Bachmann Message Board

Discussion Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: JRP on August 23, 2017, 01:10:07 AM



Title: motor install
Post by: JRP on August 23, 2017, 01:10:07 AM
How do I install a Soundtraxx decoder to a Bachmann motor (# F4OPH H16-44)?
What are the two black wires for (positive and negative)?  What are the 2 capacitors for? 
Are there written instructions for these motors? 


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: dutchbuilder on August 23, 2017, 04:40:58 AM
Did you had a look at the tsunami quick start PDF?

Ton

BTW, if the capacitors are between the motor connections they are there for RF suppression (sparks)
They should be removed because they can interfere with the DCC signals.




Title: Re: motor install
Post by: Yardmaster on August 23, 2017, 09:30:05 AM
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,27726.0.html


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: Hunt on August 23, 2017, 01:01:01 PM
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,27726.0.html
Is a link to another link for GP7.

The SoundTraxx Bachmann GP7 Tsunami Digital Sound Decoder Installation Notes have limited usefulness and can be misleading to someone with little or no DCC decoder installation experience.

A HO Bachmann FM H16-44 and older version F40PH have a split frame. Each half of the frame is part of the circuit from wheels to motor and the motor picks up power from the frames with wipers.  Adding sound decoder and speaker to a slit frame locomotive is different than the GP7 in the Note requiring instructions relevant to split frames.

Is the F40PH the old HO version or new.
  Old version   Click Here  (http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/H870X-IS005.pdf)
  New version  Click Here  (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9zCMOba0-QrYndDUHFGcHhLaWM/edit) 

Note the new version is not slit frame. 

 


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: dutchbuilder on August 23, 2017, 02:24:39 PM
Guys, i mentioned the quick start pdf so he can see which coloured wires from the decoder go where.
That was his question, how to connect a motor to a soundtraxx decoder.

Ton




Title: Re: motor install
Post by: JRP on August 23, 2017, 06:30:26 PM
Gentlemen,

Thanks for the this information.  Actually, I have installed a number of decoders on Athearn motors, but not on Bachmann. This darn forum space will not allow me to send you photos of the motors I purchased on line awhile back.  So, on the next message I'll just send photos without this message.

I just wanted to know now if the two black wires on these motors were for connecting to the gray and orange (negative and positive) wires on my Econami 100 decoder.  I got your message about the capacitors and will eliminate them from the motor. 

Look for the photos next.....


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: Hunt on August 23, 2017, 08:47:22 PM
Guys, i mentioned the quick start pdf so he can see which coloured wires from the decoder go where.
That was his question, how to connect a motor to a soundtraxx decoder.

Ton



Ton,
My reply is an aside not intended to answer JRP’s questions about Bachmann motor for F40PH or H16-44 as I  see nothing in the Parts Catalog for a F40PH or H16-44 motor with two black wires.



Title: Re: motor install
Post by: Hunt on August 23, 2017, 09:03:00 PM

Look for the photos next.....

The Additional Options... Attach:   feature cannot be used to post photo. 
 
To post a photo in this forum it has to reside (stored) in an URL registered site. Most people upload to a photo/image hosting site. Then place the photo using link to photo between SMF Bulletin Board Code Image Tags in the the Bachmann forum. Tags can be typed or entered by clicking on the (http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/Themes/bachmann/images/bbc/img.gif)




Title: Re: motor install
Post by: JRP on August 23, 2017, 10:27:46 PM
Thanks Hunt.  Let me work to set up the photos as suggested.

P.S.  The other part number I show is 870XX-6153 (displayed on EBay with sale of Bachmann motors).

JRP


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: Hunt on August 24, 2017, 12:14:24 AM
. . .
The other part number I show is 870XX-6153 (displayed on EBay with sale of Bachmann motors).

JRP

870XX-6153 in Bachmann Parts Catalog is Motor (Older Model) (HO F40PH)

(http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/images/ho_parts/870XX-6153.jpg)

You can see one of the two power pick up wipers, which when bent out touches a frame





Title: Re: motor install
Post by: Hunt on August 24, 2017, 12:45:48 AM
641XX-6172 in Bachmann Parts Catalog is Motor (HO H16-44)

(http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/images/ho_parts/641XX-6172.jpg)



Title: Re: motor install
Post by: JRP on August 24, 2017, 12:32:14 PM
Hunt,

I still need to send you pictures of the motor I bought, but I'm still a bit confused on how to send photos with this site.  I have the photos on a photo site, and you say "Then place the photo using link to photo between SMF Bulletin Board Code Image Tags in the Bachmann forum. Tags can be typed or entered by clicking on the image button.  When I click the image button above, it just enters [img]??   What is the tag??  I do not get this.

Help me out here if you would please so I can send you photos of the motor I bought. 

Thanks
JRP


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: Hunt on August 24, 2017, 01:00:33 PM
JRP,

Just copy and paste link to photo in your reply.

I will use it to show you how to display photo.


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: JRP on August 24, 2017, 02:24:46 PM
Hunt,

Does this work??   Are you able to open these?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/36382
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/35945
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/35945

JRP


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: Hunt on August 24, 2017, 02:33:13 PM
Hunt,

Does this work??   Are you able to open these?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/36382
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/35945
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/35945

JRP
No - not a valid link.

 Click Here  (http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,33824.msg249944.html#msg249944) maybe jonathan's info will help.




Title: Re: motor install
Post by: JRP on August 24, 2017, 04:58:58 PM
I think I have it (finally).

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4373/36382724660_411f16aeee_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xr1Yud)20170824_093357_resized (https://flic.kr/p/Xr1Yud) by John Parrish (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/), on Flickr




Title: Re: motor install
Post by: JRP on August 24, 2017, 05:01:07 PM
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4381/35945188544_b7f4caa417_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WLmuf5)20170824_093332_resized (https://flic.kr/p/WLmuf5) by John Parrish (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/), on Flickr


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: JRP on August 24, 2017, 05:11:37 PM
Hunt,

Pictures below.

So, still need to know about the two black wires soldered to the motor. Also, just to confirm, the 2 capacitors are to be cut off, yes?   
Is this the older or newer version? 

Thanks in advance....JRP

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4369/35945196054_862d9f6e5f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WLmwty)20170824_093343_resized (https://flic.kr/p/WLmwty) by John Parrish (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/), on Flickr


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: dutchbuilder on August 24, 2017, 05:36:57 PM
It's so obvious in these pictures.
remove the black wires and solder grey and orange there.
where which colour goes is not clear but will become apparent when you run the motor.
When it goes the wrong way you have the wires crossed.
I understand why the c's are soldered to the body.
But that is no concern to you.
Just remove them.

Ton


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: Hunt on August 24, 2017, 06:39:29 PM
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4369/35945196054_862d9f6e5f_n.jpg)


John,
The yellow "thing" is a capacitor, which as used is part of the RF suppression. Remove both  -  not needed if locomotive is run in USA.

Black wires – Solder one to decoder Gray: Motor (-) the other to Orange: Motor (+) or desolder the black wires and solder decoder motor wires in their place.  Test locomotive for direction of travel before soldering.




Speculation - Looks like a motor that has been cannibalized. The motor is in a motor mount, which looks like a mount used in HO F7-A/B, FT-A/B, F9



Title: Re: motor install
Post by: Hunt on August 24, 2017, 08:02:14 PM
An Aside

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/375/32684080635_5786bb4f64.jpg)



JRP... Outstanding photo!



Title: Re: motor install
Post by: Hunt on August 24, 2017, 10:31:11 PM
. . . .

Speculation - Looks like a motor that has been cannibalized. The motor is in a motor mount, which looks like a mount used in HO F7-A/B, FT-A/B, F9



more...
It could be motor for the "new version" of the HO F40PH except the motor mount does not match L1147-00U01 shown in parts diagram and listed in parts catalog.

(http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/images/ho_parts/L1147-OOUO1.jpg)



Title: Re: motor install
Post by: JRP on September 07, 2017, 01:14:13 AM
OK, I should have photos now below of the motor in question. 

I have done the following:
   .   Wired the orange and gray wires of a decoder to the two copper "tabs" where the black wires use to be on
       the motor. 
   .   Removed the two capacitors that were soldered to the motor.
   .   Soldered red wires to right wheel pickup and black wire to frame for left wheel pickup.

When I place the wheels and frame on the test track, nothing happens.  No LED light in the decoder which means no power is being recognized.  No pickup.  I am using my DCS-50 throttle and using JMRI.
However, when I have run this motor in DC by just connecting each black wire to a terminal, the motor runs very well.  What am I missing here?  How is this motor different than Athearn motors when connecting to a decoder?? 

Thanks

JRP     

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4373/36382724660_411f16aeee_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xr1Yud)20170824_093357_resized (https://flic.kr/p/Xr1Yud) by John Parrish (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4369/35945196054_862d9f6e5f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WLmwty)20170824_093343_resized (https://flic.kr/p/WLmwty) by John Parrish (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4381/35945188544_b7f4caa417_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WLmuf5)20170824_093332_resized (https://flic.kr/p/WLmuf5) by John Parrish (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/), on Flickr


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: Vivictionora on September 07, 2017, 02:02:24 AM
As an aside note, you can upload the photos on imgur and it'll always show without a broken link. Flickr can be bad sometimes.


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: JRP on September 09, 2017, 05:14:42 PM
Hey guys,

I still need help from one of you "motor" experts.  The motor in questions is shown below again and are also in previous messages. See my notes below:

 I have done the following:
   .   Wired the orange and gray wires of a Soundtrax decoder to the two copper "tabs" where the black wires
       used to be on the motor. 
   .   Removed the two capacitors that were soldered to the motor.
   .   Soldered red wires to right wheel pickups and a black wire to loco frame for left wheel pickup.
   .   Made sure the motor and decoder were "isolated" from the frame.

When I place the wheels, frame and motor on the test track, nothing happens.  No LED light in the decoder which means no power is being recognized.  No pickup.  I am using my DCS-50 throttle and JMRI.
However, when I have run this same motor in DC by just connecting each black wire to a terminal, the motor runs very well.  What am I missing here?  How is this motor different than Athearn motors when connecting to a decoder?? 

I have 4 of these new motors and would like to use them on Athearn F and GP units.
 
Thanks

JRP

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4369/35945196054_862d9f6e5f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WLmwty)20170824_093343_resized (https://flic.kr/p/WLmwty) by John Parrish (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4381/35945188544_b7f4caa417_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WLmuf5)20170824_093332_resized (https://flic.kr/p/WLmuf5) by John Parrish (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jrpfilestoshare1/), on Flickr
     


Title: Re: motor install
Post by: Hunt on September 09, 2017, 06:56:15 PM
Use a multimeter in Continuity Test Mode to find the open (openings) in the electrical paths from tread of power pick up wheels to decoder.



Check online decoder installations in the Athearn models you have and use to compare all your wiring.  Perhaps one of the decoder installs in  Train Control Systems  (http://www.tcsdcc.com/) will help.