Night Lights

[jbrock27]

They were commonly referred to as "smudge pots".

[Doneldon]

The biggest Issue, I would think, is how to get it to turn when the switch is thrown, that,I have no idea how to do.

Irbrick-

I'm not so sure that actually moving the lantern can be done in a scale as small as HO, particularly if the expectation is that the mechanism will operate long-term without frequent maintenance or rebuilding. It would even be a challenge in O or large scale. But there is a good alternative: changing the color of the light, not the position of the marker.

Enlarge the inside of the lantern as much as possible. Then put a thin piece of brass diagonally across the lantern. Using two bi-color LEDs, cross wired with the switch machine outputs, run two fine light cables into each half of the lantern cavity. This will let the different sides of the lantern alternately show red or green. If the light carrying fibers are painted black so light only escapes from the part of the cable next to the lantern's lenses, you can keep the whole lantern from glowing when illuminating. This would likely be necessary since the lantern walls will be very thin after their cavities are enlarged.
                                                                                                                                                       -- D

[CNE Runner]

Les, when I was a young college student I worked for the Dutchess County (NY) Highway Department each summer. [Of course that was 'way before I retired to Alabama and became a 'recovering yankee'.] Anyway, a rainy day job (better known as busy work) was to go out to the Lamp House and fill the seemingly endless number of warning lamps...or 'pots' as we called them. One had to check the condition (and length) of the wick as well as filling up the reservoir. We had a large, rotary hand-pumped tank filled with kerosene...which was dispensed into spouted cans (much like the oil cans one sees used for lubricating steam locomotives). I can tell you, from personal experience, this was a very dirty (soot) and very smelly job.

JBrock, My father was an apple farmer during the late 1940s through the early 1960s. We used 'smudge pots' on those early spring nights when the temperatures would get low enough to possibly damage the apple blossoms. Smudge pots (or at least agricultural ones) were much larger than the highway warning 'pots' - and held more kerosene as the flame was much larger. It was beautiful (to a kid) to see all those twinkling lights in the orchards at night. My father watched his meager profit go up in smoke (and flame).

Jon - I turn 70 this coming February and I feel your pain. I am having more and more trouble seeing those tiny screws and detail pieces. That is one reason why the rebuilt Monks Island Railway (or as I like to put it: M.I.Ry 2.0) will be my last layout. I want this edition to be a defining moment in my 55+ year involvement in the hobby...it has been a great run though.

Cheers,
Ray

[Doneldon]

Ray-

We had some friends/shirttail relatives years ago who owned an orange orchard in the San Gabriel Valley, about 25 east of L.A. They used smudge pots on cold, windless nights. The choking guck would lay over the orchards (these were BIG trees) like a blanket and let the ground heat protect the blooms and fruit, depending on the time of year. If the wind was blowing, they climbed their windmill and connected their hose to a water cannon on top. Then they sprayed the whole orchard. The water was warmer than freezing, to begin with, and it would protect the fruit if it froze because the inside of the ice cocoon was no lower than 32^o which wouldn't harm the fruit. I don't recall if they could spray in the early spring to protect the flowers but I know they sprayed to protect flower buds and the tiny oranges which began developing as soon as the gametes got together.

Lots of people don't believe these stories, especially that they occurred in Southern California. But I saw these things for myself as a youngster. We lived just a few miles from them for a couple of years so I had an opportunity to see how they managed their orchard year 'round, not just when we were there for the summer. Actually, they had moved to the City of Industry by the second time we lived out there, but they had a lemon grove at that property which had smudge pots and the water cannon.

What do you suppose the EPA would say about those smudge pots today?
                                                                                                                -- D

[jbrock27]

Ray, I did not know you were a recovering NYer?!
The very first time I glimpsed a smudge pot was when we lived in Brooklyn.  It warned of some huge pot hole in the road/street.  If I remember right, the hole was big and deep enough to swallow a Volkswagon Beetle.

You bring up a good point about the EPA Doc.  Do you think that might be why we don't see them anymore, or due to a matter of practicality?

[rogertra]

Ray, I did not know you were a recovering NYer?!
The very first time I glimpsed a smudge pot was when we lived in Brooklyn.  It warned of some huge pot hole in the road/street.  If I remember right, the hole was big and deep enough to swallow a Volkswagon Beetle.

You bring up a good point about the EPA Doc.  Do you think that might be why we don't see them anymore, or due to a matter of practicality?

We don't see them any more because they've been replaced by flashing battery powered lights, some with solar panels attached, that are less maintenance as they turn themselves on and off automatically via light sensors and are far easier to see at night.

Cheers.

Roger T.

[Irbricksceo]

Funny that you mention them In Brooklyn, when we lived in New Jersey five years ago, I visited a small junk shop over in Hackensack, There was all kinds of old Railroad Equipment that had wound up there, one item, as I recall, was an old lantern similar to what you are talking about.

The Railroads in the Northeast always impressed me (hence why I model the tristate) And the sheer scale of Hoboken Terminal, not to mention the old tracks of the Erie Lackawanna from when it was at it's peak, really do go though some scenic areas!

Sorry, Got on a tangent there, but It's true, a few of those lanterns do float around, though obviously long since removed from service. Interestingly, We've also found those old green glass telegraph pole covers and of course spike that were just lying at the side of the tracks. It's amazing what kind of Railroad Equipment is out there!

[jbrock27]

Thanks Roger. Sounds like practicality won out.

Brick, I used to spend a good deal of time in Hackensack bc of family there.  So it is quite likely I saw the smudge pots in action there as well, probably marking flooded streets/roads.

[electrical whiz kid]

One thing I had said had referred to jewels at the head.  Optic fibres are designed to conduct light.  What this means is that if you hollow out the head of a switch stand enough (carefully...) you could conceivably insert two different coloured jewels, negating the need for wiring (one conductor-foc) conductors or LEDs at the top.  If you can generate enough light at the other (feed) end (presumably under the layout), then the  photonic impulses will carry up the fibre to the end (which has been processed to gather and concentrate the light-this is done by "bulbing"-heating the fibre and then polishing the head)  I guess from here most of you can get where this goes.  I think it is an excellent thought and sometime in the not-too-distant future...  I watched them insert two stents into two arteries via my wrist not too long ago... 
Rich C.

[Jhanecker2]

I remember seeing those smudge pots in use back in the  1950 's  and  1960 's  .   I doubt the  EPA would allow their use today and do remember that  they had been known to explode from time to time . With the current legal  climate  and the amount of  distracted drivers on the road an open flame anywhere near  a road surface is an open invitation to endless litigation .  The battery operated devices with light sensors  are a lot safer and more  noticeable .   John2.

[jward]

getting back to the switchstands, the kerosene ones were modified or replaced by battery powered ones, which were later themselves replaced by reflectorized targets. why? i suspect maintenance costs were more of a factor than the epa. as i recall on the b&o they were all battery powered in my area by the 1970s, so they were probably repaced  before the epa. changing out batteries, while still labour intensive, would have been alot less costly and time consuming than running around filling and lighting lanterns. another factor may have been heat affecting the lenses. i suspect the heat would have made the lenses much more prone to cracking, a problem switching to low wattage light bulbs would have minimized. as i recall, signal bulbs were less than 10 watts, not alot of heat generated with those.

[CNE Runner]

What seems like a million years ago, I (and my good friend at the time) used to hang out at the Hopewell Junction, NY yards [New Haven owned] while my dad earned a couple of bucks unloading lumber from rail cars. We became very familiar with those old kerosene-burning signal lamps as we used to follow the guy refilling them. He was a really nice fellow - and would often let us refill the reservoirs...while he took a smoke break (this guy was no dummy). Anyway, the glass inserts (bulls eyes) were made of very thick glass in a Fresnel lens type of pattern ('could be wrong, but I remember green and yellow lenses).

One day our railroad 'buddy' was accompanied by several other workmen - who were in the process of replacing those old lanterns with reflecting indicators. Knowing how we loved to 'help' fill those old lanterns, he took us to their truck and gave us one! I had that lantern hanging in my bedroom for years...I wonder what ever happened to it?

I have been putting some thought to illuminating an HO switch stand lamp (when you are retired there is a lot of time for thinkin'). [For the purposes of this discussion, I am referring to a 'low boy' lamp and not the high ones.] I think I would opt to hollow out the lamp base and attach it to some fine brass tubing (very small diameter). Using magnet wire, I would run a wire to a bi-colored LED. Yes, all faces of the lamp would show green or red (or whatever), but that is about as close to protypical as one can get. Of course Lionel solved the problem years ago with their #022 illuminated switches. Do you remember how hot those little signal lamps became?

Ray

PS: How do you northern retired guys afford the taxes? We own a 2,400 sq. fit home (birck) on ~ 1 acre with full city services. Our total tax bill is $460/year. Y'all must know something I don't.

[jbrock27]

Ugh, taxes!  Don't get me started.  Don't know anyone who likes paying taxes.  I am envious.  Don't know what we all know that y'all don't, except for the hopeful consolation of higher taxes translating to better services, infrastructure and school systems.

Re: Lionel #022 illuminated switches, I am not familiar with them, only having 1 Lionel item: an HO triple dome tank car.

[J3a-614]

As I noted, there are commercial switch stands with rotating targets by other companies, mostly small ones that specialize in detail parts.  Here is what Walthers has listed, both operating and non-operating.:

http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?category=Track&scale=H&manu=&item=&keywords=Switch+stand&words=restrict&instock=Q&split=30&Submit=Search

One thing that stands out about these things is that they will be rather fragile.  I don't think you would want to use the normal twin-coil solenoid switch machine (i.e., Bachmann or Atlas) with one of these!  At the same time, powered switches in the prototype world rarely had lights on them; they were usually part of an interlocking plant, and the trackside signals would rule in that application.

Switches with lamps and targets like this would be in the realm of hand-thrown iron, not normally on a heavily trafficked main line, except perhaps leading to a spur.

Some prototype switch lamps.

http://www.brasstrains.com/classic/Product/Detail/048376/Switch-Stand-Lamp-Handlan-Kerosene

http://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/043411/Switch-Stand-Lantern-Handlan-Electrified

Here's what one fellow did in O scale; could this be matched in HO, in effect if not technique?

http://oscalemag.com/wordpress/working-lighted-switch-stands/

A thought--I have a feeling these lamps shouldn't be too bright.  They are only using a kerosene flame for illumination.  In that respect, along with an economy in bulbs, I think the fibre optic light tube would be a good application to light a switch stand in HO.

[jonathan]

Coal Mine:

Pay not attention to any cobwebs that may appear. 














Regards,

Jonathan