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16  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 15, 2016, 08:05:26 PM
nice ! thanks I will definitely do this!
17  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 15, 2016, 07:47:01 PM
noted ... this would be a good time for me to do it.  so what ? put an insulated joint in and then a SPST on a wire to one of the rails?
18  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 15, 2016, 07:38:30 PM
NO PROB ..... in summary though "emperically" i think it definitely is best to have several feeds even on my 4x8 because already with only two engines just sitting still my track voltage is lower than when nothing is on the track.  what's the normal DCC track voltage 16 right?  i'm down to 15.5 right out of the gate and i think after i finish soldering the other feeders it will be much closer to 16 most importantly of course when they are running and going over turnouts.
19  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 15, 2016, 07:33:32 PM
sorry i said jward i meant to say jbrock ha ha ... your advise is always good
20  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 15, 2016, 07:12:10 PM
Your right ... You made me think ... I was actually measuring continuity on the same rail ... Across the rails I'm getting zero.  I think someone had said that before "there should be no resistance".  So it's all about voltage drop I guess.  I suppose then resistance doesn't factor in until there is a load in which case it's proportional to the voltage and current.  I suppose one cannot evaluate how adding feeders helps unless the VOLTAGE DROP is measured under load which I think is what jward meant when he said add feeders as you find it necessary
21  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 15, 2016, 04:20:18 PM
It's the internal resistance of the meter .... I can't imagine there being zero residence through the rails that's impossible.  I do have six turnouts but I measured lengths of track not connected to any of the turnouts as I was soldering several length of track together at the rail joints before placing them on the layout and the resistance was the same before and after connecting the turnouts.  Thanks for your constructive input though.
22  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 14, 2016, 08:32:23 PM
@jbrock27, I know your question was rhetorical, and people will only hear what they want to hear. Neither you nor I will convince them otherwise. Itís like beating a dead horse or talking to a rock.  Roll Eyes
I donít understand the why it is, of oneís choice, to do this either, other than they read on the internet, so it must be true. Therefore the ďrightĒ way.  Huh?

Dunno.

I donít want to take the spectator view on this thread.

But just to show others how silly this all isÖ
(Donít take my word, research this for yourselves) I will feel better if you do.

Letís, just for example, say oneís feeder lengths are 12in. (x2), so one would have 24 in. per feeder, and oneís choice is to use 20 gage AWG wire.
Letís also say oneís lokie is drawing 2A for a DCC/Sound equipped lokie running full speed (yes, Iím inflating that draw, most are probably less than half that) but again, just a hypothetical scenario.

Empirical data suggests that oneís resistance will measure .020 ohms. Therefore oneís voltage drop will measure 0.040v.

Using 22 AWG gage wire (same length, same current draw) will have a resistance of 0.032 ohms and a voltage drop of 0.064v.

0.064v drop. Not even a tenth of a volt.
Negligible, miniscule, unnoticeable, undetectable, and whatever other adjective one chooses to use to describe the ridiculousness of all this.

So to those that want to wire a 4x8 layout with Romex (12-2 or 14-2) for busses, and lamp cord (16/18 AWG) for feeders, knock yourselves out. I still donít see the advantage but rather the disadvantage as the op statesÖ
Quote
As it is i have to clip off a couple of strands just to get the wire to be able to fit in to the connections on the back of the command station.

Iím just suggesting, IMO, even if your CFO allocates funds to do this, those same funds could be better utilized somewhere else in the general fund account.
YMMV.
Iím done with this. Itís pointless to argue, there are no merits (cost vs. benefit). Again do your own research, and as alwaysÖ

Good luck


james what are you a wizard or somthing?
23  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 14, 2016, 08:22:01 PM
I don't want to have to fix anything down the road.  I don't want to have to be tearing stuff apart and finding problems and fixing stuff and sticking feeders up after I have ballast and dirt down.

And no one wants you to and no one want to see you have to.  My attitude about Feeders is add them as you find you need them.  I tried to get this concept across recently to TM203 but he had some difficulty grasping the concept.  You should anyway, be seeing how the layout runs BEFORE adding ballast (why dirt BTW?), then as you find you need to add Feeders you can.  That test operation should be taking place before ballasting anyway.   Even if for some inexplicable reason you later on found you needed a Feeder somewhere, all is not lost.  You can clean an outside section of rail with a small brass bristle brush, use some Rosin Paste Flux and solder where you need to.  Don't think that has ever had to be done before by a Model Railroader?


[/quote]

i'm testing it now ... so far so good.  why dirt ? i dunno I want it to look real.  my switching yard i'm modeling after the strasburg railroad in PA and there is no ballast in their yard its just dirt and stuff .... muddy water and stains from the coal.
24  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 14, 2016, 06:08:20 PM
James if you'll remember my original thread was asking can I use 22 gauge wire.  I didn't want to use anything larger but I did because a few people with experiment suggested it.  I had also noted that I was getting the same resistance from rail to rail as I was rail to feeder which means my multimeter can't even measure the difference.  However clipping off some of the buss wires to make it fit is not harming anything it's not the same as say putting a 1/4 inch fitting on a half inch pipe. 

The main thing here for me as with all things in life .... I don't want to have to fix anything down the road.  I just booked my layout up with one feed only to test everything and it works like a charm however over time maybe somthing does out that's why I put multiple feeders in.  I don't want to have to be tearing stuff apart and finding problems and fixing stuff and sticking feeders up after I have ballast and dirt down.
25  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 14, 2016, 10:31:02 AM
Y ah ... i mean my solder joints are real good I'm testing resistance from one part of rail to another part and I'm getting 1.8 ohms consistently.  If I test from rail to feeder wire I'm getting 1.8 ohms so I mean there is virtually no resistance measurable being added by the wire. 
26  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 13, 2016, 10:03:24 AM
j ward ... got you.  I have 4 engines right now and with the lights according to info I read they probably only draw about a quarter amp each.  my command station I believe can provide 3 amps.  I tried looking for a specification on 18 gauge and everything i've found says it can handle up to 6 amps.  to be conservative though (and to ensure the wires don't heat up) I bought 18 gauge and 12 gauge.  i'm running the buss with the 12 gauge and each feeder is 8 inches from rail to buss.  I personally think it is major over kill but the reason why I posted is I have no experience so i'm basically going with all of your recommendations (for the most part).  The NMRA i think recommended 10 gauge for buss wire and it was only a couple dollars more but my soldering iron cant easily solder that thick of wire so that is why I wanted to use 12.  As it is i have to clip off a couple of strands just to get the wire to be able to fit in to the connections on the back of the command station.  thanks for your input though and your right soldering 18 to the rails is pretty straight forward.  I was hoping to be able to use 22 gauge because that is REAL easy to solder to the rails.
27  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 10, 2016, 11:54:11 PM
I want to put my command station away from the layout on the other side of the room ... I have four or five engines on there two with sound but only one running at a time usually
28  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 10, 2016, 04:30:03 PM
I haven't had any problems with reception but I do get major interference with my tv and or my ceiling light ... The light had to be off or it will NOT work
29  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 10, 2016, 06:52:47 AM
Well ... I don't really have a good quality command station ... I have dynamis ... So I didn't want to gang the feeders together and then connect them to the unit because it has a small electrical connection in the back so I decided to go with buss wires.  Therefore each feed from the track to bus will only be about 9 inches.  The buss wire will be about 50 feet total to cover the perimeter of the layout and then I'm gonna have the station further away so it is out of the way and so that the receiver is placed in better sight
30  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: wire gauges on: August 05, 2016, 07:39:27 PM
Thanks , well I definitely don't want any problems so I will use 12 and 20.  I just find it hard to believe that an amp or two could cause wire to heat up but I will take the advice that is why I asked ... The dollar amount between those recommended and what I wanted to use is very small. 
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