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Discussion Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: Simon Greasly on December 22, 2007, 04:33:53 PM



Title: Krauss-Maffei 4003
Post by: Simon Greasly on December 22, 2007, 04:33:53 PM
Does anyone know if there is a  Krauss-Maffei 4003 in rio grande colors i don't care what scale it is just let me know thx.


Title: Re: Krauss-Maffei 4003
Post by: r.cprmier on December 22, 2007, 06:48:49 PM
D&RGW is to the best of my knowledge, the only road to have bought that unit.  A long time ago, AHM (Rivarossi at the time) had imported it from Italy, and it was a pretty good model-a sight better than the prototype behaved; which is why Rio Grande deep-sixed them pronto.  They did poorly, especially in the tunnels.  A brass model MAY have at one time, been available-but don't bet your clothes on it.

Rich


Title: Re: Krauss-Maffei 4003
Post by: Woody Elmore on December 22, 2007, 07:13:27 PM
D&RGW and SP had these engines. Above post is correct. They were available from AHM. I don't recall a brass model.


Title: Re: Krauss-Maffei 4003
Post by: RAM on December 22, 2007, 08:05:46 PM
You might try ebay.


Title: Re: Krauss-Maffei 4003
Post by: glennk28 on December 22, 2007, 08:27:33 PM
AHM/Rivarossi made them in HO--the units were detailed as Rio Grande units.  All six wound up on the SP, along with a batch of road-switcher configured units, and three built by ALCo. At least one, SP 9022, remained in RG paint with just the road name changed.  I photographed several including the 9022 at San Jose engine terminal in 1964,  The last of the units to survive was one that became the "camera car" for the simulators.

They originally had pneumatic MU controls, which were eventually changed to the same type everything else had.  It was strange to see an KM trailing an F7 or a Geep.  gj


Title: Re: Krauss-Maffei 4003
Post by: r.cprmier on December 23, 2007, 10:21:13 AM
Glenn;
Wasn't there something in the drive system that was hydraulic?  I had thought so.  They were (quite obviously from the name) a German product, and the quality and workmanship was excellent; however, the final applications proved less than desireable, and I had thought that the "hydraulic" system was the culprit.  I know little about these engines, other than they were a handsome beastie; two on stud of a freight would be an impressive sight.

Rich


Title: Re: Krauss-Maffei 4003
Post by: Yukonsam on December 23, 2007, 11:21:21 AM
Hi

The Krauss-Maffei locomotives were diesel-hydraulic as mentioned.
They were built by K-M in Munich, Germany and tested on the Semmering Line in Austria before shipment to the US.
3 locomotives for D&RGW and 3 for SP. SP bought 15 more units from K-M as roadswitchers, not as covered wagons, and Alco built 3.
Thats is where the nickname Alco-haulic derives. The K-M locomotives were powerful engines with two Maybach engines developing 4000 hp together, but the weak point was the hydraulic driven parts in the trucks.

Overland Models made the K-M´s in brass 20-25 years ago, both in D&RGW (catalog # 1909), SP (catalog # 1910) as covered wagons, and catalog # 1811 as SP roadswitchers.

Regards, Yukonsam


Title: Re: Krauss-Maffei 4003
Post by: glennk28 on December 25, 2007, 06:21:28 PM
in simple terms they had automatic transmissions.  The concept was good, for European locos, but a long haul in Europe is just a local trip in the US-- and the KM's just couldn't stand up to the beating they were asked to take here.  You might say that the SP was in the habit of tacking a caboose onto one end of the yard and enough locos to move whatever was in the yard, and go.  Clean out the yard with one train. 

The "covered wagon" units, as I recall, had a truck mount that had no center plate or kingpins, which apparently was not popular with the crews.  The unuaual cross-section, with the upper body slanted in, was due to the clearances in Germany--they had to get thru the local tunnels for break-in and ultimately down to the ports for shipment.


Title: Re: Krauss-Maffei 4003
Post by: Dr EMD on December 25, 2007, 08:13:31 PM
Here's the hood version;

(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff156/plastikman_photos/efvm_krauss.jpg)

The SP were not the only operator of these DH.

Dr EMD ;D


Title: Re: Krauss-Maffei 4003
Post by: r.cprmier on December 25, 2007, 09:47:36 PM
The "covered wagon" units, as I recall, had a truck mount that had no center plate or kingpins, which apparently was not popular with the crews.  The unuaual cross-section, with the upper body slanted in, was due to the clearances in Germany--they had to get thru the local tunnels for break-in and ultimately down to the ports for shipment.

This was the issue with tunnels-I had it wrong.  Memory's going to h*** in a handbasket-fast!  I had thought the issue was with them having problems in the US tunnels.

Rich


Title: Re: Krauss-Maffei 4003
Post by: Charlie Mutschler on December 28, 2007, 07:13:19 PM
If the D&RGW had problems with the KM's in tunnels, it may have been the location of the air intakes.  The relatively high up location on the car body was a problem for more than the KM's though - the reason for the "Tunnel Motor" SD's so popular with the D&RGW and SP, units with more air intake space lower down on the carbody. 
Charlie Mutschler
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