Bachmann Online Forum

Discussion Boards => On30 => Topic started by: Dusten Barefoot on May 21, 2008, 09:03:04 PM

Title: Aint it about time
Post by: Dusten Barefoot on May 21, 2008, 09:03:04 PM
Aint it about time we got a ET&WNC 4-6-0 ;)
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Hamish K on May 21, 2008, 10:29:49 PM
No.
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Congre on May 21, 2008, 10:50:39 PM
I'm with Dusten!
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: The Old Fardt on May 21, 2008, 11:07:06 PM
I think there is more interest in a Heisler before any other engine. Still, only Bachmann will make what they believe will sell as they are in the business of making $$$..  I'm pretty sure if someone wants to invest the money to make any specific engine, they will listen. I for one, don't have the bucks to take that on...

Hoping everyone will get what they want, but truely, it ain't going to happen very soon....

I'm very happy with what I have now and that will have to do.  :)

Cheers,  TOF
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: max (uk) on May 22, 2008, 11:38:41 AM
I want a Hiesler. Like west side lumbers no2.
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: LurchBird on May 22, 2008, 12:24:03 PM
what about putting an O scale cab on the new HO 4-6-0?  What other details would need to be changed?  Steps, ladders?

Mark
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: ebtnut on May 22, 2008, 03:06:16 PM
FWIW, Train and Trooper was displaying a pilot model of the Tweetsie
4-6-0 in HOn3 at the Kimberton n.g. meet last weekend.  It's brass, and the list will be about $700.00.

Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Royce Wilson on May 22, 2008, 08:57:49 PM
That was the most beautiful narrow gauge engine made!

                                                            Royce Wilson ::)
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: C.S.R.R. Manager on May 22, 2008, 11:28:18 PM
The HO 4-6-0 is very small.  I know, I bought one on Ebay with the idea of making it into an On30 loco.  I do think the mechanism would fit under the On30 4-4-0, making it a 4-6-0, but that's a lot to invest in a small loco.  A larger boiler like the one on the mogul is way oversized for the HO 4-6-0 mechanism.

I do like the idea of an On30 10-wheeler, but there are lots of options other than the rather large Tweetsie version.  And haven't we discussed this several times already?

Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: mmiller on May 23, 2008, 08:33:06 PM
unfortunately, I doubt we'll see another Bachammn loco's that based on a 3', non-logging, non-industrial prototype...

:'(
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: The Old Fardt on May 24, 2008, 12:28:10 AM
 :)  Lookee at the cute little engines in latest May/June Narrow Gauge Gazette.  Darjeeling Himalayan Railway and what a layout that would be if one was creative enough to built it in miniature, say On30  :) Now I could make room for a couple of those nifty engines ...

Cheers, TOF
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Dusten Barefoot on May 24, 2008, 10:30:24 AM
Let's just hope we get what we want. I would like to see a Heisler, but would love to see a Late Hobb's ET&WNC 4-6-0. Yes the ET&WNC is a big BEAUTY. No one really wants a small compact little sucker. At least I don't, shoot if you want a small little thing, just take the body off of one of the Ma & Pa HO 4-6-0 and try to fit a mogule shell on, if that is still to big try the 4-4-0. Just some tips
Rock On & Live Strong!
Dusten
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: C.S.R.R. Manager on May 24, 2008, 11:11:19 AM
I hope you're wrong, Mike, since I would personally like to see more 3', larger rod locos from Bachmann.  Then again, I've got a pretty good roster of locos and rolling stock already, so maybe it's time to start working on a layout.  My wife has been telling me that the trains need a good place to run, and I can't argue with that.

It would be cool if this board could do polls, so we could vote for our favorite choice for the next Bachmann loco.  But I also expect that the locos have already been picked for '08 and maybe '09, so it's all academic, in the short-term anyway.
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: drgw268 on May 24, 2008, 09:29:50 PM
Quote from: Dusten Barefoot(The Rocker) on May 24, 2008, 10:30:24 AMNo one really wants a small compact little sucker.

No, unfortunately, I think most On30 modelers prefer equipment to pull 10 foot boxcars around 15 inch radius curves.

I'm holding out for a sub-$200 (street price) On30 K27/K28 from Bachmann, but I doubt we ever get one.
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: mmiller on May 24, 2008, 11:20:05 PM
Quote from: drgw268 on May 24, 2008, 09:29:50 PM
Quote from: Dusten Barefoot(The Rocker) on May 24, 2008, 10:30:24 AMNo one really wants a small compact little sucker.

No, unfortunately, I think most On30 modelers prefer equipment to pull 10 foot boxcars around 15 inch radius curves.

I'm not sure about most, but the most vocal ones sure do...  :-\
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: hminky on May 25, 2008, 07:56:16 AM
Quote from: mmiller on May 24, 2008, 11:20:05 PM
Quote from: drgw268 on May 24, 2008, 09:29:50 PM
Quote from: Dusten Barefoot(The Rocker) on May 24, 2008, 10:30:24 AMNo one really wants a small compact little sucker.

No, unfortunately, I think most On30 modelers prefer equipment to pull 10 foot boxcars around 15 inch radius curves.

I'm not sure about most, but the most vocal ones sure do...  :-\

Yeah, too bad, On30 could be so much better.

Harold
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Hamish K on May 26, 2008, 08:56:30 PM
Quote from: drgw268 on May 24, 2008, 09:29:50 PM
Quote from: Dusten Barefoot(The Rocker) on May 24, 2008, 10:30:24 AMNo one really wants a small compact little sucker.

I'm holding out for a sub-$200 (street price) On30 K27/K28 from Bachmann, but I doubt we ever get one.

I am not sure if this was intended seriously, but it points out the difficulty. Currently the major on line discount stores are selling non-sound Bachmann ON30 locos such as the 2-8-0, Forney, Climax, Shay and 4-4-0 from around  $190 upwards, often over $200.  A considerably larger loco for the same price? Then there is the question of curves. Like it or not many existing ON30ers have tight curves. If a loco can not cope with them, sales will be less. Smaller volume equals higher price. Thus I fail to see how Bachmann could produce a large 3 foot prototype loco for similar prices to their current range. Note that the large Scale 2-8-2 is selling for considerable more than other Large Scale Spectrum locomotives.

Bachmann could produce a large 3 foot gauge prototype if they wished. But the price would be higher, probably getting into MMI territory. Would people buy Bachmann at those prices? This would apply to any large prototype.

Hamish
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: glennk28 on June 04, 2008, 01:30:25 PM
Since the MMI locos are being built in Asia, I douibt that Bachmann could do them for much less--street price seems to be the mid $400's.   gj
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: heintz on June 17, 2008, 06:57:44 PM
Rather see a Sound  4-4-0. I am not buying one till they are sound.
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Tomcat on June 20, 2008, 03:59:24 PM
Actually I would love to see something "Colorado Style", why not a K-27? The G-Model does sell pretty well if I see it right, and I´m sure Bachmann could do cheaper than MMI, even they could do a better running model, or - why not bulding something which could fít on the Connie frame and wheelsets?

Could result in a C-21, why not? ;D ;D ;D

Whatever - I could imagine there is even a much bigger Market for a K-27 out there which could not get covered totally by MMI. A brilliant Bachmann Engine would make her way, that´s for sure. If she´s slightly a bit cheaper than a MMI, there you go Bach-man.
Take your chance. You can do better than MMI!

Tom

...or what about a Logging Mallet, or a Heisler (no-I´m not going to...) or a Three Truck Shay or Climax...????
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Dusten Barefoot on June 20, 2008, 05:49:35 PM
Na, I think a good Eastern style ET&WNC 4-6-0 would fit the bill, there is already too much colorodo stuff. :P
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Mister Lee on June 24, 2008, 12:42:00 PM
As much as I'd like to see a nice little 4-6-0 either based on the Tweetsie's 4-6-0 or something Baldwin built for one of the western roads, I fear that I have to concurr with Hamish; I doubt that a ET&WNC 4-6-0 would sell all that well. Most of us do have small spaces and tight curves and even On30 ten wheelers need a lot of room. Bachmann would do better to put out something like one of the US Army's World War One tank engines.

However, if Bachmann did make a Tweetsie-style 4-6-0, I'd buy one or more. I am interested in Latin American narrow gauge; I'm told by an authority on Cuban sugar cane railroads that Baldwin did rap out several copies of the ET&WNC design for one or more Cuban sugar cane railroads and that they ran early into the 1990's. (They've since been scrapped, drat it!).

This isn't the forum for it, but I think that someone ought to make On30 boiler, cab, and tender conversion kits to fit something like the Mantua "Petticoat Junction" ten-wheelers or the Bowser G-5s.
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Royce Wilson on June 24, 2008, 02:36:21 PM
While my alltime favorite locomotive,a Mason Bogie is probably not everyone elses. I would have to agree with Hamish on the little tank engine.
what I think probably does not matter a hill of beans to other folks , but I sure could use a little tank engine fer my minning operations.
I am strickly steam,the shay is too big,the Porter too small soo that 2-6-2-t would fit the bill just right. you ain't gotta model sugarcane to need a small engine. ;D

                                                                  Royce Wilson
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Dusten Barefoot on June 24, 2008, 05:32:52 PM
Im pretty sure there will by buyers for the engine, they may not be On30 modelers, but they will wbuy it anyway due to the ET&WNC on her if it is ET&WNC. Well then how come the 2-8-0 is a seller, she is not recomanded to go around a curve more than 18" radious, and yet she sells? So I am sure if Bachmann were to ever produce a 4-6-0 it would sell.
Dusten
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: japasha on June 24, 2008, 06:58:20 PM
Dustin,

It would be better to have the western 4-6-0. While many On30 people like sharp cures and ridiculously small rolling stock, most 30 inch roads, including the Mexican and Cuban used 25 to 30 foot rolling stock unless a cane or field operation.

22 inch radius is pretty darn tight.  I have an MMI K27 and it runs fairly well, but it needs closer to 36 inch radius to look somewhat normal. Just a hint, the Silverton Northern used C-16s and had the Chattanooga curve to contend with, 270 foot radius on a 4% grade. Blind drivers helped a lot. Nothing else was ever used on that line. The sidings had to be reached by idler cars.

Before you ask for something, Learn more about what the real world was like. The Tweetsie (Which I live near) wasn't built much better than the Colorado Roads. Same problems. These were industrial railways first and anything else was gravy.
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: C.S.R.R. Manager on June 24, 2008, 08:01:25 PM
For what it's worth, My On30 4-6-0 is the same length as the Mogul, and it has no trouble with 18" R curves.  I think Bachmann could make a Mogul-sized 4-6-0 work on 18" R curves pretty easily.  I'm not sure how big the Tweetsie 4-6-0 is in comparison.  Isn't it the same size as the Connie, about 48' long overall?  It might be more of a challenge.

A 270' radius curve is tight in real life...  That translates to a 67.5" radius curve in 1:48.  That's pretty amazing.  Pretty much all of our On30 curves are insanely tight when compared to real railroads.

M
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: glennk28 on June 24, 2008, 08:52:38 PM
For those who keep thinking that Bachmann could do an Onx K-27 cheaper than MMI--are you aware that the Blackstone HOn3 K-27's appear to be coming out of the same factory  as the Fn3 ones--and are close to the prices of the MMI Onx locos. They could do better with something not on the MMI schedule.  Or--something far enough distant they they could beat MMI to the market.  gj
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Dusten Barefoot on June 24, 2008, 09:18:41 PM
I know the history and the purpose behind the ET&WNC, maybe not as well as others do. Western Roads and Colorodo roads are the reason for me to push this locomotive til I can see her made. If a person buys a locomotive in NG stock what do they get? A western road is what a person see's every were in a hobbie shop, online you name it. Every ng Tenderd engine so far by bachmann has been a western or forign road name design other than the 4-4-0. I think it is about time for a eastern engine with some power. If she worked so good in G she can work good in On30. Bring some Eastern Power to the line.
Dusten
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Charlie Mutschler on June 25, 2008, 05:23:13 PM
Model railroad curves - almost without exception - are unprototypically tight.  This is just reality - most of us don't have a warehouse to build our railroad in, and the compromise is to force our equipment around curves typically found on industrial, logging, and street car trackage.  Dusten would like to see a 4-6-0, and there are calls for more 2-8-2s, and hopes to get around 18 or 22 inch radius curves in On30.  Lots of luck. 

For the sake of argument, let's consider the ET&WNC.  Their trackage was comparable to that in the Rocky Mountain west, which is where I have prototype data to support my points.  Presuming the ET&WNC was like most of the C&S, D&RGW, or RGS, the sharpest main line curves were generally 24 degrees - or 240' 6" radius.  (Actually main lines in Colorado included some 24.5 degree curves, but let's not split hairs).  That's about 60 inches in O scale.  Sixty inches radius equates to a 10 foot diameter circle.  Most of the On3 crowd running mikes (D&RGW or EBT, take your pick) think 44 inches is a reasonable minimum.  That, however, scales out to 176 feet radius - much, much sharper than the prototype.  Unfortunately, we all seem to be caught in that problem.  My hat is off to the model manufacturers, who have managed to design model steam locomotives which negotiate curves which are usually much to sharp for the prototype to operate on. 

Again, I think if I wanted something as large as the ET&WNC 4-6-0 in On30 / On3, I would be thinking in terms of something that could negotiate a 35 inch radius curve.  And my guess is that a good model that would appeal to the On3 as well as On30 market, would probably need something more like 40 to 44 inches.  The little 4-4-0 Bachmann offers in On30 is a beauty, and it gets around sharper curves than the large prototype for the Fn3 4-4-0.  For a typical Baldwin 18C 4-4-0 like E&P "EUREKA" wider curves are required - say 24.5 degrees.  So getting an On3 EUREKA around anything tighter than 40 inches might be a challenge. 

I think a number of people are interested in 4-6-0's, but I think the point about the large number of On30 people wanting locos that negotiate 18 inch radius curves is an issue.  Size of these locomotives makes it hard to design a good model of an ET&WNC 4-6-0 that would take such sharp curves in O scale, for all the same reasons the other manufacturer's On30 K-27 can't comfortably get down to 18 inch radius curves. 

Charlie
-30-
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Frisco on June 25, 2008, 07:15:32 PM
I would really like to see RGS #20 , it would make a great model because it....... 1. Is a 4-6-0 which has been asked for ....... 2. It goes perfectly whith other all ready produced models esp. the rail truck. .........3. although I agree that 18" probaly would not even be seen on a trolley line in real life , many ON30 modlers use that radius and this locomotive would easly go around it........... 4. The proto type still exists ( soon to be running at the Colorado Railroad museum) .
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Charlie Mutschler on June 25, 2008, 09:24:58 PM
Yes, I'm partial to the F&CC / RGS 4-6-0s, but that might not be as compelling a prototype for Bachmann as the ET&WNC 4-6-0 since they have the research done for that prototype.  As for cars?  Well, I think you have to give Bachmann credit for covering the continent with their prototypes.  No, it won't please everyone, but there really is something for nearly everyone. 

Eastern prototypes:  Box car, flat car, low side gondola - all appear to be very close to Ohio River & Western prototypes, right down to the Eames vacuum brakes used on the OR&W, Washington & Waynesburg, and a few other lines.  The stock car and tank car on flat car look very close to ones used in the mid-west on the Bellvue & Cascade, in Iowa.  Two bay hopper - East Broad Top.  Skeleton log car - looks similar to some used by Ely - Thomas.  Pulp rack - Sandy River & Rangely Lakes (2 foot) - Maine.  Locomotives:  Cornwall & Lebanon (2 foot) 4-4-0 - Pennsylvania.  Sandy River & Rangely Lakes (2 foot) 2-4-4T Forney - Maine - inside and outside frame versions.  The 2-6-0 is close and a good starting point for some of the Washington & Waynesburg and Ohio River & Western locos. 

Rocky Mountain prototypes:  Rail truck - Rio Grande Southern No. 1 (a very short-lived prototype)

Far Western prototypes:  The Shay can be used as the starting point for Michigan - California 2, but you'll need a new tender.  No absolute far-west only prototypes come to mind - except maybe the fact that the 2-8-0 is based on an export model sold to the FC Mexicano. 

The passenger cars are pretty universal, though several people have expressed interest in typically eastern board and batten siding.  The high side gondola and reefer are free-lance, but go well with the other equipment.  The side dump cars are nice contractors equipment that would look great with the Porters 0-4-0T and 0-4-2T. 

As I say, actually Bachmann has done pretty well at providing a diversity of products. 

Charlie Mutschler
-30-
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: japasha on June 25, 2008, 09:44:55 PM
Whether it's an RGS 4-6-0, SP or Tweetsie, they aree all about the same length, a little over 12 inches in 1/4" scale. The key is wheelbase.  at a scale 9'9"  that's pretty long. I have a pair of RGS 1/4" On3 ten wheelers and I can tell you that 36" radius is painful. The C-16s are actually smaller locomotives with a shorter total wheelbase due to small drivers.  The prototype had blind drivers which helped greatly.

I'd be more inclined to buy a Westside #14 shay. You have to really give Lee a lot of credit for picking smaller prototypes for model. The Porters are jewels as are the small shay and climax. These are true tight radius machines. Some of you need to see catalogs from the 1920s as the small shay was used to build many of the original US highways..
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Jake on June 25, 2008, 09:59:34 PM
I think so.
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: Frisco on June 26, 2008, 07:07:04 PM
One idea for Bachmann  would be to make all the parts for the ON30 line for buying and then to come up with a couple different tenders so that you can kit-bash their existing offerings (for example take the 2-6-0 and turn it into a SP ten-wheeler by adding a whale back tender and the four wheel piolt truck from the 4-4-0 + a few other detail parts ).
Title: Re: Aint it about time
Post by: The Old Fardt on July 02, 2008, 08:10:35 PM
Seeing how we are using HO or On30 track, why not use HO engines once in awhile for the missing ones not yet made in On30 ?  I tried it  and  what the hey ! NOT to unreasonable. Must of them are quit cheeeep too. A friend brought over his old Cab-forward he bought at a train swap meet/show for $30 used and it run fine around the layout. Sure, it was out of scale but we still had phun.... We can never ever have everything just as exact as the real thing !! Haven't yet seen a layout that fooled me thinking it was the real thing.  Oh ya ! I now have a used cheap HO Heisler that works until Bachmann does produce that On30 beast.
Your version might be different,    cheers,
TOF