Modeling the prototype of a freelance locomotive

[ryeguyisme]

of course I mean I'm modeling a locomotive after a model of another modeler known as the great poo-bah, "The Wizard of Monterey" of course I'm speaking of John Allen, as an early model railroading Icon, he paved the way introducing the numerous ideas we now call everyday modeling. His model railroad came to be known as the Gorre and Daphetid

Onto the project: an extensively kitbashed 4-10-0, I've studied this locomotive for years, it is one locomotive of two known surviving locmotives that escaped the fire that copletely demolished a perfectly wonderful piece of art. Andy Sperandeo has this locomotive in his possession as he was a close friend of John's.

To date only one person has replicated this locomotive, built by Dave G. of the yahoo group dedicated to the memory of this artist

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GandD/

you can see the photos there if you join, as well as a whole boatload of information.




*Cropped photo from a slide (*courtesy of the NMRA)

i recently acquired a decent amount of parts to build the locomotive, the most basic would be a Varney heavy consolidation boiler (got two of the same varney engines at the Springfield show)



and I just won a spectrum 2-10-0 with sound on ebay for about $132 tonight

and I'm hoping to crop the decapod down for this boiler to fit on the mechanism(believe me I will) and I have to replace the cylinders(with varney casey jones cylinders) and the main siderods(replaced with longer ones) all so I can fir the 4 wheel pilot under it(also casey jones)


the only fear I have is will the decapod mechanism stand up to this massive weight increase? As the new boiler is going to weigh a whopping 20+ oz. I have a spectrum 2-10-2 that is out of commission because the teeth on the gearing(from motor to axle) chewed itself out(which I still have yet to replace those gears)

I will update on progress as the locomotive comes in the mail and I do some work.(with being unemployed I tend to have  an excess of time to squander) 


Opinions and any help would be useful if anyones willing to share

[J3a-614]

Good luck on the project and on the job search (my wife is in your shoes as well).

C&O J3a 614

http://www.piercehaviland.com/rail/railimages/Njstea2.jpg

[ryeguyisme]

thanks I'm going to need ittt 


I was wondering, has anyone had trouble with the spectrum decapod's gearing??

[Guilford Guy]

You got quite a deal on that 2-10-2, far better than the 2-10-0! 

[ryeguyisme]

You got quite a deal on that 2-10-2, far better than the 2-10-0! 

I know, and I'm grateful thats why Im hoping to get it running again maybe I put a name plate on it and call it the "Great Guilford)

[ryeguyisme]

UPDATE: 3/8/10

Gathering parts together and awaiting the arrival o my spectrum 2-10-0 w/sound

did some tweaking with consolidation side-rods and some casey jones mechanism parts along with the pilot truck and the cylinders



Comparison photos





I'm realy excited to be able to commence with this project, I've been waiting years and years to do this

[Doneldon]

You could use brass gears for a little more robust drive train and possibly use a first gear with fewer teeth so you can rev the motor without sending the loco down the track at light speed.  That's OK for a model like this as a 10-coupled locomotive would be a drag freight loco, not a passenger speedster.  You might want to rething the Varney cylinders; they could look a little lightweight for what would have been a very powerful locomotive.

[ryeguyisme]

well the original model had those cylinders and without it, it wouldn't have the same appearance

[J3a-614]

Rye,

I think the cylinders look fine; the "prototype" of G&D No.34 would have had 50" drivers vs. the 63" or higher drivers of the SP prototype 4-6-0 the Varney model is based on, and would have had the effect of increasing the tractive effort with a given cylinder size and boiler pressure.

This formula, expressed as best as I can with the limits of a computer keyboard vs. a manual typewriter,  is (85%PXbXbXs)/D, or 85% of the boiler pressure, multiplied by the square of the cylinder bore (or the bore multiplied by itself), and multiplied again by the stroke, and the whole business divided by the driver diameter.  A smaller driver diameter thus does not reduce the piston thrust as much as a larger wheel does, subject of course to another formula, the factor of adhesion (typically taken as 25% of the weight on the drivers for steam engines).

Evidence of at least the visual "correctness" of No. 34 may be taken by comparing it with an engine that would have been of comparable overall size, N&W's M-2 4-8-0, which had 57" drivers:

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=11742

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=817

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=819

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=820

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/listdocs.php?index=rs&id=193&Type=Picture

The Reading I-10 (basis of the Vaney model and Bachmann's old 2-8-0), as I recall, was a very large 2-8-0 weighing something like 150 tons, comparable to similar large engines on the Delaware and Hudson and the Western Maryland.  I would assume G&D 34 would weigh about the same, but would have two more axles to spread out its weight.  It would be a locomotive meant to run on relatively light rail compared with that of a contemporary (1920's era construction) front-line coal drag engine on the Reading, so the machine is not totally implausible.

You've mentioned that you are relatively young (21 or so), and I was wondering how you got interested in modeling steam and in the G&D.  The image us old fogies (I'm 54) are "supposed" to have of younger pups is that you are into computers, I-pods, ear-pods, etc., and other degenerate activities like bad music.  You don't seem to fit that bill--and for that matter, neither did I back in the 1970s!

[ryeguyisme]

Well #34 was a parts built engine, the cylinders and pilot wheels from a varney casey jones **and the drivers were Mantua 50" drivers, now finding a ten coupled mantua locomotive on Ebay is rather tough, and the spectrum decapod seems to fit the bill. I think to wait a number of years before I had most of the parts collected and then to be able to have it easily  put together with DCC AND Sound, makes it much more enjoyable to think about. This locomotive was something I studied since I first watched the VHS on John Allen's G&D featuring the only motion footage ever created of his layout. Seeing #34 in action is rather awe-inspiring at the age of 8


I guess it would've had to have started when I was at the ripe age of 4 or so, my Dad had been collecting the MDC G&D replicas ever since they came out(and by now it's a rather ridiculous stockpile of cars) and I just happen to play with some of his already built models and he used to get furious. I had also used to get into his book "Model Railroading with John Allen" and like I mentioned in another thread it was the only book of that age where I didn't put crayon drawings into, and I come to appreciate that now as the book is still altogether now 17 years later with all the pages together, however the binding disintegrated from years of use. My Dad has another copy locked away just for collectors purpose and thats in good condition.

But my inspiration was a rather rebellious one as I always used to sneak into the cars and the book and the locomotives at a certain point. I grew up not using Ready-to-Run locomotives, I grew up building MDC kits such as the Atlantic and 0-6-0 switcher, I even have an outside frame HOn3 2-8-0 of my father's and even to this day I'd rather buy a locomotive in kit form from the 40's 50's and 60's before I'd buy a RTR besides the ones with sounds or the ones that would fall victim to the kitbashing torch(which happens quite alot)

As I grew older my dad came to respect my creative and artistic nature and he used to brag to other modelers and general curious people that barely any of my locomotives ever survived their actual manufactured appearences as they mostly get modified quite heavily. I had a tendency to take locomotives apart and reassemble them to how I see fit.

I do collect  bachmann standard 2-8-0's(the pre-spectrum years) quite alot for their boiler shells and other parts despite the fact that the mechanism were rather flimsy. However the white encased pancake motor in the newer ones, was something to respect besides its outdated and rather noisy operation. When tweaked just right these models pulled the paint off the wall(with one traction tire and a kitbashed weighted 0-6-2t tender behind it) It was alot of fun at the age of 14-15 I'd say.


Now don't get me wrong I still listen to music that has the rent's running for the hills and go out and have my youthful fun but I am still very devoted to the hobby. And yes, alot of the older guys at my Model Railroad Club are kind of shocked that theres someone of my age that literally worships the G&D, they find it rather amusing and entertaining.

[ryeguyisme]

by the way, thank you for the N&W reference

[J3a-614]

You're quite welcome.

My own becoming a railfan and model enthusiast dates back to about your same age (4-5), growing up in a house in Wheeling, W.Va. adjacent to the B&O at the south end of the city.  The location was adjacent to an early intermodal facility (just "piggyback" then) which used "circus" loading (backing trailers onto a string of flats with an old tractor (trailer) unit).  I remember the beat-up tractor as lacking front fenders and headlights, only two axles (common then in the east).  The flat cars were a mixture of converted 40 and 50 footers and early long flats, all in either railroad markings or Trailer Train's early red scheme.  Steam was gone by then, power was F-units, GP7s and 9s, and EMD and Baldwin switchers (remembered mostly because they sounded different).  I do remember we still had a single passenger train running then (research indicates it was discontinued in 1960).  Color schemes for all of this was the classic B&O first generation blue and grey (F-units and the boiler-equipped GP7 on the passenger train) and blue with Roman lettering (freight GPs and switchers). 

My mother had spent part of her childhood in this same house (which predated the railroad in Wheeling by about 10 years, and never did have central heat), and she recalled when she was a girl that the piggyback yard had then been a stock yard, and she would look through holes in the fence at the cows--she was a great animal lover--and the cows looked back at her.  That was entertaining for her in the 1930s.

There were also old movies on the tube back in my own childhood, among them Cecil B. DeMille's "Union Pacific," "The Great Locomotive Chase" (on the Walt Disney program--this would be early 60's), and old silent stuff, like the Keystone Kops and Harold Lloyd comedies (Lloyd may well have been the greatest stunt man of all time--look him up if you aren't familiar with him, some of what he did was amazing.  Personal favorite, "Speedy," in which Lloyd has the last horsecar franchise in New York City, and he has to keep his car running in spite of efforts to cause him to loose the franchise.  Trolley routes were valuable then!)

What would one of my posts be without links?

My favorite road:

http://www.cohs.org/

Why we still like big steam, in this case on the N&W:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV8rA3UE-lc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF-6FKD0pr0

From Kalmbach's website for Classic Trains:

http://www.trains.com/ctr/default.aspx?c=a&id=607

http://www.trains.com/ctr/default.aspx?c=a&id=608

http://www.trains.com/ctr/default.aspx?c=ss&id=18

Enjoy.

[ryeguyisme]

If you look at the post in the General discussion under "for steam lovers", thers a good black and white movie called "Danger Lights" which maybe 80 years old but as a kid I loved it so much I used to play it over and over.

[ryeguyisme]

Speaking of more N&W a really really good movie is called October Sky, love that movie as well, it has Norfolk and Western steam in it.

[ryeguyisme]

okay just got the decapod in the mail and I'm breaking it in, however I don't like how the chuff is starting without any wheel rotation, or when I slow down the wheels stop but the chuff continues? I'm confused I hope this is all a part of breaking in the locomotive first or if it just needs an adjustment with CV's?

Here it is about 15 minutes out of the box:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs0pGw9u0rM

it also had part of the bottom frame not intact so I fixed that