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Discussion Boards => HO => Topic started by: ThomasLloydGuy on March 10, 2009, 05:32:12 PM

Title: New layout design
Post by: ThomasLloydGuy on March 10, 2009, 05:32:12 PM
I am thinking about upgrading my 4x8 layout to something like this:
Any suggestons?
(http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/T-lloyd30/layout-1.jpg)
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: Cody J on March 10, 2009, 05:57:44 PM
That looks pretty sweet!!!
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: ThomasLloydGuy on March 10, 2009, 08:29:54 PM
thanks, also thinking of investing in a dcc system instead of dual cab wiring
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: Daylight4449 on March 10, 2009, 08:39:00 PM
I am doing that now after 6 years of dc railroading
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: Joe Satnik on March 10, 2009, 10:46:24 PM
Dear TLG,

Nice looking drawing. 

Sure beats my pencil scratching on the back of an old envelope.

A few things, though: 

There is not enough room between the 18" and 22" radius for another track, as you will get overhang crashes.

NMRA recommends 2-3/16" between track centers beginning at 18"R.

http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/s-8.html

With a 96" width, you will need a duck-under and a pop-up hatch to access tracks in the middle.

(John Armstrong recommends 30" max reach in his book "Track Planning for realistic operation, 3rd edition".)

That works out to a 60" width with a solid sheet (no pop-ups.)

You've got room for much longer radius curves with 96" board width.  Why 22"R max?

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik





 
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: ThomasLloydGuy on March 11, 2009, 01:43:50 PM
joe your comment is very helpfull, the reasoni though id use small radius' is so i could have more straight track, but ill mess around with a few ideas using bigger radius', thanks
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: ThomasLloydGuy on March 11, 2009, 01:47:27 PM
so do you think i should increase the track centers from 2" to 2.25"?
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: ThomasLloydGuy on March 11, 2009, 04:47:40 PM
so after a bit of though would it be good to redisign this with 2 1/4 between tracks and curves starting at 22" instead of 18". think this would work well?
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: NelsOn-30 on March 11, 2009, 06:17:07 PM
Some observations;

Reconfiguring the turnout at 8 across & 3+4 down would provide a double main line around the outside loop.

I couldn't find a reverse loop but be aware that the 2 TT lead tracks are of oposite polarity.

My other observations have been covered.

Keep us posted.
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: ThomasLloydGuy on March 11, 2009, 06:45:02 PM
which turnout do you mean when you say "8 across & 3+4 down"? I know there is a different polarity for 1 of the lines going into the turn table but i though i might control the turn table with 1 of my old dc controllers if its possible.
Also with the concern about me using a 18" radius, i am only running small 4 axle engines, no steam engines, would 18" radius still look good or should i try to upgrade to 22"
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: NelsOn-30 on March 11, 2009, 07:04:37 PM
Left hand side, 3 &4ft from top.

If this turnout came from the "inside" loop you would end up with a double track "oval" around the perimiter.

This would enable the unattended running of 2 trains, if desired, while operating within the engine terminal.
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: ThomasLloydGuy on March 11, 2009, 07:16:53 PM
i dont know how well you can see the picture but there is a double track around the perimeter, just the inside track turn into the center but it still makes a double oval
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: ThomasLloydGuy on March 11, 2009, 07:18:40 PM
but i do see on the right hand side about 3 feet down i could add turnouts and then there is a double oval and the bit in the center

*sorry about all the double posting*
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: NelsOn-30 on March 11, 2009, 09:36:13 PM
Thomas

Sorry, my dyslexia is showing, it is on the other left (right) side.
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: Joe Satnik on March 12, 2009, 09:25:35 AM
Nelson,

Good catch on the polarity. 

TLG,

The Atlas turntable has "A" polarity and "B" (opposite) polarity stall or lead-in tracks. 

One of your lead-in tracks has to be an "A", the other a "B".

The "compass" or "clock face" or "rotation" position of the motor-gear house determines which polarity your lead-in or stall will be. 

The house takes up 45 degrees (3 stalls worth) of space.  Since your lead-in tracks are 45 degrees apart, the house will not fit between them.  (Opposite polarities on either side of the house.)

You will have to move the stall track at 2:30 o'clock to 12:30 and put the house between 2 and 4.  This should put an "A" polarity at 8:45 and a "B" polarity at 7:15.

The gear house would then be close to your roundhouse (if you plan to have one).  You could move another stall track counter-clockwise to make more room between them.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik     
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: ThomasLloydGuy on March 12, 2009, 01:47:59 PM
yes i am aware of the polarity of the tracks leading into the turn table, do any of you know of a way or wiring this with dcc so that it can work, if not i can remove it. With the round house it will be the last thing i add to my layout, i have the turntable and roundhouse already from my current layout so i was gonna play it by ear for what fits.
so definitely im gonna haft to mess around with the positon of the turntable.
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: Tim on March 12, 2009, 03:10:04 PM
Thomas

If you are using DCC then wire all the perimeter tracks the same.

Insert an auto reverse module in the power feed to the bridge,
the polarity will then take care of it's self.

DCC Specialities  OG-AR will do the job.

Tim Anders
Souderton, PA
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: ThomasLloydGuy on March 12, 2009, 08:56:43 PM
~Tim

thanks, i'm still learning about dcc
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: Tim on March 13, 2009, 06:32:27 AM
Thomas

If you are using a starter set with less than 5a output the
OG-AR will not work, it requires 4a to trip.

Use the PSX-AR it can be set to trip as low as 1.27a.
Both units are made by DCC-Specalities.

Sorry I keep forgetting that not everyone is using 5a+ systems.

Tim Anders
Souderton, PA
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: Joe Satnik on March 13, 2009, 09:17:10 AM
Tim, TLG,

Tim said:

"If you are using DCC then wire all the perimeter tracks the same."

I'm guessing you mean "as you approach the turntable from any direction, DCC controller wire 1 always on right rail, DCC controller wire 2 always on left rail."

I disagree.

In this specific layout your two lead-in tracks are naturally the opposite polarity (as defined above) of one another. 

In general, lead-ins and/or stalls directly the opposite from one another are naturally the opposite polarity (as defined above).

Wiring (polarizing) the turntable lead-in tracks, stall tracks and bridge to their natural polarities (good for DC) will minimize the number of "trips" or "toggles" or "cycles" or "wheel pitting and arcing shorts" the reverser, controller and engine would go through. 

What if you want or need to temporarily run DC?  Flip a switch and you're ready to go.

I recommend Atlas book #12, "The Complete Atlas Wiring Book", which details the DC operation and wiring of the turntable.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik 
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: Tim on March 13, 2009, 11:36:02 AM
Joe

You,re correct on the wiring I should have said "same as DC" it's what I was
thinking just not what I wrote.

I do disagree with you on the wheel pitting.  The items I specified switch in milliseconds
thus do not pit the wheels.  I have had two of them working on my railroad for several
years (4a version) no sign of pitting on any of my equipment.

I understand that there are several devices on the market that can cause pitting, but
not the ones from DCC - Specialties.

Tim Anders
Souderton, PA
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: jward on March 13, 2009, 09:18:58 PM
one thing i would do that i haven't seen anybody else mention is i would add a small yard for your cars. it would go rather well with your turntable and roundhouse
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: ThomasLloydGuy on March 13, 2009, 11:03:43 PM
jward, i love yards but i find with 8' tables it really hard to fit in a nice one.
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: mikec069 on March 26, 2009, 12:32:43 PM
Please forgive my ignorance, but from what I can tell strictly from the picture, that layout is 8x8 not 4x8.  I have 5x8.5 of table space and actually attempted to do part of the layout and the "center tracks" came closer to edge of the second table then the middle of the two tables.

Like I said, it's probably my ignorance, but how does that layout fit on a rectangular table when the picture looks awfully square.

Last question, Are you using ALL sectional (ie Bachmann) or are you mixing in some flex-track?

Mikec069

Remember 2 + 2 = 5
for sufficient values of 2
Title: Re: New layout design
Post by: Terry Toenges on March 26, 2009, 01:50:52 PM
Mike - I think he's upgrading from 4x8 to 8x8.