As we visited the local model railroad muesum, as always, I ran through the pile of old model railroading related magazines they have on sale that are at no use. All are from 2000 to the year 1985. I found one I liked, and my father bought it for me, after I had some fun driving their O scale Alaska Railroad passenger run with Thomas the Tank Engine for the kid there. I read a New York Central fireman checklist book for a time, then we left with our newly obtained magazine. On the trip home, I found out it was dated:
January, 1960. Also, a funny discovery was made, the cover price is 35 cents, we purhased the magazine for only 25 cents. Probably the only thing old that isn't worth more, but less. I included a scanned picture of the cover, the scanner's rays brought out the dotted pigment, but you can still mostly make it out.
But due to the size being more then allowed for attachments, and me not allowed to have a Photobucket account lacks us the picture. Any ideas?
Let's see - in 1960 35 cents would be worth something like $3.35 or more today. In perspective, in September 1959 I bought my cadet sword, brand new, for $25. A new cadet sword today costs something like $350. In ca 1962, the minimum wage was $0.50 an hour.
Gene
Hey Gene: in 1963, the year I finished HS, the minimum wage in NYC was $1.15 an hour. MR was fifty cents and Craftsman was 35 cents. An Athearn 40 foot boxcar kit was $1.29 and little jars of Pactra paint were ten cents each.
I used to stop for pizza once a week and it cost 15 cents a slice. A hot dog and papaya drink were 35 cents from Papaya King and Orange Julius was 25 cents.
The day I finished college I bought my first HO engine kit - a Penn Line mikado. It was on sale for $29.95. You can still get one close to that price on Ebay.
I once had every issue of MR from 1959 and Craftsman from 1963. I happily gave them away (I didn't have the room to keep them.) I wish I had them now!
Later after inspecting the book, I found out the issue, although meant for January, 1960-was printed and released early on December 17th, 1959. Given the math being clear, next year, it turns 50 year of age. Drastic changes in pricing was noted by me also. A TYCO train set including:
- 2 Baltimore & Ohio F9 A units
- 1 Chesapeake & Ohio gondola
- 1 Set of cylinder containers for stock on gondola
- 1 Small one outlet tanker car
- 1 Stock car
- 1Great Northern boxcar
- 1 Refrigerator car
- 1 End caboose
All this is at a manufacturer price of $24.95. Much different then it's newer counterpart.
Model Trains was a great magazine. Lots of basic stuff; not nearly as formal or preachy as it's big brother: Model Railroader.
wow 1960
nothing wrong with giving our age away
use to go to polks on 32nd street
and madison hardware on 23rd st
woody i remeber the paints for a dime
a frankfurter for 15 cents
and the subway and bus for 15 cents
H.O. was starting to boom
also saw john kennedy pass on the lower east side
during his 1960 campaign
damm this forum is bringing back great memories
good luck john t brooklyn ny
You know I could always e-mail it to you guys. But only if your okay with it.
I found an Atlas ad in it, full page, and I scanned it.
Also a Fleischmann ad, back cover, and was scanned, it shows a electronic switch that is pretty bulky compared to our flat ones.
Speaking of prices for books, the new 60' catalog was only 50c for them. The Fleischmann Super Track Book is 20c, the Faller Illustrated Houses, Mills, Etc. book is only 15c, finally we have the vollmer Catenary & Willke roadbed book for 10c. According to the send out form on the back cover.
Ah,1960: generally accepted as the birth of N-scale, with the introduction of Lone Star's "F7" and Arnold-Rapido's "Baldwin Switcher" (not that either could be considered more than semi-scale models :D). A lot has happened in 48 years!
Timothy
John T - bet you didn't know one of my roommates, senior year in military school. You live close to 33rd Street? :D
Gene
Dear All,
The Kalmbach Magazine Index list this magazine as HO Monthly/Model Trains, abbreviated HOMT.
Earliest issue in index Sept. 1948, latest Jan. 1964 (that I can find).
Hope this helps.
Joe Satnik
Quote from: Joe Satnik on July 13, 2008, 10:21:44 PM
Dear All,
The Kalmbach Magazine Index list this magazine as HO Monthly/Model Trains, abbreviated HOMT.
Earliest issue in index Sept. 1948, latest Jan. 1964 (that I can find).
Hope this helps.
Joe Satnik
HO listed, but covers S, O, and O-27 too. So I would go to Trains.com correct?
Dear Santa Fe,
You are correct.
Sorry, old habits die hard.
It used to be known as the Kalmbach Magazine Index. About 4 or 5 years ago it was put under the Trains.com website.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
John T - I never saw JFK but was present for the parade they gave John Glenn for the first sub-orbital Mercury flight. We got out of HS classes that morning to go over to Broadway and stand along the parade route.
The ten cent Pactra paints were great when building Revell models. They even had railroad colors which were hard to find. Polk's on 32nd street carried Floquil and 310M (supplied by Roundhouse) which was made for styrene. The real serious modelers used either floquil or All Nation Lacquer.
I was telling a friend that the Athearn kits contained trucks that had to be assembled. Instead of springs they had these rubber things that you had to force into the space between bolster and side frame. I used to go to America's Hobby Center and buy sprung trucks, assembled, three pair for a dollar. They came in little white boxes.
For what you would pay for an HO Kadee box car today you could buy an HO diesel and a couple of cars.
Quote from: Joe Satnik on July 13, 2008, 11:17:59 PM
Dear Santa Fe,
You are correct.
Sorry, old habits die hard.
It used to be known as the Kalmbach Magazine Index. About 4 or 5 years ago it was put under the Trains.com website.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Hey, it's okay, most of it is HO, only S, O, and O-27 in some things like products, tips, and whatnot.
Ah, I was right, Trains.com- I always knew something nice would come out off that site, but I rather send a mail subscribstion out, so I'm not all the known about what they have. But knowing this, sure, I'll check it out.
Quote from: Conrail Quality on July 13, 2008, 04:22:27 PM
Ah,1960: generally accepted as the birth of N-scale, with the introduction of Lone Star's "F7" and Arnold-Rapido's "Baldwin Switcher" (not that either could be considered more than semi-scale models :D). A lot has happened in 48 years!
Timothy
Your right, this is saying it covers every scale/gauge (the book says gauge, but HO is scale- I know some are gauges), no N scale! Or Z scale.
The first issue of MR I ever bought was April, 1956, when I was just a tad. Through my childhood I hit most of the craft hobbies-- model trains, model airplanes, model ships, model autos. Trains, though were sort of the bedrock. Back about 1960, during the Christmas break, I was looking for something to do and rediscovered that old MR. In it is an article on scratch-building a Jone & Laughlin 20,000 gallon tank car. Well, I tackled that, and eventually got it built. Made a lot of mistakes, but learned a lot in the process. I kept it over the years, sort of as my "humility piece"-- a reminder of where it began, and the progess that can be made. Have been doing trains ever since.
hi guys
sorry steam gene i was raised on east 10 street
iam now in brooklyn
woody
i still have some late 50s early 60s
athearn kits unbuilt i picked up back in the 80s
its ashame years ago there were many many
hobby stores all over the country
still love those old h.o. revell kits
good luck guys john t brooklyn ny
I love to hear people complain about the quality of products. They didn't have to deal with Balky Athearn rubber band drive engines or kits that would take a miracle to assemble. There was brass "snap" track or yard long pieces of flex track that had fiber ties. A little moisture (from ballast glue) and they swelled, taking the track out of gauge.
The new modelers just want to take things out of a box and have them run. I feel that they are missing the enjoyment and satisfaction of taking something that needed to be assembled, tinkering with it, and watching it run for the first time.
My first kit engine was a Bowser L-1 mikado. I carefully worked on that engine until it ran effortlessly. What a letdown it was to find out that it could only handle a small train due to the weight of the engine and tender. That led me to Hobbytown...
Joe T - I think that the there was another brand of 10 cent paint - Testor's PLA. Or maybe the Pactra was "PLA" The PLA meant it was suitable for plastic.
Just showing off:
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=M&proc=HOMT
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG=HOMT&MO=1&YR=1960
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Quote from: Woody Elmore on July 15, 2008, 09:02:21 AM
I love to hear people complain about the quality of products. They didn't have to deal with Balky Athearn rubber band drive engines or kits that would take a miracle to assemble. There was brass "snap" track or yard long pieces of flex track that had fiber ties. A little moisture (from ballast glue) and they swelled, taking the track out of gauge.
The new modelers just want to take things out of a box and have them run. I feel that they are missing the enjoyment and satisfaction of taking something that needed to be assembled, tinkering with it, and watching it run for the first time.
My first kit engine was a Bowser L-1 mikado. I carefully worked on that engine until it ran effortlessly. What a letdown it was to find out that it could only handle a small train due to the weight of the engine and tender. That led me to Hobbytown...
Joe T - I think that the there was another brand of 10 cent paint - Testor's PLA. Or maybe the Pactra was "PLA" The PLA meant it was suitable for plastic.
I think your right, but my cement is done for, so I can't currently model, so I buy model kits a lot of freight cars. I don't have the tools for engine building, plus, if it turns out to be a dud, I can pin it on Athearn and get a new one easier.
Quote from: Joe Satnik on July 15, 2008, 09:33:38 AM
Just showing off:
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=M&proc=HOMT
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG=HOMT&MO=1&YR=1960
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Yeah, Jan. 1960, exact cover match, but it's red, not orange.
I was looking at the mags table of contents, and I saw "Ice Plants"...
Wazzat? Some kind of fancy flower with transparent cube shaped buds?...
Oh, oh,yeah, "Block Ice Factories" for the old reefers....
"Never Mind" (Emily Litella)
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
I wonder what that 'Ice Plant' thing is about...
The ice plants manufactured ice for reefer cars. There would be a long (10 car or so) platform at the height of the roof of the reefers. The hatch would be open and workers would push the block ice into the ice storage area of the reefers.
Quote from: Woody Elmore on July 16, 2008, 05:32:19 PM
The ice plants manufactured ice for reefer cars. There would be a long (10 car or so) platform at the height of the roof of the reefers. The hatch would be open and workers would push the block ice into the ice storage area of the reefers.
Oh the mag. :D I'm so silly :P :-[ :-\ . Yeah, I saw it, it's the ice loading platforms. Sorry. :P
A lot of that ice was cut from frozen lakes an stored in so called ice plants . If packed properly in sawdust and straw it would last until the lakes froze over again. Out in that strange world of model railways someone should be able to come up with a photo of the inside of an ice plant.
Don
Dear Joe S.,
I think you meant "Emily Litella."
Best Wishes,
Jack
Woody,
The Hobbytown Diesels were way ahead of their time. Back in the early 70s I was experimenting with R/C in HO and used a set of A-b-b-a f-7s to hose the motor, control and batteries. I had an identical set that was track powered and all were decrated for the Western Pacific in silver and orange. They could pull a 90 car train up a 2.5% grade with ease. I would demostrate the R/C unit at a club with most people in awe at the pulling capabilities. I did a set of SD-(, all for SP as individual unit and each was capabile of 40 cars up a 2.5% grade. You just couldn't stop them. A great product if you were serious about running large trains. I still have a pair of ALCO PAs in L&N colors to mess with the guys at the club with.
Model Trains had a layout series called the Portage Hill and Communipaw that any beginner should study for ideas. It was one of the best project railroads done by Model Trains and finished in Model Railroader. The articles are reprinted in Popular Model Rauilroads You can Build
Quote from: john tricarico on July 14, 2008, 07:02:57 PM
still love those old h.o. revell kits
I always thought Revell structure kits were particularly nice. I was thrilled recently when I finally was able to buy a complete, unopened yard building kit on eBay. :)
I like their model cars and paints.
Dear Jack,
Noted and corrected. Thanks.
Hope my reference brought a smile...
Emily Litella: I'm here tonight to speak out against busting schoolchildren. Busting schoolchildren is a terrible, terrible thing. ...
Good ol' Gilda Radner. Gene must miss her.
I figured out why my brain went to "the leafy variety" of plants.... Garden (Large Scale) Railroading.....
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
japasha - I had a two unit Hobbytown with Cary FT shells. There was no way I could see how many cars the engine would pull on the club layout. I think I got to 75 cars. I also had a Hobbytown PA, Alco RS-2 and their SW mechanism. I didn't care for the switcher mechanism because of a large nylon gear. All my Hobbytowns had great flywheel drives. Another member had an E-7/8/9 mechanism. I believe it had a die cast shell. This thing had the Hobbytown centrifugal clutch and was quite realistic. It would sit and slowly gain speed like the real thing.
When I joined an HO club in the mid Seventies Hobbytowns were the engines of choice. The only real alternative were Athearn products but they just didn't work with the longer club trains.
I had seen the Hobbytown booth at my last trip to the train show at Timonium. The current owner was including can motors for DCC control. I understand that the company has gone out of business and remaining inverntory was sold off. Too bad - Hobbytown made a great diesel drive.
Quote from: Woody Elmore on July 18, 2008, 09:21:44 AM
japasha - I had a two unit Hobbytown with Cary FT shells. There was no way I could see how many cars the engine would pull on the club layout. I think I got to 75 cars. I also had a Hobbytown PA, Alco RS-2 and their SW mechanism. I didn't care for the switcher mechanism because of a large nylon gear. All my Hobbytowns had great flywheel drives. Another member had an E-7/8/9 mechanism. I believe it had a die cast shell. This thing had the Hobbytown centrifugal clutch and was quite realistic. It would sit and slowly gain speed like the real thing.
When I joined an HO club in the mid Seventies Hobbytowns were the engines of choice. The only real alternative were Athearn products but they just didn't work with the longer club trains.
I had seen the Hobbytown booth at my last trip to the train show at Timonium. The current owner was including can motors for DCC control. I understand that the company has gone out of business and remaining inverntory was sold off. Too bad - Hobbytown made a great diesel drive.
Was it the couplers? All my Athearn products have trouble with the couplers all the time, only all the rest work.
But it does seem more than I would expect for it's time...
The issue was pulling power and speed. Athearn engines were great but when you coupled them to trains 20 to 25 cars long they just didn't perform well. The metal contact strip was always replaced with wires in my club and the sintered metal wheels seemed to collect dirt.
Our club had a rule that all wheels had to be metal and all couplers had to be Kadee. When Model Power came out with their FA and B units, I had an AB combination. I made a plastic drawbar to replace the couplers since I didn't want to run them separately. It also coupled the engines closer together so that I could add diaphragms (those silly Walthers vinyl jobs). I never had a pulling issue with the early Model Power (Roco) engines. The one problem was that the wheels would come loose on the axles. This also happened to the early Atlas engines (same maker-Roco).
I had two first run Atlas FP-9s done in Amtrak colors. They were assigned to pull this long streamlined 10 car train. Some of the cars were early Mantua metal, others were AHM with added weight and we had one full vistadome which I believe was Bachmann. Those engines ran effortlessly. Once the drawbar pin (I had these connected with a drawbar) came out and so only the rear engine was doing all the work. The engines were so well matched for speed that I didn't find out about the missing pin until someone found it between the rails somewhere!
Yeah, Athearn's aren't workers, you want Riverossi, Bachmann, Life-like Proto, or Stewart.
Quote from: Santa Fe buff on July 19, 2008, 06:04:43 PM
Yeah, Athearn's aren't workers, you want Riverossi, Bachmann, Life-like Proto, or Stewart.
The topic is what ?
Quote from: Pacific Northern on July 19, 2008, 06:24:02 PM
Quote from: Santa Fe buff on July 19, 2008, 06:04:43 PM
Yeah, Athearn's aren't workers, you want Riverossi, Bachmann, Life-like Proto, or Stewart.
The topic is what ?
Um, a 1959 released, but 1960 issued magazine?
topic of the sentence....
Once again, I understood wrongly, oh well.
The topic is about what I think are better workers then Athearn's engines, I listed them. I said that Athearn's engines aren't workers, I like Rivarossi, Bachmann, and Stewart models, and Life-Like Proto.
Don't get me wrong, Athearn has very nice engines, but some don't pull much compared to some other engines in those companies.
The topic was a Model Trains magazine from 1960 which lead to some comments about what was available an basically how the hobby has improved exponentially since 1960.
If you are in a flea market or train show and can pick up an old copy of MR or RMC or even Model Trains, I suggest you do because there is a great entertainment value at looking at the old ads and reading the articles.
Dear Joe,
Indeed I did get a smile! There is a pic of her and Gene standing together, her head in a turban to cover the hair loss from chemo, a huge grin! My favorite picture of her.
I love it when these threads digress. It was natural for this one. One time I posted something that quickly went to cars and TOC, and flathead Fords, and why not to use acetone in gas tanks, etc. I learned a lot from that one.
Thanks for this thread, guys.
Best Wishes,
Jack
Dear Jack,
Your welcome. When things pop into my brain I have to make a (fuzzy logic) decision... is this interesting/useful enough (and not too whacked out) to post?
(interesting enough+useful enough)¬(too whacked out)=post
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Quote from: SteamGene on July 12, 2008, 08:36:08 PM
Let's see - in 1960 35 cents would be worth something like $3.35 or more today. In perspective, in September 1959 I bought my cadet sword, brand new, for $25. A new cadet sword today costs something like $350. In ca 1962, the minimum wage was $0.50 an hour.
Gene
Okay, I know I'm late, but still:
Using the inflation calculator ( http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ ) I calculated that the 35-cent magazine inflates to $2.46 and Gene's cadet sword would cost $177.40 today.
Quote from: Woody Elmore on July 12, 2008, 09:25:25 PM
Hey Gene: in 1963, the year I finished HS, the minimum wage in NYC was $1.15 an hour. MR was fifty cents and Craftsman was 35 cents. An Athearn 40 foot boxcar kit was $1.29 and little jars of Pactra paint were ten cents each.
I used to stop for pizza once a week and it cost 15 cents a slice. A hot dog and papaya drink were 35 cents from Papaya King and Orange Julius was 25 cents.
The day I finished college I bought my first HO engine kit - a Penn Line mikado. It was on sale for $29.95. You can still get one close to that price on Ebay.
I once had every issue of MR from 1959 and Craftsman from 1963. I happily gave them away (I didn't have the room to keep them.) I wish I had them now!
More inflation calculations:
Woody's Athearn boxcar would be $8.75 now (which is more than most of us pay for the blue-box kits)
The pactra paints would be 68 cents
The pizza would be $1.02 a slice
Hot dog n' Papaya combo would be $2.37
His Orange Julius would be $1.70
and, his Penn Line Mikado would be $203.23 today.
Interesting!
Quote from: Paul M. on July 25, 2008, 11:01:41 AM
Quote from: SteamGene on July 12, 2008, 08:36:08 PM
Let's see - in 1960 35 cents would be worth something like $3.35 or more today. In perspective, in September 1959 I bought my cadet sword, brand new, for $25. A new cadet sword today costs something like $350. In ca 1962, the minimum wage was $0.50 an hour.
Gene
Okay, I know I'm late, but still:
Using the inflation calculator ( http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ ) I calculated that the 35-cent magazine inflates to $2.46 and Gene's cadet sword would cost $177.40 today.
Holy CRAP!!
I only got it for 25cents! I bought it less than the cover price, talk about a deal!!
Pizzas here in the NYC area run $12 to $14 for a plain old small cheese pizza. I don't know about Pactra paint but Floquil Polly Scale at Willis Hobbies is $4 a bottle.
Penn Line engines hover around one price despite the Ebay vendors' claims of being "rare" or "vintage." This is due to the fact that Bowser still makes them-much improved.
Magazines are really expensive due to the cost of paper and publishing plus the fact that people who read paper magazines are a disappearing breed.
It's nice to talk of the good old days but I remember a lot of really shoody products. The junk manufactured by Tyco when General Foods or whatever company bought the name is an example.
I found an old tyco UP gondola that my dad bought new in the early 70's. To my dissapointment (and his), it actually crumbled when I tried to take it out of the box. I glued some parts together and repainted it, now it's about 2 1/2" long. Now I'm kinda afraid to run my dad's old stuff fearing that it might not hold up much longer.
Ouch. Crumbling isn't what to expect.
Plastic molding has improved considerably in 30 + years. Used to have a similar problem with Plastic Ship models " Airfix Models" used to have the most brittle plastic & the most Flash on their parts. Revell had the best. Bandai were good but had instructions in Japaneze English ;Aurora & Lindberg weren't Bad either .
If I can find my dad's camera I'll post a pic of what I've done with it...
I have a no.of old model railroad mags. There are ads in the mgs from shops and mfg that no longer seem to exsist. I am hoping someone could supply the history.
America's Hobby Centre ,
Mar's Models
SMC Model Railroad centre
Pro Custom Hobbies
Hobby World ,Grand rapids Mich.
U.S General Hobbies
Madison Hardware
H.O Specialists Ardmore PA
Don
SMC was Sal Marino in Staten Island. He started as an Athearn dealer and expanded to other lines. He used to sell at a discount and his business was mostly mail order. At first his sales in the store were cash only and that hurt his walk in business. Myself and two friends would drive over to his store to buy Kadees in bulk. That was before the steep bridge tolls went into effect.
He expanded into cameras and dropped selling trains.
America's Hobby Center was on 22nd Street in Manhattan. It's entrance was hard to find and it was on the second floor. They basically were like Trainworld and Trainland are today. I would imagine that rising rents forced them to close.
At one time a trip to Manhattan could take you to AHC on 22nd street, Madison Hardware on 23rd streeet, Polks on Fifth Avenue and Carmen Webster's on 45th street. (There is still a hobby shop there.)
I failed to mention that Madison Hardware was a hardware store. They also specialized in Lionel repairs and parts. It was like Santa's Workshop for Lionel fans! They had all kinds of interesting trains on display, many of them very old. I don't remember how much "hardware" they actually had but I do remember a key machine.
The store was owned by twins. When Lionel went down the tubes they kept going for a few years but eventually closed their doors. I remember that the Lionel parts inventory was sold off.
Again, being located where they were - off Madison Avenue, the real estate was valuable and prices rose very sharply 25 years ago.
Thanks Woody.
I am always curious as to the fate of some of these business that appear to be well entrenched .
Don
I googled Madison Hardware and found that the contents of the store were auctioned off in 2003. I had no idea that the shop was in business that long. I do remember reading an obituary of one of the twins who, for years, fixed and sold Lionel trains.
Manhattan used to be be paradise in the 1950s. The Gilbert Hall of Science had an operating American Flyer layout which was always realistic. Then one could go over to Lionel on 26th street and see the big Lionel Layout - every item in the catalog was on display and working. I fell in love with Lionel Wabash trainmasters one year! Then you could go to Macy's Herald Square and see their Lionel display. Today they'd say it was awesome.
Polks Hobby Shop on 32nd second and fifth Avenue had several floors. There was a floor for plastic models-airplanes, ships, Revell military and things like that. Then there was a floor just for trains. They had a floor for flying models and r/c boats. They also carried games, Gilbert Chemistry sets and lead soldiers from Britain. It was quite a place.
Pro Custom Hobbies is still in business out in Eldersburg, MD. The original owner, Joe Luber had the shop in Catonsville, just outside Baltimore. Our friend Lee Riley worked there for a couple of years before moving on to "bigger things". Joe moved to Colorado and opened a second store out there, but that didn't quite work out and then he was diagnosed with cancer and passed away. The new owners moved the shop down the street for a couple of years before moving to their current location.