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Discussion Boards => Thomas & Friends => Topic started by: sodorisland121 on October 21, 2017, 09:51:47 AM



Title: Large scale Gordon
Post by: sodorisland121 on October 21, 2017, 09:51:47 AM
I do not collect large scale, but last time we had a large scale model Thomas engine that was a tender engine, we had Emily. So, will Bachmann make large scale Gordon? I believe he will be IMMENSE!


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: TrainFan97 on October 21, 2017, 12:02:11 PM
Not happening.


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: Chaz on October 21, 2017, 02:55:52 PM
James and Emily will probably be the only tender engines in the large scale range at this point.  Even then some would argue that despite her sales being well, Emily was a bit of a stretch for that range.


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: sodorisland121 on October 21, 2017, 08:11:26 PM
It can be possible, we might get Edward first. and in my opinion, about 5 years later: LARGE SCALE DAISY


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: JLK2707 on October 22, 2017, 03:19:11 AM
I strongly doubt we will get a large scale bachmann edward due to the fact that he is no longer in the steam team.


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: sodorisland121 on October 22, 2017, 09:48:40 AM
I thought that Edward stays at wellsworth now, Bachmann is making DIESEL for the large scale range. and HE is not on the steam team


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: Plow Bender on October 22, 2017, 12:22:21 PM
Considering the number of times we've gone over this, I'm just going to copy and paste this time...

I've lost count the number of times we've gone over this, but Gordon and/or Henry having a chance in large scale is about as likely as Bachmann bringing back their K-27 in the Spectrum line.  What people are not getting is that the models are JUST TOO BIG!

Take Emily for example.  She is the largest engine in the Thomas range and is around 27" long with a wheel base length being roughly 14 1/2".  Bachmann's 10-wheeler locomotive is about 30" long and has a wheelbase length of about 12 1/2".  Bachmann's C-19 is 32" long, and has a wheel base length of 13 1/2".  Keep in mind that all wheelbase measurements are locomotives only and don't include the tender.  To paint the bigger picture here, Emily herself has a longer wheelbase than that of Bachmann's 4-6-0 10-wheeler or the 2-8-0 C-19.

Gordon and Henry are larger than Emily, and would be larger than her model if made in large scale.  What Iím sure many donít know, is that Bachmann's Thomas models are 1:22.5 scale, while other models in Bachmann's large scale range are about 1:20.3 scale.  Just because Bachmann made a 4-6-0 with their 10-wheeler means nothing, because Gordon and Henry would be bigger than that model anyways.  If Emily herself already has a larger wheelbase length than Bachmann's C-19, Gordon and Henry would be no different.  Larger wheelbases limit how tight of curves the models can negotiate.  Bachmann altered Emily's chassis with both front and rear axles on pony trucks, and also accommodated the tender coupling to pivot right behind the driving wheel and added 2 holes in the coupler to allow the tender to be spaced further back from the locomotive.

Unless you're someone with an actual garden railroad, most people who have the large scale Thomas models probably have the Bachmann steel alloy track and run their models indoors.  Bachmann's steel alloy track only offers 4' diameter curves.  Gordon and Henry would have a longer wheelbase than that of Emily's, and with little to no room to modify the chassis.  Itís not as simple as just removing the flanges from the middle driving wheels.  Bachmann would not bother with modifying the chassis to work on 4' diameter curves, and most likely the models would instead require larger radius curves which are only available in brass track which cost more than steel alloy.  No one is going to go out and buy new track and/or start a new track system just to run 1 or 2 models.

Then you have price for the models, both production and retail costs.  Gordon and Henry would be too much for a lot of modelers out there and sales would be poor.  Emily herself is already $429 and considering that Bachmann's 4-6-0 models hover around the $475 range, Gordon and Henry could be anywhere from $550-$600 if not more.  Not everyone has that kind of money and it limits the number of sales.  Keep in mind that over the years, prices on Bachmann models have gone up and will continue to do so.  Iím sorry, but there just arenít enough positives with the models.

Edward being a tender engine gives him a slim to none chance of happening regardless how you look at it.  I had hopes of Edward for 2017 (just as I did for 2016), but after 2 years and the announcements weíve had lately, Iíve lost hope for Edward in large scale.  I could honestly see characters like Rosie, Mavis, or even Arry and Bert having more of a chance than any models larger than that.  These days, size and/or reuse of tooling plays a big factor in a model being made and I know for a fact that's why weíve gotten a lot of what we already have in the range. 

What everyone fails to understand is that the large scale market is dying, not just for Bachmannís Thomas range, but for their Big Haulers and Spectrum line as well.  Hell, the large scale market in general is bad even for Bachmannís competitors.  Many other manufactures that sell large scale have released very little the last few years, or even released nothing at all.  Some have even gone under and arenít around anymore.  I highly suggest that if you want to argue that claim, I recommend taking a look at a recent topic in the large scale forum and see what Iím talking about.  Like it or not, large scale only has a few years left.  You know it, I know itÖ

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,33756.0.html

-Rusty


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: TrainFan97 on October 22, 2017, 04:38:43 PM
Couldn't have put it better myself. Just like the "Redesigned James" this topic is also getting out of hand.

So many people fail to understand that Large Scale is dying. Very few people can afford it. It's been discussed countless times that you're more likely to go out in a thunderstorm and dodge rain than to have Gordon and Henry in Large Scale. They are simply TOO BIG, and will NEVER be made in that scale.

Just the fact that Diesel is the first actual engine to be made in that range since Toby is a huge surprise.


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: sodorisland121 on October 22, 2017, 04:45:39 PM
We'll see if he's happening or not in a few years. I just ask a simple question, and you start a rage? How would you like it if I say "Large scale rocky coming soon!" and you will say "Impossible". As I say, nothing is impossible


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: TrainFan97 on October 22, 2017, 06:23:13 PM
If nothing is impossible, then I guess Sam for Large Scale is inevitable! He has a very good chance, since nothing is impossible!

Don't be silly, I'm joking.


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: Plow Bender on October 24, 2017, 11:05:06 AM
If nothing is impossible, then I guess Sam for Large Scale is inevitable! He has a very good chance, since nothing is impossible!

Don't be silly, I'm joking.

At this point, Large Scale would be lucky enough just to get another engine besides Arry and Bert, which are almost inevitable at this point considering their tooling is already there.  If anything, many agree we will get something like Philip or Samson because they are smaller models and are less costly to make, hence why we got Winston.  With the direction the range has gone the last few years, there's no way Bachmann would make any engine larger than James, and even then that's a stretch for them.  From what I heard before the 2017 announcements were made, Bachmann wanted to do a tank engine, but instead we got Diesel.  That still makes sense though considering Diesel is about the size of engines such as Thomas and/or Toby.

When it comes to tender engines in large scale, I personally I feel like Bachmann regrets making Emily, simply because of her size.  She is after all the largest model in the range and has the highest RRP, which is understandable.  However, you could just about buy a Bachmann 4-6-0 Anniversary Edition for the same price, and on top of that you're getting lights, sound, smoke, and overall more detail with that model verses Emily.  Don't get me wrong, I really like Emily's model and I think she is the best one Bachmann introduced into large scale, but I have to agree that she was a stretch for the range.

-Rusty


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: TrainFan97 on October 24, 2017, 01:49:07 PM
At least you knew I was joking about Sam.

Emily is the largest model in the range, and she was a stretch. Sam isn't even a TV series character. He was made strictly for Wooden Railway. Bachmann CAN'T POSSIBLY make characters bigger than Emily for that range.


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: sodorisland121 on October 24, 2017, 09:24:02 PM
OK, will arry and bert get made for the range? we have Diesel.


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: TrainandRockmusicfan97 on October 24, 2017, 09:53:35 PM
Bill and Ben have a much bigger chance of being made in G-Scale than Gordon does.


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: sodorisland121 on October 24, 2017, 09:56:12 PM
I love the bill and ben idea. they have a nice yellow color


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: TrainandRockmusicfan97 on October 25, 2017, 09:49:51 AM
Plus, they're tank engines and are a pretty reasonable size for the G-Scale range.


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: Plow Bender on October 25, 2017, 01:44:38 PM
Plus, they're tank engines and are a pretty reasonable size for the G-Scale range.

Not to mention Bill and Ben would require a single tooling which would help Bachmann in terms of production costs.  The faces would be the only thing possibly requiring a separate tooling, but I personally see Bachmann just changing the eyebrows like they did for the HO Donald and Douglas models, or just making the faces the same like Arry and Bert.  I'd say the faces on Bill and Ben would probably be the same considering there's not much difference between the 2 of them.  I don't really see them getting different expressions like their HO counterparts.

Like I've said before though, considering Diesel was announced in large scale and the tooling is there, it's pretty clear the next set of twins the range will get is Arry and Bert.  However, I think many would agree Bill and Ben would do way better than Arry and Bert would in large scale, or any range for that matter.  They've had more appearances lately, their sales would be better, and there's been more of a demand for them in the last couple years.  I myself would be tempted to get the tank engine twins if they were ever announced.

-Rusty


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: TrainFan97 on October 26, 2017, 05:51:49 PM
Mavis, or Bill and Ben would make much better sellers than 'Arry and Bert, even though they do require new toolings.

Mavis can just use Toby's chassis. For Bill and Ben, Bachmann can easily get two engines out there with just one tooling, and both engines having the exact same livery, with the only differences being their nameplates. They don't really need to make different faces for the twins.

But, like you said, 'Arry and Bert seem inevitable, because of their tooling already existing.


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: douglas on October 26, 2017, 09:57:36 PM
Do Arry and Bert still even have roles in the TV series significant enough to warrant electric models in any scale? I haven't seen any episodes since around season 12.


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: Falcon on October 26, 2017, 10:54:27 PM
Do Arry and Bert still even have roles in the TV series significant enough to warrant electric models in any scale? I haven't seen any episodes since around season 12.

As far as I know of, they've only had two speaking roles in the past five seasons (counting the current Season 21). "Diesel and the Ducklings" and "Springtime for Diesel" have been their most recent speaking appearances so far.


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: Plow Bender on October 27, 2017, 11:52:21 AM
Do Arry and Bert still even have roles in the TV series significant enough to warrant electric models in any scale? I haven't seen any episodes since around season 12.

No, but that doesn't matter when the tooling for them is already there courtesy of Devious Diesel.  That's basically the only reason Bachmann made Arry and Bert in HO, and also why they were made for the O gauge line by one of Bachmann's competitors.  Either way, manufactures still get a small profit off Arry and Bert just because of the reuse of tooling.  Personally if Bachmann wants to reuse a tooling and have a model that sells, just forget about Arry and Bert and make Paxton instead.  Would make sense considering his HO model was announced this year.

-Rusty


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: TrainFan97 on October 27, 2017, 01:40:55 PM
Personally if Bachmann wants to reuse a tooling and have a model that sells, just forget about Arry and Bert and make Paxton instead.  Would make sense considering his HO model was announced this year.

-Rusty

I quite agree. If Bachmann wants to reuse a tooling for Large Scale, Paxton would be a much better decision than 'Arry and Bert. His HO model isn't out yet, but he will definitely sell better, especially since he's much more likeable as a character. Since 'Arry and Bert's HO models didn't sell well, producing them in Large Scale would just be suicide for the range. Paxton is the much safer decision.

If Bachmann wants to reuse a tooling for HO Scale, Sidney is the only good option left. He would also make a much better seller than 'Arry and Bert.

As for Splatter and Dodge (for either scale), their chances are very very slim. Even though their tooling already exists, they were one-off characters, plus they were complete idiots. Anything related to Magic Railroad is considered taboo. The only chance Splatter and Dodge have of being made in HO would be if the Directors Cut ever gets made. Even then, it's hard to imagine them being good sellers. Even though Bachmann has the tooling, they may never make Diesel 10's bumbling minions. Can't count on it. No chance in heck for Large Scale for sure. Kids of this generation wouldn't even know who they are. Unlike those bumbling idiots (Splodge), Sidney actually has relevance, and he's a CGI character. He's also likeable.

A Mainland Diesel (like Ulli) has the same extremely low chance as Splodge. Even though they're in the CGI series, they have no promotion or marketing towards them. No merchandise whatsoever.

What to actually expect for Large Scale (for existing toolings) include Paxton (recommended), or 'Arry and Bert. Sidney for HO Scale. That is it.


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: TrainandRockmusicfan97 on October 29, 2017, 10:20:33 AM
Kids of this generation don't even know who BoCo is either......  :'(


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: Falcon on October 29, 2017, 12:59:06 PM
Kids of this generation don't even know who BoCo is either......  :'(

And it's sadly the same case with Duke. I would be up for a model of him, but I doubt it can happen at any point in time.  :-\


Title: Re: Large scale Gordon
Post by: TrainandRockmusicfan97 on October 29, 2017, 01:07:32 PM
You're right. Bachmann probably won't release Duke unless if they bring him back in a future season (along with BoCo).