Talgo Upgrade

[Yampa Bob]

Since this topic appears often, I thought a pictorial might help. Some easy steps but rather long.  If you already know all this, that's great. Title is brief for later search.

For an example, we will do minor surgery on a Mantua Combine. The car has knuckle couplers, but is prone to derail when backing up.

 

Turn trucks sideways for access to body mount tabs. Using fingernail pull one tab toward center of car until body lifts from floor.  Pivot body upward to release other end.  If you break off tabs, you will have to glue styrene blocks in body and fasten floor with screws.

THE SURGICAL INSTRUMENTS.

When I have a bunch of cars to rebuild I don't have time or patience to improvise. Use what you have, but an essential tool is a pair of precision flush cutting end nippers. 

Remove truss wires and weight clip from chassis.  With a thin flat screwdriver pry weight from floor.  It is glued with rubber cement, but will come loose with some gentle persuasion on both sides and ends.

From the top, insert screwdriver into recessed bolster hole, pry one tab toward center of hole while pulling firmly on truck until it snaps out of hole. 

Temporarily replace weight, mark through bolster holes from bottom and drill two 1/4" holes in the weight.

From the top, drill out bolster holes  with 3/16" bit.    Time to cut some pieces of styrene. You can use leftover sprue, but the following assures a straight and centered bolt hole.

Cut 2 pieces each of 3/16"  and 1/8" styrene tubes, about 3/4" long.  Styrene is cheap, leave  extra for handles while gluing.   Smooth and round cut off edges with sanding board.

Ream  bolster holes slightly, alternating from top and bottom, with a 1/4" coarse tapered round file.  Check fit of 3/16" tube often,  needs to be a smooth fit without being sloppy or binding.  Better to be a bit snug than too loose, but there must be space for cement. 

My choice of cement is Testors #8872, a medium viscosity liquid with needle applicator.  Keep tissue handy to  remove excess cement immediately after gluing each piece. 

BODY BOLSTERS. Refer to this picture while proceeding

Apply a bit of cement inside bolster hole, and a generous spread  around outside of 3/16" tube.  Insert tube with a rotating motion until tube is protruding about 1/4" above and below floor.  On the top, run a bead of cement in the cavity between the tube and floor.

Apply cement inside 3/16" tube, and a spread around outside of 1/8" tube.  Insert inside 3/16" with a rotating motion until fairly flush at each end.  Let dry for at least an hour.

TRUCKS
Cut mounting posts and coupler plates off trucks with end nippers, close to center plate.

Cut about a 5 inch piece of 1/8" solid styrene rod.  Sand/taper one end until it fits into one of the truck plate holes and protrudes about 1/8" on the other side.  Cut off leaving 1/2" or so for a handle.  Continue tapering the rod and inserting in holes.  Then remove the plugs, apply generous  beads of cement, and insert into holes with a twisting motion until tight.  Let dry for an hour.  (Don't forget to keep wiping off excess cement that oozes out.)

Back to the bolsters.  With a fine razor saw, cut bottom tubes flush with the stock bolster tube.   Using a 3/4" wide sanding board, laid lengthwise across both bolsters, lightly sand tubes/bolster  smooth. This assures bolsters will be flat and even.

Don't pre-tap bolster tubes, let a 2-56 bolt do the tapping.  The bolt needs to turn fairly hard for precise adjustment of truck swivel and sway.

Trucks:  Snip off excess rods with end cut nippers.  Using a 1/2" wide sanding board, sand top of truck plate smooth.  Turn truck over, sand bottom of plate, support on narrow board,  make a heavy mark with fine point scribe at exact center of truck plate. between the two plugs.  Drill 1/16", then enlarge to 3/32".  Ream the journals with "The Tool" and install metal wheels if you like.  You might have to spread the frames to allow wheels to free spin,  be careful as plastic trucks grow brittle with age.

To make the coupler heights close to correct,  the truck mounting tube should extend below the bottom of floor about 3/16"  A digital depth gauge determined the measurement to be .2350, minus .1875 equals .0475.   So it will require 2 pieces of styrene shim under the draft box,  .040 and .010.  Glue the shims beween steps, even with end of floor, but do not cover square holes for body clips.  You can alternately sand off the bolster .030 and use thinner shims, though typically these vintage cars were never "low riders".  It's your option.

Assemble a  Kadee #148 coupler and box, center box between steps with lip against body.  Drill 1/16" hole through shims and floor, tap with 2-56 and attach box with a 1/4" phillips head machine screw.  Bend up trip pins a little with your tool of choice.  I use Kadee pliers, some have success with needle nose pliers. 

Install trucks with 2-56 X 3/8" or 1/2"  phillips head machine screws, check coupler heights with Kadee gauge. "Coupler too high, shim box down or sand off bolster, Coupler low shim between bolster and truck or file down floor." I prefer the machine screws for more precise adjustment, and you can buy them for as little as 57 cents per 100 depending on length.  In case you missed it before,  go to Fastenal.com.   I leave the bolster tube stick up above floor for more thread length.

Replace the weight and holding clip, add 1/2 ounce to bring weight up to standards.  Since my vintage cars are run as present day excursions, I typically replace trucks with Model Power # 9400 trucks with metal wheels, and save the old trucks for use on my give-a-ways.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWN06&P=SM

Have fun.

[hgcHO]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you

Bob - you have done a great favor allowing us into your information source.

HGC

[rogertra]

Yampa Bob wrote: -

"They say a clean work bench is a sign of a sick mind, so be it."


And a messy workbench is a sign of active modelling? 

[Guilford Guy]

I agree Roger... I have like 7 different project on the bench right now... (Conway Scenic 44 tonner, Conway Scenic S4, MBTA GP40MC, Working on a doodlebug, painting Several Cranes and Crane Tenders for Steve Warrington's family, Detailing an MBTA cabcar, G scale 4-8-2 project, Painting and detailing a GP9, painting and detailing a GP38-2...) okay, more than 7, but everythings all cluttered....

[grumpy]

You started another one Bob
A clean desk means a cluttered mind. A cluttered desk means you have lost it somewhere in that pile.
Don

[Jim Banner]

Bob, an excellent description and great photos.  Truly a service to other modelers.

Very neat work bench too.  Sorry to say, I haven't seen the top of mine for years.  Thanks to Don, I now know where I lost my mind.

[Yampa Bob]

Thanks Jim
In life I have learned the art of "focusing".  But you have to be aware of other priorities that may suddenly become more pressing. At least that's what my wife keeps telling me. 

Roger
Actually, I think your workbench is pretty well organized. 

With my really lousy eyesight, every tool must be exactly in it's place so I can grab it without looking.  If a tool gets misplaced, I have to call my wife out to find it.  I have about 30 feet of workbench, the rest is test track and  equipment for solar power systems repair.

Say Don, how about solar power for your garden railway?  That would be cool.

Model Power actually had a 7% price reduction on their Mantua line.  I think the cars are very nice for the money, with wire details and glazed windows.  I have about 20 of the 1860 - 1890, and very pleased with the looks. With new trucks and couplers I figure they are worth the added $4 to upgrade.

Bob

[rogertra]

Roger
Actually, I think your workbench is pretty well organized.  But my goodness, THOSE CURTAINS.  OUCH!!!!   

They're in the basement but that's still not excuse.

FASHION POLICE, where are you?

[Yampa Bob]

Roger
I couldn't resist.  Reminds me of the time my son wanted his bedroom decorated with black wall paper and silver stripes.   I never did go into his room, guess that was his plan  LOL.
Bob

[Beatthe9ers]

Great stuff, Bob, thank you very much.

I was wondering if anyone knows of any YouTube or similar videos that might be out there that have some instructional content regarding this or other modeling topics: proper soldering techniques, how to wire a reverse loop, good ways to clean loco wheels, and so on and so on.

I'm a 'learn by watching' guy, as many are.  As fantastic as Bob's instructions are, a video compliment would be incredible.  Just a thought.

[Guilford Guy]

Check out "How to Weather like Lee W"
Actually, you don't want to see that...
Theres a good weathering clinic for CP grain hoppers on youtube... I'll dig up the link later... and try to find the couplers I need to send you...

[Yampa Bob]

9ers:
Glad you liked the article.  You actually provided the final inspiration, as I saw your questions in another thread.

While it is true that learning involves a lot of reading and some watching,  I have actually learned much more in life by "doing".   It's the hands on experience that counts.  My instructions are meaningless until you actually take the plunge and do it.

Incidentally, no one taught me how to upgrade Talgo.  I had some old cars, and just started experimenting with some methods.  Yeah, I made some mistakes.  Learning also means discovering what you should not do.  But it's only a plastic car, what's the worst that can happen? 

Bob

[grumpy]

Bob
I would love to run my garden railroad on solar power but first I need sun.As I said in the past - If you never try anything you will never make a mistake . If you never make a mistake you will never learn anything.
Don

[Yampa Bob]

Don
All I can add is  "AMEN" brother.

By the way, I also sell small wind generators.  Does the wind ever blow where you are at?  Come to think about it, where are you at?  North Pole? Naw, sun shines there for 6 months.        Donde vive?
Bob

[Stephen D. Richards]

Bob,
   I had read somewhere that you worked on solar systems.  Keep me in mind here in the not to distant future.  I should be home again this Jun and I don't get the most sun around.  However, I do get a lot of wind and I own to the top of a mountain.  Translated, I have more than 100 feet of vertical drop.  My off thread email is richards@meer.net.  I would be interested in talking to you about that.  Also, I am interested in your "cutter".  Over here on Gov. computers I can not get most pictures or anything like You Tube.  I too lean the best by doing!   thanks,  Stephen