DM&IR Yellowstone

[ACY]

If the Bachmann makes a DM&IR M-3 or M-4, I'd be willing to purchase a couple, the EM-1 doesn't fit any of my needs, and I was really surprised they came out with an EM-1 instead of the sought after DM&IR yellowstones

Maybe they are sought after by you and folks by where you live but the B&O is a roadname that sells a lot more than the DM&IR. You may think a lot of people would by them but the fact of the matter is that a great deal of research is done to evaluate what products are most likely to sell a sufficient quantity to be both worthwhile and profitable.

For instance Bachmann generally does not make very many undecorated locomotives anymore because they have found that sales are not sufficient to justify the production of undecorated models anymore. Most people want Ready-to-Run in this day and age so that is what they make, even if you and those at your club or locality would buy something doesn't mean the majority would do so.

In fact, I am sorry to say that your statement that is insinuating the DM&IR M-3's or M-4's would be more profitable than the B&O EM-1's is not accurate. Marketing research completed by several manufacturers has shown the B&O name alone to influence greater sales of the models regardless of the particular model. This is linked to the fact that there are many more fans of the B&O than the DM&IR just because the B&O was a larger railroad and operated in areas with a larger population as opposed to the DM&IR which operated mainly in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Although there are a few large cities in those two states, and many people from that locale are fans of the DM&IR, it is nothing compared to the sheer number of fans the B&O has. The B&O operated in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Maryland, Virginia, Delaware, New Jersey and New York. So if you combine all the B&O fans from 10 different states in addition to any other fans it may have from elsewhere, there would be a much larger number than the DM&IR which was a more regional railroad which limited it's fan base. Even though there are a lot more B&O models made, it wouldn't have much of a negative impact on EM-1 sales, sales figures have supported this even though one might think it might make an impact.

At the end of the day, even though it isn't what you want to hear,  there is a much greater demand for a B&O EM-1 in the United States as a whole than a DM&IR M-3 or M-4. In Wisconsin and Minnesota I am sure many people would want a M-3 or M-4 but it isn't nearly enough to justify Bachmann to produce the model since Bachmann produces their models in large quantities to facilitate their lower price points which is a main selling point for their products. If Bachmann were to produce the model you seek, most people would not buy one because the price point would be double or triple that of the EM-1 since they would not be able to sell as many and therefore produce as many. So that puts you in the category of being better off buying a brass model if you really want the model or pitching the model to another company who makes smaller runs (but also is more expensive).

[GN.2-6-8-0]

Spoken like a true B&0 fan

[ACY]

Spoken like a true B&0 fan

Actually I am not much of a B&O fan, I only own a few B&O locomotives but the EM-1 is one of them. I bought it just because I like articulated steam. I also have two Southern Pacific Cab Forward 4-8-8-2's,a Union Pacific Big Boy 4-8-8-4, and a C&O H-4 2-6-6-2 in addition to my B&O EM-1. My favorite railroad has always been Santa Fe.

[Jhanecker2]

I suspect with the oncoming  of 3D printing that  making smaller amounts of diverse models could become a reality . When  metal molds  are no longer necessary and computer files are used to create parts instead , costs could come way down.  Micro-Mark 's  current catalog  has a 3-D printer for sale on its cover,  eventually  larger printers could  be manufactured. John2.

[MilwaukeeRoadfan261]

If the Bachmann makes a DM&IR M-3 or M-4, I'd be willing to purchase a couple, the EM-1 doesn't fit any of my needs, and I was really surprised they came out with an EM-1 instead of the sought after DM&IR yellowstones

Maybe they are sought after by you and folks by where you live but the B&O is a roadname that sells a lot more than the DM&IR. You may think a lot of people would by them but the fact of the matter is that a great deal of research is done to evaluate what products are most likely to sell a sufficient quantity to be both worthwhile and profitable.

For instance Bachmann generally does not make very many undecorated locomotives anymore because they have found that sales are not sufficient to justify the production of undecorated models anymore. Most people want Ready-to-Run in this day and age so that is what they make, even if you and those at your club or locality would buy something doesn't mean the majority would do so.

In fact, I am sorry to say that your statement that is insinuating the DM&IR M-3's or M-4's would be more profitable than the B&O EM-1's is not accurate. Marketing research completed by several manufacturers has shown the B&O name alone to influence greater sales of the models regardless of the particular model. This is linked to the fact that there are many more fans of the B&O than the DM&IR just because the B&O was a larger railroad and operated in areas with a larger population as opposed to the DM&IR which operated mainly in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Although there are a few large cities in those two states, and many people from that locale are fans of the DM&IR, it is nothing compared to the sheer number of fans the B&O has. The B&O operated in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Maryland, Virginia, Delaware, New Jersey and New York. So if you combine all the B&O fans from 10 different states in addition to any other fans it may have from elsewhere, there would be a much larger number than the DM&IR which was a more regional railroad which limited it's fan base. Even though there are a lot more B&O models made, it wouldn't have much of a negative impact on EM-1 sales, sales figures have supported this even though one might think it might make an impact.

At the end of the day, even though it isn't what you want to hear,  there is a much greater demand for a B&O EM-1 in the United States as a whole than a DM&IR M-3 or M-4. In Wisconsin and Minnesota I am sure many people would want a M-3 or M-4 but it isn't nearly enough to justify Bachmann to produce the model since Bachmann produces their models in large quantities to facilitate their lower price points which is a main selling point for their products. If Bachmann were to produce the model you seek, most people would not buy one because the price point would be double or triple that of the EM-1 since they would not be able to sell as many and therefore produce as many. So that puts you in the category of being better off buying a brass model if you really want the model or pitching the model to another company who makes smaller runs (but also is more expensive).

If what you say is true, then why are there not more Great Northern, Northern Pacific, CB&Q, Milwaukee Road, Soo Line, C&NW (the goes on for quite some time more but I will cut it short there) steam and diesel locomotives on the market? Those lines operated on just as much track (or slightly more when you figure in smaller railroads that operated under the owner ship of the bigger railroads I listed as well as branchlines) and in a similarly sized geographical area as the B&O or the other big six railroads back then and yet those lines hardly get any attention by ALL of affordable model train makers (Bachmann, Athearn, Walthers, Atlas, MTH) and are only seen as hard to find, expensive brass models that aren't ready to run or even DCC ready.

[Doneldon]

If the Bachmann makes a DM&IR M-3 or M-4, I'd be willing to purchase a couple, the EM-1 doesn't fit any of my needs, and I was really surprised they came out with an EM-1 instead of the sought after DM&IR yellowstones

Rye-

LOTS more people live near where the B&O operated than the DM&IR.

                                                                                              -- D

[ACY]

If what you say is true, then why are there not more Great Northern, Northern Pacific, CB&Q, Milwaukee Road, Soo Line, C&NW (the goes on for quite some time more but I will cut it short there) steam and diesel locomotives on the market? Those lines operated on just as much track (or slightly more when you figure in smaller railroads that operated under the owner ship of the bigger railroads I listed as well as branchlines) and in a similarly sized geographical area as the B&O or the other big six railroads back then and yet those lines hardly get any attention by ALL of affordable model train makers (Bachmann, Athearn, Walthers, Atlas, MTH) and are only seen as hard to find, expensive brass models that aren't ready to run or even DCC ready.

It has almost nothing to do with the amount of track the railroad operated on, rather just the proximity of where they operate relative to the two largest cities in the US.
It makes sense that the roads that operated around New York City and Los Angeles will have the most model produced since the greatest amount of the US population is in those two cities and therefore that is the largest percentage of the market.

The Great Northern operated from Seattle to Chicago, however any roads that operate mainly in the Northwestern US will not be as greatly produced because the Northwestern US is much more sparsely populated than the Northeast to the Eastern Midwest (roughly as far East as Ohio) or Southern California. The Northern Pacific ran from Seattle to Saint Paul and because they didn't run to Chicago they lost a large market of potential fans. The CB&Q operated primarily in rural and mountainous areas and didn't connect with many large (comparatively) cities aside from Chicago. The Milwaukee Road also operated from roughly Seattle to Chicago but primarily operated in sparsely populated areas. The SOO didn't even run to Seattle and had very few large cities as well. The Chicago and North Western was much like the SOO with very few large cities.  Of the ones you mentioned the CB&Q is probably likely to have the most models produced because they ran through the most large cities.

New York City and Los Angeles each have a population of 20 million people roughly in their Metro areas. By comparison the largest cities that were serviced by the road you mentioned have the following populations:
Chicago 2 million
Seattle 700,000
Milwaukee 600,000
Denver 500,000
Portland 500,000
Minneapolis 300,000
Saint Paul 200,000

So if you add up all the people from all the cities that were serviced by the railroad you mentioned you get roughly 4 million people on average. If they did not run to Chicago then that is 2 million less people. The B&O has 20 million people from New York City alone, and then you add in at least 10 million more from the rest of the cities it serviced. And you have a minimum of 30 million people who live where the B&O operated compared to a max of 5 million people where all the roads you mentioned operated. So there is at least 6 times as many B&O fans compared to any of the roads you mentioned assuming the same percentage of people are railfans across the USA.

Simply put most railroads that did not operate near New York City or Los Angeles will not be produced in as great of numbers as those who did. So any rail roads in the Northwest, Western Midwest, Southwest but not southern California, Southeast or Canada/Mexico will probably have less produced just due to there being less demand.

[ryeguyisme]

I just tend to lurk a TON of online forums on model steam and I just more gripe for DM&IR M's than ever hearing anything to do with EM-1's, but that's just me. The other part of me is like  "YEAH, I want one of those(but don't like it's B&O counterpart as much as that DM&IR prototype)" Plus the DM&IR had a lot of trackage too, they were borrowed in WWII by the D&RGW to aide in the demanding war traffic.

I'm from the east and prefer rugged western mountain conqueror D&RGW steam locomotives  

Why not the non-Alco pacific northwest challengers?

Why not Harriman Mikados and pacifics?

Why not non-USRA generic designs one can modify from?

All I can say for me as an enthusiastic model steam locomotive modeller I cannot wait for the fruits of the future because there's still a lot more new products to come

[Doneldon]

ACY-

Actually, the amount of track on which a railroad operated has a LOT to do with how many fans a given railroad has because it correlates highly with the number of people who were/are exposed to that railroad's activities. Now I'm not saying that the correlation is 1:1 but it is very high. Also, you must remember that long-haul railroads didn't/don't operate between Podunk and West Stopsign; they operate between large cities. It's just that some of the large, anchoring cities were far apart. That's why lines like the GN or NP are as popular as they are. It's not because they ran through North Dakota and Montana; it's because they ran between Chicago, Milwaukee, the Twin Cities and Seattle or Portland.

Identifying New York and Los Angeles as the two U.S. railroad giants is simply wrong, especially so if you are looking at railroading in the past which is what we all model. (Some model the very recent past, others the more distant past, but, by definition, we have no prototypes of the future to model.) You are ignoring Chicago which had far more railroads than NYC or LA and was/is the country's leading rail hub. Other than the SP and a couple of dedicated Deep South railroads, every line of any consequence went into or, in a very few cases, through Chicago. And I dare say that St. Louis and Kansas City had more lines than Los Angeles.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                               -- D

[ACY]

ACY-

Actually, the amount of track on which a railroad operated has a LOT to do with how many fans a given railroad has because it correlates highly with the number of people who were/are exposed to that railroad's activities. Now I'm not saying that the correlation is 1:1 but it is very high. Also, you must remember that long-haul railroads didn't/don't operate between Podunk and West Stopsign; they operate between large cities. It's just that some of the large, anchoring cities were far apart. That's why lines like the GN or NP are as popular as they are. It's not because they ran through North Dakota and Montana; it's because they ran between Chicago, Milwaukee, the Twin Cities and Seattle or Portland.

Identifying New York and Los Angeles as the two U.S. railroad giants is simply wrong, especially so if you are looking at railroading in the past which is what we all model. (Some model the very recent past, others the more distant past, but, by definition, we have no prototypes of the future to model.) You are ignoring Chicago which had far more railroads than NYC or LA and was/is the country's leading rail hub. Other than the SP and a couple of dedicated Deep South railroads, every line of any consequence went into or, in a very few cases, through Chicago. And I dare say that St. Louis and Kansas City had more lines than Los Angeles.

Let me see if I can rephrase this more clearly. The amount of railroads operating in Chicago does not change the fact that the population of New York City and LA are 10 times larger. I never said either city had more railroads or trains operating. I am just saying that if you operate in NYC or LA, your railroad will be exposed to more people just because of the huge populations. Also a railroad could in theory have a million miles of track but not connect with very many large cities and another railroad could run only from NYC to Baltimore. Yet the latter would likely have more fans just because there is the potential of up to roughly 21 million people being fans compared to say a max of 1 or 2 million for the railroad operating through thousands of miles of desert or farm land or whatever the case may be where there will be far less fewer people that could be fans.

In the case of the Northwestern railroads specifically there is not many cities on the scale of NYC or LA aside from Chicago which is still 10 times smaller. Every other city has roughly 500,000 or less, with many only being 100,000 or less. Operating through cities of 100,000 people or less is negligible compared to many east coast railways that operated through NYC and other cities of close to a million people or more.

[rogertra]

You guys going on and on about what steam loco you'd like next will not influence Bachmann in the slightest.  Well, hardly anyway.

Think about us poor Canadian modellers.

For years we've had to put up with American diesels and steam locos just repainted in Canadian colours.  Models that are detail wise incorrect for Canada.  Take diesels for example. We usually have different steps wells, different hand rail configurations, different placement of headlights and bells, different grill arrangements and on Alco/MLW units, different sand box designs, some models different exhaust stacks, different trucks, etc., etc..  And they don't always get the colours right.

And let's not even mention steam.  Not a single Canadian r.t.r steam loco of Bachmann Spectrum quality and price ever.

And you guys are discussing the need for a minor steam class addition to the Bachmann range? 

Cheers

Roger T.

[Irbricksceo]

Ha! The woes of a canadian Modeler. Remember kids, there are four railroads that everyone has heard of, whether they like trains or not! Pennsylvania, B &O, Reading, and Shortline!

[clan line 35028]

Ha! The woes of a canadian Modeler. Remember kids, there are four railroads that everyone has heard of, whether they like trains or not! Pennsylvania, B &O, Reading, and Shortline!

Not exactly as not everyone lives in those regions. I am in the midwest region southern Wisconsin and i have never heard about the reading or shortline. but everyone here have heard about the railways that have or had ran through this area. so not totally true. base it more on region not just ohh its the B&O.

[ACY]

Not exactly as not everyone lives in those regions. I am in the midwest region southern Wisconsin and i have never heard about the reading or shortline. but everyone here have heard about the railways that have or had ran through this area. so not totally true. base it more on region not just ohh its the B&O.

He was referring to the four railroad properties in the board game Monopoly. He assumed most people would realize that. He wasn't making a serious comment.

[ryeguyisme]

Wow, what an interesting conversation this has turned into , well ...um how about those who are into railroads from areas they've never been to? If they even model a specific railroad  or a fantasy line? I guess famous locomotives comes first and foremost before anything else but when I first learned of the Yellowstone wheel arrangement, it was from the DM&IR and I never would've thought B&O had them, until Bachmann announced them. It was as obscure but not doubtful and a PRR 0-8-8-0 made in Brass, which I never knew existed until I had seen it at my Local Brass dealer.

I don't see why some  would be up in arms over a DM&IR Yellowstone it wouldn't be a bad marketing idea considering the locomotives' popularity