wheels and truck

[jbrock27]

I agree shot and bbs are good for other places harder to place a penny, outside of their great use inside of a boxcar, but have to point out, nothing cheaper to use than pennies.  Most people have them in a jar or elsewhere, don't really use them for anything else and saves having to go out and buy rubbers and bird shot.   Pennies can also be cut with a tins snips if you have to "tweak" the weight.  In keeping with what my good friend Jerry recently posted and reminded me of I have to give credit for the penny concept and cutting to Roger.

[electrical whiz kid]

Pennies are actually a more expensive way to go, Jim; especially if you are willing to scour the "parking places" the morning after...
Seriously, take a condom, load it up with the desired weight, tie it off, and stick it into the cavity desired  (get your mind out of the gutter...) and glue it.  If you do this with just shot or b-bs , they will break out after a while and eventually cause a disaster-so do contain them.
On installing different size screws, body modifications, etc; I suggest that when setting up the screw, do it in a completely square/plumb setting; by that I mean, use a drill press, Bridgeport miller, etc.  Don't fool with some half-baked Rube Goldberg set-up.  This truck screw location and position is CRUCIAL for good operation-unless you have a penchant for lopsided running equipment!
Another thing I have "discovered," is when using that reamer, I will use it in conjunction with my moto tool.  I use a shaft with a bit of rubber tubing on it, install the tool in the truck, and just touch the moto tool to it and release.  Once you get the hang of this, you will find it to be quick and easy.  Also, the tool will take care of only one side at a time, so keep track (pun??) of what you are doing.
Also, with rare exception, freight cars have 33 inch wheels on older stock, and on newer cars, 36 inch appears to be the going size.  On passenger equipment, 36 inch is the norm.
For the narrow gaugers, I an not sure if such a reaming tool is available.  Check your catalogues.
SGT C. 

[RAM]

I think pennies are the cheapest way you can go.  They are also easy to work with.

[rogertra]

Sorry but I have to slightly disagree.

Re:  Perpendicular screws.

The retaining screw does nothing but stop the truck falling from the car when it's picked up.  In most cases, what maintains the truck centred on the chassis is the centre boss casting which goes up through the centre of the truck's bolster.  The centre boss cast into the chassis.  So, the truck does not pivot around the screw rather it pivots around the cast boss.  The exception to this will be when you are replacing a missing plastic retaining pin.  Then all I do is look in my box marked "Small Screws", where I toss all the small screws I can find, and look for a screw that just fits into the hole the plastic pin came from.  I then just screw that screw into the pin hole.  After all, we are dealing with plastic here and the screw will cut its own thread.  I've even done that on metal chassis as the metal is just a light alloy.    

Screws, by their nature, are never tight but always slack.  One screw, I always use the "B" end screw is just, repeat just tight enough to let the truck easily rotate but not rock side to side.  The "A" end truck retaining screw is left loose and only tighten enough to prevent the truck from become detached from the truck centring boss.  One "tight" screw and one "loose" screw gives you a three point suspension and makes cars track better.  

Re: Pennies.

Pennies are cheap but should always be glued along the centre line of the car and only on the inside of the car, not to the underside.

Cheers

Roger T.

[jbrock27]

Sarge, no one said anything about "scouring a parking lot for pennies".  And I certainly don't go through that rigmarole and use all the methods and tools you mentioned to update a car and don't know anyone else that does.  Sounds a bit over engineered.  The ones I work on, using the method I painstakingly described, roll and track great.

Roger, no one suggested putting pennies on the underside.  And who and what exactly are you disagreeing with?

[rufuswhite@gmx.com]

Lots of good ideas here, y'all.  I'm not grasping the three-point suspension concept yet, but maybe I will after I've tinkered with the trucks a little more.  I couldn't get the truck tuner from Micro Mark because they are back ordered.  Maybe later.  Meanwhile I have two new Bettendorf trucks to experiment with and I have wheelsets ordered.  After y'all mentioned bird shot, I remembered I have a pound or two of B-B's left over from my grandkids.

[Len]

In addition to the method jbrock suggested for converting friction fit trucks, you can fill the hole with 4-minute epoxy. Let it set overnight (it says 4-min, but it gets stronger with a longer set up time), file any excess flat, then drill and tap for a 2-56 screw.

Both methods work and one may be simpler than the other, depending on the type of car and whether the body has been glued in place at some point.

Len

[rogertra]

Roger, no one suggested putting pennies on the underside.  And who and what exactly are you disagreeing with?

I took the comment "scouring parking places" to imply pennies were falling from cars therefore they were glued under the car.  Misinterpretation on my part?

I don't agree with need for screws to be absolutely perpendicular.  I think close enough is good enough.   

Cheers

Roger T.

[jbrock27]

Ruf, put simply here is the scoop on the 3 point suspension method: the screw on one truck gets tightened all the way down till it don't move, then back off (loosen) the screw just enough to allow the truck to freely rotate, left and right.  The other screw is kept looser, allowing the truck to not only rotate left and right but wooble up and down.

I took the comment "scouring parking places" to imply pennies were falling from cars therefore they were glued under the car.  Misinterpretation on my part?

Don't know Roger; but probably.  You'd have to ask Sarge.  I interpreted his comment to suggest that somehow it was suggested that one searches parking lots for pennies to use as weights.

I do agree with you, that it is not hyper critical the screws that hold the trucks in, go in perfectly straight (of course the straighter the better).  It is more important whatever material gets filed away from the bolster hole still leaves the surface even, so the car does not tilt when stitting on the trucks.

[jbrock27]

Len, I have seen the method you mentioned, previously, in places.  I don't employ it bc I have found it leaves very little length (distance) for a screw to be mounted up the bolster hole, bc the car weight acts like a "stop".  Then you can't tighten either truck screw down (even using preformed 1/4" 2-56 screws from RS).  At least this is the case with box cars. 
I prefer to take the weight off if it is in the way and either trim the ends back past the bolster hole to allow for the  screw to come up from the bolster or drill a large enough hole at either end of the weight, right over the bolster holes so there is no interference with gluing the styrenne tubes there.  I can always glue the weight back with 2 part expoxy and then add additional weight with pennies.  Again, for a box car that is.

[jward]

On installing different size screws, body modifications, etc; I suggest that when setting up the screw, do it in a completely square/plumb setting; by that I mean, use a drill press, Bridgeport miller, etc.  Don't fool with some half-baked Rube Goldberg set-up.  This truck screw location and position is CRUCIAL for good operation-unless you have a penchant for lopsided running equipment!
.
SGT C. 

which begs the question: if you are going to the expense of using a drill press on your model railroad equipment, why bother trying to fix up cheap cars? a drill press isn't something most of us just happen to have lying around.....

a much easier solution it seems to me would be to look before you buy, make sure that what you are buying has decent trucks and body mounted couplers, then make any modifications necessary on cars that only need an upgrade not a total rebuild. there are plenty of old roundhouse, athearn of walthers/ train miniature cars on ebay or at the train shows, usually at prices competitive with the old junkers.

[Len]

Jbrock - If I see a weight when doing the epoxy, I use a toothpick to push the glue down to where it can bond with the weight too. Then when I drill the epoxy for taping, I drill through the weight too. Then run the tap through the expoxy and the weight.

Len

[rogertra]

[/quote]
a much easier solution it seems to me would be to look before you buy, make sure that what you are buying has decent trucks and body mounted couplers, then make any modifications necessary on cars that only need an upgrade not a total rebuild. there are plenty of old roundhouse, athearn of walthers/ train miniature cars on ebay or at the train shows, usually at prices competitive with the old junkers.
[/quote]

Excellent suggestion, well worth taking  to heart.  Don't buy junk, no matter how cheap it is, buy quality.

Cheers

Roger T.

[jbrock27]

I apologize Len, I am not following what you are suggesting

"buy quality".  Yep, terrific, albeit, pretty obvious advice.  But this thread is not about asking what to buy (the buy has already been made) but what to do with the items bought.   I'll add that "quality", can have different meanings to different people.  After all...

[rufuswhite@gmx.com]

Ruf, put simply here is the scoop on the 3 point suspension method: the screw on one truck gets tightened all the way down till it don't move, then back off (loosen) the screw just enough to allow the truck to freely rotate, left and right.  The other screw is kept looser, allowing the truck to not only rotate left and right but wobble up and down.

So far, what work I have done mounting a truck to a car I have done with one screw right in the middle of the truck where there is one hole.  So where does the second screw go, the one you keep looser?  Or are we talking about two trucks, one just barely free to rotate, and the other left loose to wobble?  I may come closer to understanding the concept, if we can just talk about one truck at a time.  We could call them first truck and second truck unless there is a better name to use.  Also, why is it called 3 point suspension?  What are the three points?