Shell removal HELP!

wobblinwheel · April 27, 2013, 12:51:12 AM

Ran it again tonight for about an hour or so, with no problems. The motor is getting noisier now. Still think some lube on the armature bearings might help. Ideas?

skipgear · April 27, 2013, 08:17:03 AM

Lube on the motor bearings is more than likely what caused all this in the first place. The oil leaches onto the armature, then the brushes and causes them to gum up, filling in the slots in the comutator causing the problems you are seeing.

The easiest fix is crank up the throttle and let the loco run at full throttle with no load. This will burn out the crud in the commutator slots in most cases.

wobblinwheel · April 30, 2013, 01:56:22 PM

Well, the J has finally CRAPPED OUT! While backing up (as usual) the loco again switched into the "slow mode" and after "goosing" the throttle, it began running normally, for a while. Then she stopped. After a few of the usual throttle spikes, I noticed SMOKE coming from the TENDER. After removing the shell from the tender, I saw the two "coils?" at the very front of the circuit board were black and burned up. Does anyone know what those two copper wire-wound coils do? They seem to be wired directly to the power feed from the tender wheels, on the red (positive?) side. Could this indicate the problem was on the board?? Nothing on the tender wires seemed to have gotten hot, nor the plug or socket. Also, any ideas which two, of the six wires on the plug supply voltage only to the MOTOR? I need to test the motor, to see if it's ok. Ideas?

wobblinwheel · April 30, 2013, 02:19:12 PM

WOW! I just noticed that Bachmann has "sold out" of the the circuit boards! Both the tender board AND the loco board (the one with the wiring harness attached). You suppose they've been having PROBLEMS?? Obviously, if I send it back, I WON'T be getting MY LOCO back, and I can't get the parts to fix it. Looks like a real "Catch 22" to me! Guess I'll be calling the Service Dept. to see what they can do.....

ALCO539 · April 30, 2013, 02:58:35 PM

Those are RF chokes which are used to suppress interference (static) on radio and television signals. Did you get a yellow page with the locomotive, "Important Notice" at the top? It describes what they're for, along with a few capacitors.

They're not necessary to make the engine run, and may cause trouble with non-NMRA DCC decoders. They can be removed. The yellow page tells you to go to a web page to remove them. I've never been there, but this is it, www.bachmanntrains.com (this site, actually), if you don't have the yellow page. Then go to E-Z Command FAQ. I hope it tells you what to do to remove them and rewire the board.

However, if the motor drew enough current to "smoke" them it may be toast too. I think you have a grounded coil on that motor (intermitten), as I described in my first post of this thread. If you can rewire the board and the motor is OK, it may not be for long. The chokes protected the motor, but if you remove them, well your "up the creek" if overloaded again. Send it back if possible or at least give Bachmann a call. It may be too late, since you've worked on it, but they can see on this board how hard you tried to live with the problem, and may give you a break.
Regards Charley

wobblinwheel · April 30, 2013, 04:28:48 PM

Charley, do you know the best way I can test the motor? Should the loco run without the tender [board] attached, or do I jump some pins in the plug to complete the circuit? OR can I apply track voltage to two of the (six) wires on the plug to make it run? WITHOUT blowing the headlamp? I have to say, the wiring on this plug is a MESS!

RGW · April 30, 2013, 05:45:54 PM

I can check my tender.I did rewire mine and I think I might have removed some tender guts,But not sure.Can't check tonight ,but I will tomorrow.

Bob

ALCO539 · April 30, 2013, 07:35:36 PM

According to the DCC wiring diagram that's on the parts diagram for the N&W J, leads 1 (orange) and 5 (grey) should be the motor leads. The pin-outs on the PCB are numbered left to right 8124567, no #3. I think that the colors and numbers are NMRA standards, but others that use DCC can verify that. See if you have that diagram, lots of info there. You should be able to "jumper" the motor leads to your DC power supply and test it. That is, unless the RF chokes have shorted the PCB. You may have to unsolder or cut the leads to isolate the motor from the PCB. I haven't been in that tender, YET! The line drawing should be accurate, it is, on other Bachmann tenders that I've looked into. Although, I remember reading on one of the forums, that one of Bachmann's diagrams is "off" regarding the DCC wiring. Sorry, I don't know which.

RGW may have the rewire you need to get the loco moving again, but if you are still drawing high current, the motor's in-trouble and may fail completely. The only way to test the motor armmature is to take the motor apart. That is not for the novice, but that's how I learned to do it. However, when I started an Atlas 2-8-2 cost $28 (still a lot of money in 1970), not $100-200-300 etc, like loco's cost today. I hope this helps.

Regards Charley.

wobblinwheel · April 30, 2013, 10:12:51 PM

Charley, I found the info on the removal of the "inductors" (chokes) and capacitors on the "faq" section of DCC section on this site. It shows clear photos of the chokes, but the arrow pointing to the caps is "cut off" from view. Can't even tell what they look like. Says if I remove chokes, I must replace with a jumper. Says I can cut out the caps with no problem, if I knew where they were! I don't see anything on the board that even resembles what I thought capacitors look like. I do see little teeny gray square things labeled "C1, C2, C3". One is much smaller than the other two. I think I could fix this thing if I had a proper SCHEMATIC, and not just DCC wiring diagram. For some reason, I still think the motor is ok. It just ran SO WELL, and drew so little amperage when running normally. I've still never gotten the shell off, but while the tender got really hot, the top of the loco was not even warm. From what I've seen, just removing the motor is a real SOB! I have no problem working on the motor. Done 'em before. Wonder if those little wires in a phone cord would work as a replacement for these crappy ones?

RGW · April 30, 2013, 11:19:56 PM

I believe a person could remove the printed circuit board from the tender and connect the wires right from the brass strips that contact the wheel pick ups. Then remove the connector on the engine and wire it direct. You also could run wires from the tender leads threw a resister for the head light( 4 wires between engine and tender) this part could be savaged from a diesel engine.
I do not think directional lighting is important ,who runs J in reverse.
Just my thoughts, other people may have a better one.

RGW

wobblinwheel · April 30, 2013, 11:42:45 PM

I'm not worried about a backup light either. Aux. tender already has one. Wonder what size resistor would work? I also don't care if the headlight stays on in reverse, either. Looks like I should be able to run headlamp wires directly to frame halves, or motor leads, install proper resistor, and then only need two wires to tender for power pickup. Two MUCH BETTER wires! I do still like the headlamp coming on at very slow speeds (as it does now, or DID). I wonder if a resistor would prevent that?

wobblinwheel · April 30, 2013, 11:56:44 PM

I called Bachmann service today. Very "robotic" response: "send it in". Really wanted to talk to someone who actually WORKS on these things, somebody who KNOWS SOMETHING! I don't need to tell you how THAT worked out!! I'm beginning to think you guys on this forum are my only hope! $45 for "inspection, and it's only a month old.......$70 from Trainworld, and I'll have all the parts I need, I guess.

RGW · April 30, 2013, 11:57:55 PM

For the resister you could use the circuit board from some diesel engine just cut off the led light and connect the light wires to it and then connect the power. I do not think there is room in the engine for a resister,so you would still need 4 wires from the engine to tender

RGW · May 01, 2013, 12:02:56 AM

when you call Bachmann ask to talk with the repair Department, explain that you have a technical question.I have found them to be helpful in the past.

wobblinwheel · May 01, 2013, 12:20:20 AM

I did speak to repair dept. Got a woman who said "send it in", and since I may have "abused" it, it would cost $45 for inspection, repair, or replacement. As I've converted this one to a "freight" version, with doghouse and weathering, I'm not sending it in.I can fix this thing if I had the right parts. Parts Online is out of stock, was hoping repair dept had them. Once again, had no luck with that one. She did transfer me to Parts, but all I got was a recording.

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Shell removal HELP!