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Discussion Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: OLAVTom on November 10, 2017, 08:56:26 PM



Title: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: OLAVTom on November 10, 2017, 08:56:26 PM
I just purchased the above Bachman Track Pack but can't seem to set up the piers where they are supposed to go according to the photo on the box.  The photo on the box shows a straight piece of track supported on piers on either side of the lower track.  However, when I set it up the straight track connection on the upper piece is directly over the lower track and I can't put a pier directly under the connection.  I have to slide it back on either side resulting in a situation of an unsupported connection that dips down when a train runs over it.  Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong setting this up?  It came with 19 pieces of 18" radius curved track and 1 piece of 18" radius curved section that has a terminal and rerailer on it.  It also came with 4 9" straight pieces of track which I assume forms the "x" where the two circles come together with the over-under.   


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: jward on November 11, 2017, 04:34:45 PM
you have a couple of options here. The setup you describe is going to have the track joint right over top of the other track. You are doing nothing wrong.

Your first option is to find some way to support that track joint. You can try using a thin piece of wood or metal under the track for support. I'd try 1/8 inch plain moulding strips, available at lowes or home depot. You should be able to glue or otherwise fasten these to the bottom of your track if they're wide enough. But if the support structure is too thick it will interfere with the clearance over the track below, and some of your cars might not fit.

Another option would be to buy a bridge to slip under the upper track between the bridge piers.

The third and fourth options involve tweaking your track plan.

option three is to replace one of the 9" straights with two 4 1/2" ones, placed either side of the remaining 9" straight on the upper track. By splitting the difference, you can ensure that your track joints will be well away from the lower track.

Option 4 is to replace two straights with two 18" curves. Instead of having 1en curves on each side, with paired straights in the middle, you'll have eleven 18" curves on each side, with a single straight on each level connecting the curves.


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: OLAVTom on November 11, 2017, 06:58:24 PM
Thanks, Jeffery.  If I add two 18"radius curve sections in place of two straight sections won't that through off the figure 8 setup and force the track not to setup properly?  I like the bridge option better and I believe that Bachman has such a bridge that works with the E-Z track.  Tom


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: jward on November 11, 2017, 07:05:40 PM
believe it or not, replacing the 2 straights with curves does not change the figure 8 pattern much. The only difference is that the upper track crosses the lower at a different angle.


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: OLAVTom on November 11, 2017, 07:22:36 PM
Thanks again, Jeffery.  I checked on the bridge but it simply replaces a straight section so unless I replace two straights with two curves like you suggest the bridge merely adds another interesting element with the flashing light.  As I'm using this in an Operation Lifesaver display I just might add the bridge and the replacement of two sections of straight for curved.  Tom


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: jward on November 11, 2017, 08:23:18 PM
either that or you could place a 4 1/2 straight on either side of the bridge, which would move the bridge piers to where they can be of most use.


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Terry Toenges on November 12, 2017, 01:06:04 AM
What's interesting is that the picture that Bachmann shows for the Steel Alloy E-Z TRACK® Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack (HO Scale). This is off of Bachmann's product page.
The picture shows that it has 6 straights but the list of track only indicates 4 straights are included.
Set includes:
    19 pieces 18″ radius curved track
    1 piece 18″ radius curved terminal rerailer
    4 pieces of 9" straight track
    14-piece graduated pier set (3 1/8" vertical clearance under the tallest pier)
    power wire
(http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/images/HO_Scale/44475.jpg)


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: jward on November 12, 2017, 04:56:48 AM
No, I don't think there are six straights in the photo. The piers are not under the track joints, just like the OP had stated. If you notice, the seven piers on each side of the figure 8 are spread out over just five track sections, four curves and one straight. Therefore they cannot be under the joints.

What concerns me about the photo, though, is the steepness of the grade. 3.125" rise over 45" run (5 track sections of 9" apiece) is about a 6.8% grade, almost twice the recommended maximum. Spreading the piers to one per section will lower the grade to 4.9%, much better, but still steeper than the 4% recommended maximum. But at least 4.9% is workable, though it would cut your locomotive's pulling power down to about 10% of what it will pull on level track.


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Terry Toenges on November 12, 2017, 01:39:10 PM
Please help. Now, I am confused.
I just did these in Anyrail. One is 20 -18" curves and 4 - 9" straights. The other is 20 -18" curves and 6 - 9" straights.
What am I doing wrong? It's not matching up.
20 18's and 4 9's
(http://www.sarget.com/sitebuilder/images/overunder-20c-4s-600x327.jpg)
20 18's and 6 9's
(http://www.sarget.com/sitebuilder/images/overunder-20c-6s-600x297.jpg)


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: jward on November 12, 2017, 01:59:52 PM
ANyrail is a cad program. It is unfailingly exact, and does not account for the wiggle room between track sections we encounter in the real world. The problem you've encountered is something I've often seen when trying to duplicate published plans with anyrail.

I have no doubt that if you used the ten curves and 4 straights you'd be able to get them to connect.

It is worth noting that the 30degree 18r curves and the 9" straights are standard pieces among several manufacturers. So you can build the same plan in several different cad programs (scarm, anyrail, etc) using several different libraries (EZ track, atlas, power lock) with similar results.


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Terry Toenges on November 12, 2017, 02:05:17 PM
I know Bachmann has been selling these packs for years and people have been using them so they must fit together. The picture does show 6 straights, though, with the piers under the joints. On the bottom, you can clearly see the rail joiners on the three straights.
(http://www.sarget.com/sitebuilder/images/overunder-600x347.jpg)


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Terry Toenges on November 12, 2017, 02:12:48 PM
In the picture of the full layout, you can count the 10 curved pieces on the right side of it. It has me befuddled now.
With 6 straights, it should look like the bottom Anyrail diagram I did and there would be a lot of fudging to get that to line up. I don't know how they did it.
I even tried adding combinations of 4.5", 3", 2.25", and 2" pieces and I couldn't get it to line up perfect in Anyrail.


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: jward on November 12, 2017, 03:54:25 PM
it's a mystery to me as well. According to anyrail it shouldn't work, even accounting for the wiggle room. That is a huge discrepancy.


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Hunt on November 12, 2017, 05:16:47 PM
Somewhat of an aside --

Terry Toenges,

When using Bachmann E-Z Track, the geometry of the track used to build a track plan does not need to be exact to have a useable track plan.

Example - The pieces needed in http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,34084.msg251455.html#msg251455 track plan for exact fit to me are a waste of money.   



Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Len on November 12, 2017, 05:44:42 PM
In theory it takes 18 cuvers, 9 on each side, and 8 straights to do the up and over. If you don't want a joint directly over the lower track, replace one 9" straight with 2 4.5" straights on the upper level:

(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4540/37656551624_e3ae6c4bd4_b.jpg)

Len


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Terry Toenges on November 12, 2017, 07:18:33 PM
Hunt - I know he could have made it work on the other one without exact pieces. I didn't want to start a newbie off on the wrong foot by telling him to cheat a little. I didn't think he had easy access to hobby shops so that he  could run down and get more pieces or different pieces if he needed. Once he gets some running time, he'll want to change it around and then he can start experimenting.


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Terry Toenges on November 12, 2017, 07:24:03 PM
Len - How do you explain the picture that shows 10 curves on each end and 6 straights? Why do they include 20 curves if it only takes 18?
I must be doing something wrong in figuring this.
I was hoping maybe Bachmann folks would enlighten us.


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Len on November 12, 2017, 07:40:00 PM
Terry,

I have no idea what they're doing in the picture. I generated the layout using RR-Track software, and it came out the same way as the many fig-8 layouts I've built. Using 30deg sectional 18" radius curves, it takes 9 curves on each side of the 8 if you're want the tracks to cross at 90deg. It doesn't matter if you're doing an 'Up & Over', or using a 90deg crossing, it takes 18 curves total. It doesn't matter what brand of track is used, as long as the curves are 30deg sections of 18" radius.

Len
 


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Terry Toenges on November 13, 2017, 01:52:36 PM
I just did it in Anyrail and 18 curves and 8 straights comes out right like you showed for a 90 degree crossover. The Bachmann pic isn't showing 90 degree though so I'm still perplexed about that.
I'm going to be getting my track out to start setting up for Christmas in a couple of weeks so maybe I'll try to physically lay it out. I don't know if I have 20 18" radius pieces. I gave a bunch of that away. I have mostly 15" now for Christmas stuff.
I've had my permanent layout on hold while I work on Dinosaurland and haven't started on it yet but I've got pretty much all the stuff I need now with motive power and track power and pieces.


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Len on November 13, 2017, 02:54:22 PM
Dug out some old diagrams I did for friends and discovered it does take 20 curves, using 30deg 18" radius, if the crossing is either 30 or 60 degrees. It also takes a bunch of fitter pieces, and even then there's going to be some "adjusting" required.

Using a 30deg crossing (Note this also uses 4 18" half sections):
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4521/38340337946_9664a1642d_b.jpg)

Using a 60deg crossing:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4579/37681351204_4e2bf5243d_b.jpg)

Len


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Terry Toenges on November 13, 2017, 06:16:34 PM
Interesting that you had to add fitters and smaller pieces. The pic Bachmann uses looks like it crosses at 60 degrees.
Do you know how long the crossing is? I don't have any dimensions on Bachmann crossings.
On the 60, with the fitters, you added 10 1/2" more in straight track - 512 (3") + 513 (2 1/4") X 2.
On the ends it look like 592-1 (3/4") +592-2 (1") for 1 3/4".
On the 30 curves it's the equivalent of 11 curved pieces on each end plus the small fitter. (I found an old post from Joe Satnik. He says the 30 crossing is 11 15/16" long)
According to the information in Bachmann's catalog, you just need the 22 pieces of curve and the crossing. Is Bachmann fudging it?
Just think - Some people sit around and ponder the mysteries of the universe. I can sit around around and ponder the mysteries of EZ Track.


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Len on November 13, 2017, 07:04:58 PM
As near as I can make out using the RR-Track measuring tool:

Tthe straight sections of the 30deg crossing are 11.25" long, measuring along the center line from one end to the other. The 60deg crossing appears to be an even 11" long.

Without the fitter pieces, there definately has to be some "finagling" going on.

Len


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Terry Toenges on November 13, 2017, 08:56:51 PM
Hmmm... Joe Satnik said 11 15/16". Your measurement has 11 1/4". I counted the ties on the 30 - 41 ties. A 9" straight has 33 ties. 3" has 10 ties. 2 1/4" has 9 ties. 2" has 8 ties. i was trying to figure it out that way.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found this from Jeff (Jward)back in 2011 regarding Figure 8's.
 "Re: figure 8
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2011, 05:42:51 PM »    Reply with quote
using a 30 degree crossing gives the most compact figure 8 you can build with available components. if you don't have room for that one, you won't be able to build any of the others....
dimensions taken from the book "atlas HO layouts for every space".......since the standard atlas and ez track straights and 18" radius curves have the same geometry, these dimensions should apply to ez track as well.....
30 degree crossing......42" x 78"....22 curves, 1 30 degree crossing
60 degree crossing......42" x 84"....20 curves, 4 9" straights, 1 60 degree crossing
90 degree crossing......42" x 90"....18 curves, 4 9" straights, 4 6" straights, 1 90 degree crossing
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 09:06:43 AM by jward »    


Title: Re: E-Z Track Over-Under Figure 8 Track Pack - HO Scale
Post by: Len on November 14, 2017, 01:37:24 AM
22 curves for the 30deg crossing makes sense when you factor in the 1/2 curve sections of the EZ-Track version. The difference in the 'fitter' pieces would be due to the difference in the overall size of the EZ-Track crossing vs the smaller Snap-Track version.

Len