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1  Discussion Boards / On30 / Suggestion- Baldwin outside frame 0-6-2T on: November 04, 2017, 10:58:04 PM
My family and I spent a little over a week on the island of Kauai in 2016, during which time I became fascinated with the history of the Hawaiian sugar railroads.  In the year plus since, I've often thought that one of the Baldwin outside frame 0-6-2T locomotives once so common throughout the islands would be a perfect addition to the On30 line, especially in as much as so many of them were built to 30-inch gauge.  I see in doing a search of the archives this product has been suggested a couple times in the distant past, the last specific ones being close to a decade ago. 

Three of these still exist on Kauai, and several more 36" gauge machines exist elsewhere.  One of these served for a while on the Roaring Camp & Big Trees.  The three on Kauai are all 30" gauge and part of the Grove Farms collection...

https://grovefarm.org/hawaii-trains/

There's also a nice video of one of these in operation from a couple years ago on the short amount of trackage Grove Farm has:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcnwsAOtagw

I'd like to revive the suggestion of producing these plus a string of cane cars in On30...I know my wallet would be in some measure of jeopardy should these be made...

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV 
2  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: Susquehanna 2-8-2 SY class re release? on: January 08, 2017, 03:03:36 PM
I for one would sure like to see a Baldwin 90-ton, 48-inch driver logging/shortline mikado.  I know my bank account would be in serious trouble if Bachmann made one of those...

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV
3  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: Bachmann HO 2 truck Climax: Is there an oil bunker available? on: November 02, 2016, 01:44:50 AM
Depends on what part of the Nevada desert...there were if anything more coal burners operating out here than oil or especially wood, especially given the close proximity to the Utah mines.  That being said, I'm not aware of any drop in oil bunkers, I made on out of sheet styrene and an oil bunker I'm pretty sure came off of a Rivarossi Heisler.  Plus the water spout from the Climax.

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV
4  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: A Small Mikado? on: September 07, 2016, 11:33:10 PM
So, in my opinion this is one of the largest holes in the modeling world at the moment.  There was a time when I would suggest a basic 90-ton Baldwin logging mikado as being an excellent addition to the Bachmann line, but I've long since given up that they will.  I hope to be surprised one of these years...but so far no dice.

As for modeling, your best option might be to start with one of the North West Short Line/Toby 70-ton Baldwin logging mikados, brass imports from a couple decades ago.  There were at least two versions of the Polson/Rayonier #70, one early and one late, which is today operating on the Mt. Rainier Railroad.  Both the prototype and the model are slide valve saturated steam, unusual in as much as the locomotive was built in the early 1920s long after such equipment had given way to piston valves and superheaters.  The other two models that I know of are both superheated piston valve machines, representing the Georgia Pacific #5 (formerly Brooks-Scanlon Lumber Company, on display in a park in Corvallis, Oregon) and Owen Oregon/Medford Corporation #3, now California Western #45.  The biggest drawback for these models if you are after a 90-ton "Mike" is that they all have 44-inch drivers, the 90-ton version has 48" drivers.  These brass models show up on ebay on a fairly regular basis, especially the Polson/Rayonier #70. 

One other possibility might be the Life-Like 0-8-0, I don't know the driver size under it but they look to be about the right size...you would have to get rid of the entire boiler and cab and replace it with something smaller, and I don't know if the mechanism will fit, or can be modified to fit, under somthing smaller.  But that would be another possible starting point with some strong possibilities. 

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV
5  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: Authentic logging related rolling stock for 80 Ton Three-Truck Shay on: February 06, 2011, 02:28:23 PM
mattyg1306 wrote:

"Really, even though I am a Cass fan and proud of it, I will admit that Bachmann focuses a great deal on Cass because it is a "living" example(and Bachmann's headquarters in Philly is in relatively close proximity to Cass, making it a great source for their inspiration)...albeit in a different form as a tourist line...and very little on other prototypes, at least in HO scale so far (btw, Bach Man, I'm not dissing the Cass releases in any way...keep them coming but offer some other protos, too!)"

And I reply:

While the Bachmann models are based on Cass prototypes, they are very close to similar type machines used extensively around the industry.  That being said, I agree with your statement about needing other prototypes as well- it would be really nice to see, for example, a 70- to 90- ton Baldwin mikado on 48" drivers in the Spectrum line, along with a small list of other cars such as Hart 20- to 25-yeard side dump hoppers, the Pacific Car & Foundry "loggers special" ballast hopper, at least one of the various "loggers special" locomotive cranes produced by Brownhoist or Ohio, just to name a few...

One more interesting variation on the disconnect car theme occurred on the McCloud River operations in northeastern California.  In 1925 the McCloud River Lumber Company changed their logging practices from yarding short log chunks to yarding 32-foot long logs out of woods.  This change alone increased their logging output by 5,000 board feet a day, but it also posed a problem in how to handle the logs once they reached the railhead.  The McCloud River Railroad owned a fleet of several hundred short 26- and 28- foot flatcars at the time to handle the log traffic generated by the lumber company, and their common practice was to place the 32-foot long logs across two of the short flats for the trip to the mill.  This lasted until the railroad could purchase enough 40-foot flats, and rebuild enough of the short flats to 40-foot length, to handle the log traffic.  Not "true" disconnects, but along the same general idea... 

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV
6  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: Authentic logging related rolling stock for 80 Ton Three-Truck Shay on: February 05, 2011, 06:24:44 PM
I'll add a little to what has been written so far...

First off, disconnected trucks were common, but not universal.  What kind of log car an operation used was largely a reflection of what the company's harvest practices were, and, to a large part, what was available.  Skeleton log cars were perhaps the most commonly used, as they presented a number of advantages- no car deck for bark to accumulate on, the ability to have train brakes, and rugged construction.  However, as noted, the use of flatcars and/or skeletons limited the length of logs that could be loaded.  Where the companies chose to buck their logs- i.e., cut a downed tree into smaller, more manageable chunks- played a large roll in this.  The most common approach was to buck the tree on the ground as soon as it fell, which made the job of skidding the log to the railroad landing that much easier.  In such a case, flats or skeletons were far more practical than disconnects.  An additional factor is if the logging railroad operated its trains over any common carrier trackage, as ICC and state rules generally prohibited the use of disconnects on common carrier lines, though exemptions could be obtained.  However, if the company operating practices dictated delivery of longer logs to the mill, then disconnects would have been used.  Era plays a part in it to- disconnects were more prevalent in the early years.  Loggers seemed to transition later to flats or skeletons, especially if they had any sort of steep decending grades on the line, as with a train of disconnects you only had the engine brakes and manual application of hand brakes on each disconnect to fight gravity.  


In addition to log cars, your typical logging railroad would also have a collection of service equipment.  Nearly every operation had at least one or more steel flatcars with heavy frames, used to move logging equipment into and out of the woods.  The logging railroad was often used to provide supplies to outlying logging camps, which would require at least a couple boxcars and maybe a refrigerator car or two.  Logging equipment itself burned a lot of fuel, and the logging railroad would often have fuel cars- either wood flats equipped with wood racks for wood powered equipment, or steel tank cars for fuel oil.  Gasoline cars became common in later years as internal combustion replaced steam powered logging equipment.  Water was also a never-ending need in most operations- in the earlier years to keep men and animals hydrated, later to keep water in the boilers of steam powered logging equipment.  Your typical logging railroad would likely have numerous water cars, ranging from wooden boxes on flatcars to steel tank cars, to meet this need.  And then there would be a few pieces of more specialized equipment- a locomotive crane or two, a snowplow if you operated in snow country, ballast hoppers for ballasting track, your track gangs would likely have a small collection of work flats dedicated to the never-ending chore of building new log spurs and picking up the old ones, you would need a few fire cars to fight forest fires- mostly water cars equipped with pumps, hose, and firefighting tools, and then a lot of operations had outfit cars that housed track construction or logging crews out in the woods.  

For a good overview, I'd recommend finding the January through April 1984 issues of Railroad Model Craftsman.  RMC carried a four part series on pacific coast logging in those issues- January featured an overview of the logging industry, February covered the steam locomotives used in logging service, March covered steam era rolling stock and other equipment, and April covered the diesel era.  

As for specific recommendations, I'd suggest finding Kadee or Rivarossi skeleton cars, or Bachmann log flats, or Tichy Train Group's 42-foot flatcars- a very close representation of flatcars built by Pacific Car & Foundry that were extensively used in the logging inudstry.  Add a wood boxcar, a couple Life-Like 8,000 gallon tank cars, and a caboose- either one of Bachmann's 4-wheel models, or better yet one of MDC's old side door cabooses- and you'd have yourself a fairly accurate train to go with your Shay.

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV

 
7  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: Logging mikado on: January 02, 2011, 01:31:04 AM
I'd second, or third, or whatever it is, the suggestion...in many places, mikados such as these were actually more common than the geared steam logging modelers love, but other than five or six brass models of 70-ton prototypes they have never been available...

My vote would be for a 90-ton model...but then again I've been saying this on the Bachmann boards for several years now...I hope to see it one day happen.

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV
8  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: More logging theme cars, buildings ect needed. on: December 03, 2010, 12:15:29 AM
Maybe twelve years ago Walthers ran a "Trees & Trains" series that included a modest sized sawmill, a planing mill, a lumber yard, a paper mill, log cars, woodchip cars, centerbeams, a book, and some other items.  The log cars were based on Milwaukee road prototypes; the woodchip and centerbeam cars were modern; and the sawmill buildings could fit in most eras, though it would be most appropriate for more recent layouts.  Most of these kits have been long discontinued, though a few have been re-issued a time or two, and most can be found at swap meets.  Walthers also did a "backwoods enginehouse" that has been long out of production but does closely represent something that would be found on a logging railroad.

I would second the motion for rolling stock such as camp cars, but I'd like to see other cars made available too, such as the Loggers Special ballast hoppers produced by Rogers and others that were used extensively in the woods, 20- to 25-ton steam powered Brownhoist or Ohio cranes, fire and water cars, etc. 

In my opinion, what is really missing from the HO scale market is a Baldwin logging mikado of the 70- to 90-ton wight range.  A lot of these saw service in the western woods- in a lot of areas, they were more prevalent than the geared locomotives everyone loves- but they have only been made available in five or six brass versions, all 70-ton models.  I'd like to see these before anything else. 

Lastly, one thing to keep in mind is that very few of the sawmills that you see built on your "typical" model logging railroad would ever be big enough to warrant construction of a logging railroad.  Then as now, railroads required a substantial amount of capital expenditure to build, equip, and operate, and in order for them to be economically justified the sawmill had to be large enough to produce enough volume of lumber to pay for the railroad.  Sawmills supported by a railroad almost had to be bigger than what most modelers have room to display. 

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV   

How about some HO versions of the "camp" cars that Bachmann did in On30?   They could be sold seperatly or in a compelte set.   Bachmann has done the motive power, has a logging flat car and car if you want to haul the tourists.  But we need some proper camp cars for the loggers, affordable skelleton style log cars.  The flats are nice, a bit over priced IMHO for what you get.   Rivarossi used to do a nice plastic one, Kaydee still does but also higher priced and a kit that many modelers might not care to attempt.  The Skel log cars plus the bobber caboose would make the perfect train for the Shay or Climax engines!   How about structures, a nice small sawmill designed to put next to a log pond, one that would fit the average home layout and not the huge variety.  How about an unloading "jill poke" to go next to the track and some skidding donkeys to put at the log loading area and out in the woods.   Logging is the prefect small layout prototype when money is tight in the train budget.  Most logging RR's had only a couple of engines, a small sawmill and a few log skels or disconnect style trucks to haul the logs.   A small back woods engine house that is long enough to house the 3 truck Shay or Climax would also be an awsome add on sale.   Bachmann could offer a whole logging series that doesnt require the modeler to deal with craftsman style kits that make up the bulk of the logging theme buildings on the market that work on a small layout.  HO versions of all the logging items in the On30 line up would be a good start.  Walthers did a sawmill series, but it was more modern and took quite a large layout to deal with the size of the structures.   How about it Bachmann?
9  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: spectrum wish list on: July 10, 2009, 07:26:06 PM
I will third the motion for a Baldwin logging mike, something along the lines of the CC&C #15 featured, or McCloud River #14, #15, or #18, or Rayonier #70, or a bunch of others...very, very common locomotive in the logging and shortline world, but it's only been done in model form in a couple of brass 70-ton mikes imported a few years back.  Sure would be nice to see the 90-ton version made in HO scale...but I've said that for many years now. 

Maybe next year.

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV
10  Discussion Boards / General Discussion / Re: Pearl Harbor movie Loocomotive on: July 09, 2009, 12:35:41 AM
First off...don't go bashing Hollywood that quick.  Parts of the movie depicted the lives of the main characters prior to the war, and that is the part of the movie the trains showed up in.  I recall no hints of Hawaian railroading in the film.

I think Joe's right in that the #3751 had a cameo appearance in the movie.  The film crews also used the SP 4-6-0 (I think) that the Pacific Southwest Railroad Museum has at Campo, California.  It got more air time than the #3751 and actually showed up running at track speed a time or two. 

This being said...in one of the scenes a couple of the characters are seated in a coach as a train is pulling out of a major terminal, and about half of a modern passenger diesel is visible through their big picture window.  Hollywood ain't perfect after all. 

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV
11  Discussion Boards / General Discussion / Re: A MAJOR list! on: September 21, 2008, 09:48:30 PM
Check again, glennk28- the YW is on the list not once but twice.  Both entries are in the bottom quarter or so of the list. 

Say hi to Conductor Roger for me!

Also, thanks to Guilford Guy for the plug on my COP site.  Much appreciated.

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV

 

12  Discussion Boards / General Discussion / Re: A MAJOR list! on: September 20, 2008, 03:10:04 PM
Something that would help is if you would put the entire list in alphabetical order.  You could do this by copying and pasting it into any word processing program, order the list, and then copy and paste it back onto the board.  That would make it a lot easier to eliminate duplicates and look for ommissions.

You appear to have placed name trains into italics.  If this is the case, then you need to un-intalic the City of Prineville.  That is an actual railroad and not a named train.

That being said, here are a few that I don't already see listed:

Big Creek & Telocaset
Almanor
Union Railroad of Oregon
Oregon & Northwestern
Oregon California & Eastern
Condon Kinzua & Southern
Oregon Eastern
Wyoming/Colorado
North Coast Railroad
Sumpter Valley
Nevada Northern
Nevada Copper Belt
Nevada-California-Oregon
Eureka & Palisades
Eureka Nevada
Nevada Central
Klamath Northern
Trona
Humboldt Northern
Oregon Electric
Oregon & Eureka
Chehalis Western
Curtis Milburne & Eastern
Malheur Railroad
White Sulpher Springs & Yellowstone Park
California Western
Caspar South Fork & Eastern

There are still many more out there...

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV
13  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: New road name for the GE 44 ton on: September 19, 2008, 02:03:11 PM
I'm a little late to this thread...please accept my apologies.

First off, the diesel on the V&T is NOT a 44-tonner.  It's an 80-tonner, originally a military unit that went to the Western Pacific Railroad Museum in Portola, CA.  The V&T traded an old Western Pacific turntable to the museum for the diesel back around 2003.  Dave Epling has some pictures of this unit in service back in the summer of 2005 at the following link:

http://cencalrails.railfan.net/vtrr2005.html

Second off, the V&T that this diesel works for is a completely different outfit than the public commission that is rebuilding the V&T between Gold Hill and somewhere in the Mound House/eastern suburbs of Carson City area.  How this V&T- which is owned by Bob Gray and his family- will coexist with the rebuilt V&T is something that is not even close to being finalized yet and is the subject of a lot of contention. 

But back to the subject of possible roadnames for the 44-tonner...I'd love to see the Aracata & Mad River:

http://ncespee.railfan.net/Foothill/images/amr102.jpg

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV
14  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: Spectrum 2-6-2 'Prarrie' Wanted on: November 08, 2007, 01:42:07 AM
I find this thread interesting.  A lot of the feelings expressed so far seem to be more from the frame of reference of the poster.  To many a decent prairie would be a waste of materials and efforts.  To be fair, the type was not exactly the most popular in mainline situations.  As noted, quite a few railroads did own them, but tended to use them in niche situations.

That being said, a prairie would be a boon for those of us who prefer shortline or industrial prototypes.  Especially logging roads.  Prairies saw use in the logging railroad industry in all corners of the North American continent.  A prairie type in the 50-60 ton weight range would be ideal for so many operations.  No, it won't be for everyone, but there are a lot of us who would welcome such a model.

My dream model would be a 2-8-2 mikado type, of the 80-90 ton weight range riding on 44-48 inch drivers.  Baldwin and a couple other manufacturers built several hundred of these for the logging, industrial, and shortline market.  Like the prairie type, they have only been done in brass.

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV 
15  Discussion Boards / HO / Re: Water Tanks from old Tenders on: October 07, 2007, 01:17:24 AM
I would say it would not be common to find tenders used in the way you describe in the U.S.  Tank cars would be more likely used for this task, and there have been at least a few main line scenarios where a lack of locally available supplies forced the railroad to import water from other places in tank cars.  In many cases if tank cars were used they would be pumped with steam driven pumps, sometimes mounted on the tank car, that would be powered by steam provided by the locomotive.   

That being said, you could expect to see some actual water tanks made from old tenders, although once again tank car bodies were far more likely to be used.  The Condon Kinzua & Southern railroad in eastern Oregon did exactly this with the water and fuel bunker off of an old Shay of theirs, as seen on the second photo down at the following link:

http://www.trainweb.org/highdesertrails/cks/JerryLamper.html

If a crew ran into serious water trouble the easiest solution involved drafting water from a creek or pond or any other natural water source near the tracks.  Many locomotives carried lengths of hose specifically for this purpose. 

The primary use for old tenders has already been alluded to.  Many were converted into m-o-w use, mostly as water or fuel cars.  Quite a few had all of the tanks removed, with the frames converted into snowplows or transfer cabooses or other similar equipment.  And quite a few were converted to fire cars, especially on western logging railroads.  A few of the companies- with Simpson and Rayonier, both on Washington's Olympic Penninsula, and the Medford Corporation in southern Orego being three prime examples- partially or completely scrapped the original tender bodies, with smaller fabricated tanks mounted on the frames and the rest of the deck space used for toolboxes, tool storage, rerealing frogs, fire tools, cables, and anything else that the logging railroaders felt they might need in the woods.  Over on the eastern side of Puget Sound lumber giant Weyerhaeuser operated extensive logging railroads tributary to their operations south of Tacoma, and when they purchased diesels and scrapped their steam locomotives in the late 1940's they kept two tenders for use as fire cars, with those cars still in on hand and basically un-modified from their original form when the last vestiges of these operations- the Chehalis Western- finally closed in 1990.

Jeff Moore
Elko, NV
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