taking the example of the Ten Wheelers. Oh well I guess I am just stuck making 3d models, before some model manufacture actually builds the goods. Which may never be done any time soon  :(

(http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/4bfa4b98280cd3a71b9049688026525f.jpg)

Rock On!
~Dusten


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: NevinW on October 07, 2016, 01:13:52 PM
All I know is that if Bachmann came out with a 8-18d 2-6-0 Locomotive or a similar 4-4-0 or something similar, it would be the end of my HO T&T as would immediately complete the jump to On30.  I would probably end up modeling the Eureka and Palasade. 


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Dbarefoot on October 11, 2016, 11:12:00 PM
Let's take a vote to see who want's one. I'm not trying to bug everyone, but I would like to see this topic replied to at least once a day with someone who wants one. I guess that's one reason why some people are leaving Bachmann or On30; because there's nothing new in the loco department, and only so much you can do to the existing ones. Just my opinion. So let's see if anyone else want's some more 19th century locomotives like the 8-18d 2-6-0, 8-18c 4-4-0, or even a proper 19th century c-16.

Rock On!
~Dusten


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: on30gn15 on October 12, 2016, 10:03:29 AM
I'm going to have to give up and ask what 8-18d is because Google is only giving results like
"EEG machine Model 8-18D"
"Mercedes-Benz Vario- 818D"
"CMSC 818D: Human Factors in Security and Privacy"
"818D Rental Agreement, Dwelling Unit Only, Month-to-Month Tenancy"
"Help on modbus error 818D"
"Alcatel One Touch 818d Android"
"Diagnosis Code T82.818D
Embolism due to vascular prosthetic devices, implants and grafts, subsequent encounter"


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: ebtnut on October 12, 2016, 01:36:28 PM
My vote would be for the 4-4-0 rather than the 2-6-0.  To the question about the numbers, they refer to Baldwin's shop code for locomotive designs back in the 1870's and '80's.  I don't recall all of it, but the letters refer to the number of drivers - C for four drivers, D for six drivers.  I believe the other numbers are related to the weight and other factors. 


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: hminky on October 13, 2016, 08:56:39 AM
A Mogul will go around radii that a 4-4-0 won't because the center drive can be blind.

A Mantua Ten-Wheeler will go around an 18 inch radius curve easily, convert it to a 4-4-0 and the locomotive needs a least 2 inches more of radius:

(http://www.55n3.org/image/4-4-0.jpg)

Harold


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: ksivils on October 13, 2016, 10:02:42 AM
In converting the 4-6-0 to a 4-4-0 in the photo you posted, did you make any changes to the frame, i.e. shortening the frame?

If you can't get someone to make what you want, make it yourself. I would be interested to know how you made the conversion.


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: hminky on October 13, 2016, 10:35:11 AM
There is no conversion just a flanged driver in the second driver slot.

The Mantua Ten-Wheeler doesn't scale well to O scale producing a much too small locomotive:

(http://www.chainsawjunction.com/image/on30_mantua.jpg)

Making it a 4-4-0 makes it a late 1880's S scale or early 55n3 locomotive.

There are no HO locomotives that transfer to O scale well.

Harold



Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Royce Wilson on October 15, 2016, 04:41:28 PM
We have been begging for that 4-4-0 since Bachman produced the first Mogul in On30 in 1998 and all we ever hear is it want clear the minimum radius yet there were large engines made that can't handle less than 22 radius.

This 4-4-0,2-6-0(Baldwin) was the backbone of American narrow gauge and would make a great addition to any latout.

Royce


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: ScottyB on October 15, 2016, 11:22:39 PM
Anything from the g scale line would be welcome in on30. They are stunning and I own a few Bachmann g scale locos despite not having anywhere to run them. Gorgeous.

I'll take whatever they offer but I'd still love to see a Mason Bogie.

Scott

P. S. Good to see Harold back!


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: finderskeepers on October 28, 2016, 09:15:54 PM
Ok, so why exactly does every engine have to be able to negotiate 18" radius curves? If you've built your layout to accommodate MMI engines and cars by San Juan, you can't possibly operate on 18", you've built your layout to 30" or better. Mine is actually 40", so this insistence on being able to negotiate impossibly tight curves is actually hampering the production of models that a lot is us want to see produced. Anyone for a 3 truck Shay? I'm in!


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Ken Clark on October 29, 2016, 11:07:33 AM


   A 60ton 3truck would suit me fine, as their were at least 6 built for 2&1/2 Ft gauge (aka On30), could use one for my Copper mine.

  Ken C
   GWN


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Anubis on October 29, 2016, 11:28:20 PM
Yes please!!

A 3-truck Shay sounds wonderful!!

(I have a couple of the old Roundhouse (?) units in HO scale, but a nice big, clanking one in On30 would suit me down to the ground. I'm not very taken with that spindly T-boiler thing that they produced some years back....)



John

 :)


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Dbarefoot on February 21, 2017, 04:34:34 PM
I really do hate to beat a dead horse, but I highly think that a proper narrow gauge locomotive from the 19th century would in the best interest in Bachmann. As I'm seeing, there hasn't been alot of interest in On30. If a 19th century locomotive such as the beautiful 8-18d 2-6-0, that has major possibility's for conversions to a 4-4-0, to logging locomotives and so much more. Bachmann in my humble opinion, "and I don't want to hear any complaints about my opinion" Bachmann has not been doing so well in the community. This is why I am putting this suggestion up. You've already got these engines in 1:24.3, so I don't understand why not in On30.

(http://images.collector-modeltrains.com/MT-0162011_219ce918-5139-11e1-bd41-e091f5975601_00.jpg)

Rock On!
~Dusten


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: ebtnut on February 21, 2017, 05:28:32 PM
Bachmann's On30 line has been straddling the boundary between "scale" and "toy" from the beginning.  I'm not casting aspersions here, it's marketing.  They already had a big investment in HO, including the EZTrack.  This worked fine for train sets aimed at the youngsters opening presents on Christmas and hopefully getting interested enough to go buy more train stuff.  Essentially all of the On30 equipment has been intended to operate on the 18" EZTrack curves, which limits the design of motive power to short wheelbase steamers, or diesels.  The 8-18d Mogul has a driver wheelbase that's just about as long as a 2-8-0.  My On3 NWSL brass version doesn't like curves less than about 36", and that's after I removed the flanges on the center driver.  I just don't see them going down this path. 


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Dbarefoot on February 21, 2017, 05:31:50 PM
Well the they had the C&S 2-6-0 to work fine on 18" curves. Even the Forney locomotive with it's tender is able to navigate the radius. They can do it. The G scale models also navigate very tight curves too.

Rock On!
~Dusten


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Royce Wilson on March 17, 2017, 04:01:52 PM
Dusted,

the problem Bachmann would have with the Baldwin 2-6-0 is they probably could not make enough.

Royce


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Dbarefoot on April 12, 2017, 12:03:21 AM
I mean they would sell greatly! C'mon Bachmann, Give us an engine that's good for kit bashing into what most narrow gauge railroads had. They had stuff from the 19th century and converted them as time went on. They recently restored the Glennbrook locomotive, which is a master piece. A lot of models can kit bash the engines into 2nd hand logging locos, or use them as 1st class locomotives in the 1800s.

The can go from this

(http://trn.trains.com/~/media/images/railroad-news/news-wire/2016-and-prior/2015/05/glenbrook.jpg?mw=900)

to this

(http://www.viewsofthepast.com/photos/transportation/railroad/rr-077.jpg)


Rock On!
~Dutsten


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Royce Wilson on July 22, 2017, 05:47:40 PM
Please,please,please,please,please,. Mr.Bachmann we need that Baldwin 2-6-0 or the 4-4-0.


Royce


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Dbarefoot on July 22, 2017, 08:03:56 PM
Please please please please purty please, with sugar and cherry on top.

This locomotive has so much potential to be one of your best all time sellers!!!


Rock On!
~Dusten


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Royce Wilson on July 23, 2017, 08:44:59 AM
It's so funny that a competitor made a C-16 that had molded on details and derailed traveling in reverse and the flanged domes were awful yet they keep being sought after and hard to get.

People never give up on attempting to converting HO running gears to a 4-4-0 so please Mr. Bachmann just give us what you make in Fn3 ,you already have the plans for a 3 truck shay and the Baldwin 2-6-0 and the C-19.

Royce


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: ScottyB on August 13, 2017, 10:09:27 AM
The shay was the "WOW!" locomotive that really sparked interest in On30. The Climax that followed had the same result.

The locomotives that followed are all gorgeous and run wonderfully, but lack that WOW! effect that the shay and climax had. I really think that if Bachmann came out with something being suggested in this thread, it might reignite interest in the scale. Even just re-running the shay for those late to the party that couldn't get one would be a great shot for On30.

As far as freight cars, all Bachmann cars are roughly based on the same tooling. I'd love to see them produce "shake the box" kits with the parts available. It's a kitbashers scale and I think that would be a big hit.

That said, I don't expect any new locos for On30 that aren't based on already existing tooling. I think 3D printing is the future.

Scott


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Trainman203 on September 02, 2017, 10:05:43 AM
Please excuse my lack of knowledge.

What does 8-18d mean?


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Hunt on September 02, 2017, 08:26:11 PM
Please excuse my lack of knowledge.

What does 8-18d mean?

Baldwin Locomotive Works
Class of Locomotive  Designation
   8  -- Number of wheels under locomotive
   16 --Diameter of cylinders
   D  -- Indicates 6 wheels are connected as driving wheels

Class 8-16 D is one class of Baldwin Locomotive Works Narrow Gauge Freight Locomotive designs

 


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Hunt on September 02, 2017, 09:14:50 PM
Correct typo from 8-16 D to 8-18 D in quote

Please excuse my lack of knowledge.

What does 8-18d mean?

Baldwin Locomotive Works
Class of Locomotive  Designation
   8  -- Number of wheels under locomotive
  18 -- Diameter of cylinders
   D  -- Indicates 6 wheels are connected as driving wheels

Class 8-18 D is one class of Baldwin Locomotive Works Narrow Gauge Freight Locomotive designs

 




Clarification: The number after the hyphen designates the cylinder diameter,  it is not the diameter.
examples:
  16 designates cylinders 11 inches in diameter
  18 designates cylinders 12 inches in diameter




Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Trainman203 on September 03, 2017, 11:05:01 AM
I've been reading about steam locomotives since the 1950s and have never heard that nomenclature before.  Did other builders use it too?  Or is it a catalog shorthand that went out of use with early woodburners?  

This nomenclature could not have been used on compound locomotives with high- and low-pressure cylinders, including the early compound Mallets.  It could not have been used with 3 cylinder locomotives. All of these were fashionable motive power concepts in the very early 20th century. If someone has examples of this system describing these locomotives I'd like to see it.


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: hminky on September 03, 2017, 12:16:22 PM
Those are standard Baldwin catalog designations:

(http://www.55n3.org/of_280/image/BLW-ng-280b-ch.jpg)

(http://narrowmind.railfan.net/BLW/BLW-ng-2662-ch.jpg)

Harold


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Trainman203 on September 03, 2017, 05:10:12 PM
Now THAT is cool 😎.  Thanks.  I've seen those catalogue pages plenty but never paid much attention to those codes.  Did other builders use those definitions in their catalogues too?

Still waiting an example of a compound or a three-cylinder engine.

I love the railroad period represented by these catalog pictures, 1900 up to ww1 maybe.  You almost never see it represented on layouts.  Not much available enginewise and rolling stock wise.  In those days you see engine crews wearing white jump suits sometimes.  I've sometimes wondered how you could actually make a layout in black and white , the whole thing, to look like the photographs of the time.


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: ebtnut on September 05, 2017, 11:22:54 AM
Compounding for steam locos means using the steam twice before exhausing it.  After being used one in a cylinder stroke the steam still have a lot of energy left, but at a lower effective pressure.  It can be routed to another cylinder that has a larger diameter than the initial (high pressure) cylinder to compensate for the lower pressure.  If you look at pics of early articulateds, the front cylinders are much larger than the rear for this reason.  Using the steam twice increases the efficiency of the loco, resulting in better water and fuel usage.  With standard non-articulateds, there were two common methods of compounding - Cross compounds, where the cylinder on one side is larger than the other side; a Vauclain compound (named for the president of Baldwin in the turn of the century period) where on first look the cylinders look like they have two valves, when in fact one of them is the high pressure cylinder.  The development of the superheater spelled the end for most compounds, since the efficiency was achieved without all the extra machinery. 

Three-cylinder locos were developed in the 1920's mostly to give some extra boost.  They were not compounds - all cylinders received high-pressure steam.  They weren't overly popular in the U.S., probably more so in Europe.  The Southern Pacific had a fleet of 4-10-2 three-cylilnder locos.  The U.P.'s fleet of 4-12-2's were originally three-cylinder machines.  The third cylinder and valve were buried in the middle of the cylinder saddle.  The give-away was the Gresley valve gear mounted on the pilot deck.  The Baldwin 60,000 4-10-2 on display at the Franklin Institute in Phildadelphia is a three-cylinder loco.


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Dbarefoot on September 06, 2017, 08:33:57 AM
Please folks. I made this thread for the 2-6-0. Let's try to keep on topic.

Rock On!
~Dusten


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Trainman203 on September 06, 2017, 11:24:19 AM
It's still about the 2-6-0 and the catalog designation used in the title.


Title: Re: How about adding a 2-6-0. an 8-18d 2-6-0
Post by: Dbarefoot on November 22, 2017, 03:37:49 AM
You can make a lot of money with this one.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6207/6030765469_8d329200d8_b.jpg)

Rock On!
~Dusten