Shell removal HELP!

[wobblinwheel]

Does anybody know the procedure for removing the boiler shell from a Spectrum N&W J class loco? I need to access the motor to see why it runs beautifully, but will suddenly drop to a crawl, runs very smoothly but with a faint motor "growl", but with slight "goose" of the throttle, it takes off and runs normally for an indefinite period of time. Also, when this happens, the headlamp flickers very slightly, but still runs smoothly, but VERY SLOW. Due to slightly excessive motor noise, I suspect armature bearings may need lube. Have removed every screw I can find, but shell won't budge! Any ideas??

[wobblinwheel]

Also, when this happens, SMALL increases in throttle have NO effect. You gotta rapidly goose the throttle to get it to run normally. Seems definitely electrical, not mechanical. Also, running only DC.

[skipgear]

The motor is burried in the split frame of the loco. You have to completely dissasemble the loco to even see the motor bearings.

It sounds like one of two problems.

One could be that the motor is just getting tired. It sounds like a motor that the commutator is clogged with carbon or the brushes are worn out. If you can blast it at full throttle for a while, it may burn the carbon out of the commutator. If that doesn't help, it is time for replacement. The carbon also builds up from over oiling. The oil leaches into the motor and gumms things up.

The other is a problem I fixed on a friends loco. There is an idler gear that is between the worm gear and the main geared driver that has too much side to side play. The idler gear can slip to one side far enough and the driver slips to the opposite side far enough that the gears dissengauge. This happens on loco's with a lot of runtime on them. It requires dissasembly and shimming of the gears.

[wobblinwheel]

This loco is only a little over a month old, and has relatively little run time. This problem did not exist at all until the last week. Ran great up until then. When it switches into "slow mode", it simply doesn't SOUND mechanical. No unusual noise, except a nearly inaudible growl, and runs perfectly. Best slow speed you ever saw, at HALF THROTTLE! Sounds like the old days when power packs had "pulse power" for slow speed.

[TJ]

wobblinwheel

   Out of curiosity did you think to look here?


http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/references_2010.php

or directly  http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/N821X-IS001.PDF

T.J

[kewatin]

If your loco is only a month old, why go thru the agony of problem solving hit or miss when you
can send it back for warranty claim repair or replacement,free of charge,plus shipping of course.
i have always been treated fairly and proffessionaly in any &all dealings.
regards&later  KEWATIN

[wobblinwheel]

Anybody got any idea why some of MY posts on this topic are MISSING??? Seriously, hasn't ANYBODY (successfully) removed the shell from this loco??? Once again, instruction/ parts breakdown doesn't help! And no, I don't want to send it back, as I've done just too much detail work on it.

[skipgear]

The parts explosion shows exactly what you need.....you just need to look at it carefully.

Remove the two screws under the cab, one on each side of the drawbar. Then the shell lifts up and foward to remove. Pretty simple actually.

[ALCO539]

I have had motor slow down happen on several Bachmann locomotives, with the small can motor. One responded to cleaning with CRC electronic cleaner, injected with a syringe and then a "high speed blow out". As has been suggested.
However, a recent purchase was made worse by doing this. I didn't want to do it, but I pressed the flywheels off and opened the motor up. No brush/oil deposits were found, but I did have a winding with one coil pinched under the thrust washer on the motor shaft, opposite the brush end. It was close enough to the motor shaft, that under load it would "ground" to the the motor shaft. The armmature was tested with a VOM for grounds, shorts and open coils, but tested OK. Why? No pressure on the thrust bearing when not installed. The engine didn't fail in one direction, which makes sense, because the armmature moves against it's thrust bearings depending on the direction of rotation.

If you have a ammeter on your layout (if running DC) you'll see the currect draw go up when the loco slows down, mine went from 0.2 A to 0.4 A.
Once put back together, the motor runs very good now and draws 0.1 A. I think the motor winding machines are a bit "sloppy" and the QC maybe lacking too. If I were you, I would contact Bachmann and get a new motor or loco. Charley.

[wobblinwheel]

Skipgear, I removed the two screws under the cab, and tried to lift. while doing so, the "floor" of the cab tried to move with it, almost as if glued in place. After some serious pulling-up on the cab, I realized it wasn't going to happen. The front of the boiler is loose, moves up and down a little (as if in a "notch"), but the REAR of the boiler/cab is held firm, with screws removed. Tender drawbar removed, rear truck removed, no more screws to take out, that I can see! Maybe if I pull HARD ENOUGH, and something breaks, I'll at least find out what was holding it! Simple motor and worm lubrication should NOT be this difficult!! And yes, when the motor slows, the amp draw is tremendous, sometimes tripping circuit breaker in power pack, if I don't "goose" the throttle to get it back to speed! I'm also worried about those odd wires running to the tender that the "black color" is rubbing off of, exposing what appears to be BARE WIRE? Could that not be a PROBLEM?? Why no "real" insulation?

[skipgear]

No real insulation because the wires are more flexible with just the laquer coating.

The floor of the cab should come with it. It is part of the boiler.

Here is a picture with the boiler off....

http://www.spookshow.net/files/bachjmech2.jpg

[wobblinwheel]

Thanks for the picture! It appears that maybe I have to pull BACK on the bottom rear of the cab to make it unlatch, and then lift up? Also, can I lube the motor and worm gear without separating the frame halves? I have found that a teeny bit of Labelle (thick, but liquid) gear lube really works well on the armature bearings. You should hear the difference it made on my Spectrum 2-8-0! By the way, the motor on this J is quite noisy compared to the other one I have.

[RGW]

I had  a similar problem after removing the shell (see post ,another J question)it was a intermittent shorting of the wires which had cracked the varnish and frayed.when I dissembled the engine and separated the wires on the test bench it ran fine.

[wobblinwheel]

Unable to remove the boiler shell, I decided to remove the tender shell and inspect the wiring. WOW! Each wire looked like a "brass paint brush" where it was soldered to the (gizmo they were soldered to). Clearly a case of possible shorts! Since all six appeared to be soldered (but very frayed, with stray strands everywhere), I decided to just coat the wires at the joints with thin Super Glue. Before glue dried, I tucked in all the stray wires where they belonged. The glue held them firm, and kept the wires apart. Then I gobbed some clear silicone over the solder joints for good measure. I then painted each wire from tender to cab with flat black paint. So far, so good! No apparent motor problems! (I'm keeping my fingers crossed) Obviously ****-poor soldering, and sub-standard wire! If I can ever get the shell off, it would be my intention to replace all six of these wires with decent (properly insulated) wires.....

[wobblinwheel]

Well, everything seemed to work for the longest time, but last night, when I tried to BACK into a siding, the motor started acting up again. Seems that "backing up" initiated the problem! Do we still think it's the MOTOR? No amount of "fiddling" withe the tender wires seems to matter. My next move was to run the loco at high speeds in REVERSE for an extended period of time. After bucking & jerking for a while, it began to clear up, and now it's running normally again. What gives??