Drive Belt under parts, universal?

[jonathan]

Just discovered the drive belt is frayed (almost broken) on one of my 2-8-0 Consolidations.  Not surprising since I run this loco constantly.

Discovered the bad belt when I heard a funny noise.  Hard to describe.  It was running a little louder than my other Connie. When I examined the belt, it looked as if the belt had a small cut, or split, like it was defective when assembled.  Loco is a few years old, so I'm not concerned about warranty for a 3-dollar part.

Under the parts section, the only drive belt listed is for the 2-10-0.  Is this the same belt as in all the steam locomotives?(#817XX-00036, 30 teeth)

I want to make sure I'm ordering the right part before submitting the order.

Thanks,

Jonathan

P.S. If my belt exchange goes well, I will post pics to help others in need of a new belt. jev

[jonathan]

Well...

Just got off the phone with the parts dept. 

I'm told the belts are not a universal part.

Apparently the only way to get the belt is to order the whole chassis assembly ($25 vice $3).

Really?

Gonna go home and count the teeth on the broken belt.  If there are 30 teeth like the decapod belt... you know what I'm thinking.

Regards,

Jonathan

[Steam is King]

I'm at a loss as to why Bachmann would make the industrial decision to have so many variances between models. I mean first it is the tender debacle, and now drive belts? I would think that having as many interchangeable, ie, universal parts as possible would lower production costs and keep inventory costs at a minimum. What good is a lifetime warranty if the parts aren't available anymore? I'm not bashing. I'm just raising the questions for good honest debate.

Jonathan, I would do the same thing you are. Hope it works out.

[jonathan]

Thanks, Steam.  

For now I will be patient.  If another solution presents itself, so much the better.

I can understand, from a design aspect, how certain parts cannot be universal.  Afterall, the sizes and shapes of locomotives require one to design things a little bit differently with each product, especially to maintain balance over the drivers.  What has me confused is having to buy an entire assembly to receive one part.  Obviously the belt is the weak link in the mechanism drive train (pun intended).  I would think there would be belts-a-plenty, stocked for such a need.  Talk about a money maker.  

I can order a 2-8-0 motor separately (doesn't come with a belt BTW).  I can order a pilot wheel, or the pilot truck assembly.  I can order a pc board, screws, lights or tender trucks... but not a drive belt?  The chassis will never break.  Likewise the motor will last forever, if I don't experiment with it.

If I'm left with no other option but to order the chassis assembly, I'll have to do it.  Just seems like a waste of parts and money to do it this way.

Regards,

Jonathan

Addendum:  Just found a few comments, from other forums, where the modelers claim to have replaced the 2-8-0 belt with the 2-10-0 belt.  Supposedly it works.

When I study the broken belt tonight, if it looks reasonably close, I'll try the same fix.  Fingers crossed...

[ABC]

What good is a lifetime warranty if the parts aren't available anymore? I'm not bashing. I'm just raising the questions for good honest debate.

The warranty isn't what it used to be, now it is more like a 1 year warranty. If you have your receipt and sent in the warranty card and if you bought from an authorized dealer and not some random guy on the internet or ebay then the locomotive will be replaced or repaired for free within a year of the purchase. After one year, you must pay for parts, repairs or replacement; it is $25 for each Spectrum HO or N scale locomotive.

[jonathan]

I found a picture Jim Banner had posted of the 2-8-0 motor and drive belt.  The belt has 30 teeth, just like the decapod.  By my feeble on-screen measurements, the two belts appear identical.

Thanks-a-million, Jim!

Now we're getting somewhere.

Regards,

Jonathan

Addendum:  Here's what the broken belt looks like (30 teeth ):



While I'm waiting for my experimental belts (ordered two), I'm giving my connie a B&O facial:

[RAM]

Jonathan, I know how you feel.  I had a broken gear and had to buy motor, belt and maybe other parts to get the gear.   One of my brother-in-law owned a store that sold a major brand of washing machines.  This company also made washing machines for Sear's.  Lets say the transmission broke on the Sears washer.  you had to replace the whole transmission because they did not handle small parts.  On the major brand you could get the small part and fix the transmission.  That is the way it is with Bachmann.  You can tie up a lot of space and money with an inventory of small parts.  Look at it this way.  You say the belt for the 2-10-0 cost $3.  OK lets say that the person filling the other is paid $20. an hour.  He gets your order goes back to the bin picks up the part.  then picks up an envelope and prints an address label.  It takes 15 minutes.  4 goes into 20 5 times.  So it cost Bachmann $5. to made a $3. sale.  Not a good way to stay in business.

[jonathan]

True, with the exception that there is a minimum $5 shipping charge on even the smallest of orders.  That should cover their shipping cost. Plus there has to be some small profit made by selling a small part.

I look at it like my car, instead of a washing machine.  I liken the drive belt to my car's fan belt.  It needs to be replaced every once in a while.  I don't need to buy a new engine when the serpentine belt wears out.

Just my take on it.

Regards,

Jonathan

Addendum:

Here are some progress pics while waiting on my belts:

The motor assembly:  notice the black stuff on the frame where the split belt was rubbing.  Also, Jim mentioned making wider bearings in a previous post.  There doesn't appear to be room.



The headlight is now mounted up high and working.  I cut the headlight lens in half and stuck the led in the back of the headlight.  Not exactly neat, but it works and looks good when it's moving--not a static model afterall...

[Jim Banner]

Also, Jim mentioned making wider bearings in a previous post.  There doesn't appear to be room.

I am used to specifying bearing and bushing sizes by inside diameter by outside diameter by width or id x od x w.  So, for example, a 16 x 32 x 6 millimeter bearing would be about 5/8" i.d., 1-1/4" o.d. and 1/4" wide.  Somethings I've seen bushing with the width larger than the o.d. specified as so many inches or millimeters long.  If you prefer the latter, then what I was making was longer bushings (and we will ignore the question of how it can be longer when the length of the original is smaller than the diameter and is therefore properly referred to as width.)

In the first of your excellent photographs, there is plenty of room to extend the left hand bushing from its present size to long (wide) enough to reach the left side of the worm and to extend the right hand bushing from its present size to wide (long) enough to reach cog wheel.  To keep the same o.d., it is necessary to remove a bit of the soft metal casting, but by the time I have to replace the bushings, the jack shaft has usually worn right through the old bushings and into the casting anyway.  It has often drilled through the ends of the pockets where the original bushing are located due to the worm putting axial loads on the jack shaft.  So running the bushing right up to the worm and the cog wheel also controls end play.  I usually put a flange on the side of the right hand bushing to help keep the belt centered on the cog wheel, just in case I don't get the jack shaft absolutely parallel to the motor shaft.  Once the new bushing are fitted, I usually epoxy them in place.  With the extra bearing surface provided by the increased width, I don't expect to ever replace them again.

This has worked well for me when refurbishing high mileage locomotives and the occasional locomotive with a casting flaw in the area where the original bushings are fitted.

Jim

[jonathan]

Thanks, Jim.  I did mean 'bushings' and 'length'.  I have been remodeling the master bath, and I think the fumes are getting to me.

While I think I could make the longer bushings from some small brass tubing, I'm afraid I don't have a precise enough tool (or skills) to grind out the casting.  Surely I would do more harm than good.  As the casting is in excellent shape, as well as, the shaft, bushings and gears, I think I'll leave this area alone.  However, since I have this area open, a little fresh lubricant would be a good thing.   

Regards,

Jonathan

[jonathan]

I am happy to report that the 2-10-0 Decapod drive belt is a match for the 2-8-0 Consolidation belt.

Here is the new belt alongside the faulty belt:





So, if anyone else has a drive belt issue, you can save a couple of bucks, getting the belt instead of the whole motor frame assembly. I got two just in case I have a future problem.

That little plastic piece above the worm was difficult to get into position so I could close up the assembly, after a little extra lube of course.





Haven't had a chance to run it yet, but the loco is back together, with her new B&O parts.  Gotta do a little extra work matching the finish on the brakeman's nest... Oh, and finish the neolube job on the smokebox/boiler front.




Regards,

Jonathan

[richg]

I would strongly suggest that people download the photos and maybe the complete web page. Store this page as an HTML document. That way when you click on the HTML file in your hard drive, this page will open up as we see it now. At least this has what I have been doing for a few years. Some sites do go away.
In this digital age, there is no good reason why you cannot store the data in your PC.
I also back up the hard drive data to an external drive or now, even Flash Drives.
This is a very interesting issue that others will be interested in.
You can also store the URL link in Favorites.
Maybe the complete project can be done as a PDF document. Many users do that which helps the model railroad community a lot.

Rich

[J3a-614]

Jon,

That work and the photos look good as always, wish I was that good at these things; may have to try it myself.  I've been reluctant to try things like this with the new ready-to-run stuff with its wonderful paint, for fear of messing up a nice model.  No such fear in those old kits, which you had to put together and paint anyway.

Again, congradulations. And it is amazing how the look and general character of a steam engine changes with things like a relocated headlight.

[jonathan]

Thanks Rich and J3a.

I wish I had Balt&OhioRRFan's painting talent.  Usually, I resort to dullcote to get everything to match.  I would prefer to find a paint that matches the paint job on the newer locomotives.  I understand the Pollyscale brands do a pretty good job.  Don't have access to them at my two LHS's.

Ran the loco this morning.  Runs great (smooth and quiet).  The headlight is much brighter.  Not sure about the yellow-orange LED that comes in all the current B'Mann locos.  Then I've never seen a real working steamer in action (born just a few years too late).  Perhaps this was the actual color of a steamer headlight.

BTW, I wouldn't have tried the modifications, except that I read a couple articles from B&O Modeler.  I figured if that guy could do it, so can I.

Regards,

Jonathan

[ebtnut]

Steam locos used incandescant light bulbs in the years after electification became common (from about WWI on), and they burn with a yellow glow.  Towards the very end, some roads (including the B&O) refitted their headlight casings to mount a pair of auto-style headlamps.  These are brighter than the convention bulbs, but still have a bit of a yellow cast, as can be notcied when driving at night and you see a car with high-intensity projector lamp headlights.  Some of the re-buit P-7's were equipped this way.

Before electicity became common, most headlights were lit with kerosene, which also burns with a yellow flame.  Some roads opted for using calcium carbide, the same material that was used in coal miner's headlamps.  Carbide looks like small white pebbles.  When you add water, though, the chemical reaction produces acetelyne gas, which burns with a hot, near-white flame.