Frustration with HO couplers

[Neo Fender]

Part of my irritation stems from the fact that I'm relatively new to the hobby and I don't know what's what in the wonderful world of couplers. I have two Bachmann HO sets (three locomotives).  They both (excluding Thomas) have what I assume are knuckle couplers.  I've slowly been buying a piece of rolling stock here and there (new and used) and have been limiting myself to stock with knuckle couplers only. 

Yesterday at a new LHS, I bought box cars (three Life-Like, a Model Power and a Mantua).  They all had the "standard" (NMRA?  Hook and Horn?) couplers.  At the owner's recommendation I bought a pair of Proto 2000 Couplers.  This was for the Mantua that has chassis mounted couplers.  I also bought a 20 pack of Life Like Scene Modeler knuckle Couplers "For upgrading starter Life-Like Locos and Freight Cars" for the Life Like and Model Power box cars.  Perfect, right?

Well after spending over five minutes on the Mantua, it turned out that the hole in the knuckle coupler was much larger than on the original, so the coupler flops around too much.  With the truck-mounted Life Like couplers, they "catch" in the middle of the pivot.  I think the back of the coupler is catching on the back end of the coupler box.  In other words, the Life-Like couplers don't work on Life-like trains.

At this point, I'm not sure what to do.  Should I stick with the original couplers and "back fit" my Bachmann sets?  Would Kadee be my salvation?  Any guidance would be appreciated.
   

[SteamGene]

When buying replacement couplers, the only way to go is Kaydee.    It almost sounds to me like the owner wanted to get rid of ancient merchandise.  A Model Power car with a horn hook coupler needs to have the coupler pocket replaced and I'm fairly sure that is true of the Life Like as well.  I've put Kadees on quite a few Mantua cars with no problem.
Gene

[jward]

replacing the older horn hook couplers on your cars isn't as simple as a drop in replacement, especially with truck mounted couplers. with knuckle couplers, coupler height is critical and i STRONGLY urge you to get a kadee coupler height guage and use it..... minor differences in coupler height can be fixed by raising or lowering the coupler box.

your cars with truck mounted couplers present a much more complicated problem. first of all, you'll probably want to have your couplers mounted on the body not the trucks. they are much more reliable that way, especially when backing up. second, even if you do opt to keep the truck mount, the couplers are often too low and the trip pins catch on trackwork, not to mention that mismatched height leads to cars uncoupling where you don't want them to.

probably the best interim solution for you is to make a "conversion car" or two. you take one of your cars with body mounted couplers, and replace one of the knuckle couplers with a horn hook. thus, you can have your locomotive and knuckle coupler cars ahead of this car, and your horn hooks behind.

last, the comment was made that kadee couplers are the best. i concur, they are metal and very durable and should last a lifetime. that said, i generally leave the other makes of couplers in place until they fail before i replace them with kadee. most if not all knuckle couplers will work with kadee so compatability should not be an issue.

[CNE Runner]

With trembling hands I enter the "minefield" of magnetic couplers. It has been my experience that the topic of magnetic couplers qualifies as another of the world's great religions. Here goes....

Neofender (is it OK if I just call you "Neo"?) you will not regret the change from X2F (hook & horn) couplers to one of the brands of magnetic couplers. I think you are going to find that all newer rolling stock comes equipped with magnetic couplers and not the old X2Fs - which makes compatibility an issue. I, and Kadee couplers, do not get along and never have. To be fair Kadee couplers are some of the strongest on the market (being made of metal instead of engineered plastic) and work well with long strings of cars. Personally I find the Bachmann EZmate units to fit my needs and they have a centering spring moulded into the unit. Probably the most important thing one needs to do, with Kadee couplers, is to put the centering spring on the correct side of the coupler...it should be on the top of the draft gear box when the car is on the rails (check out the Kadee website). I have yet to see a magnetic coupler reliably uncouple (I'm sure I will be corrected by the host of "experts" waiting to pounce in the wings). Neo - I actually cut off the little trip pin from all my magnetic couplers and use the tried and true skewer method of uncoupling...'goes a long way in preserving your sanity.

Regarding the "sloppy fit" of the replacement coupler; I agree with Gene that you will probably need to replace the entire draft box (Kadee sells these on their website and I always have at least 10 of these around). You used to be able to buy little bushings that took up the slack that resulted in converting from X2F to magnetic units - but I haven't been able to find them as of late. Replacing the draft box does require some cutting and filing; but it isn't all that difficult (watch your fingers in the cutting mode).

The most important thing to adjust (or check) is coupler height. For this you need a Kadee coupler height gauge. This gauge will tell you if your couplers are of the correct (and therefore same) height and if the trip pin is curved correctly (like I said earlier I cut these things off). Kadee sells a series of washers that will adjust the height of the coupler slightly. You can also use the washers underneath the car's trucks to raise a car/coupler from a too low position (and in the result - raise the coupler). Be careful with this as you want your cars to travel down the tracks with approximately the same floor height...a little variation is fine (if someone notices and comments - have them take a large step back from the layout and everything will look fine. This method corrects blemishes in rolling stock, locomotives and structures.).

You will need: a set of magnetic couplers (your choice), some replacement draft boxes and lids, a Kadee coupler installation and application guide (on their website), a coupler/trip pin height gauge, a trip pin adjusting tool, a set of washers and probably an Xacto knife as well as some jeweler's files. These tools and supplies will last you throughout your model railroading career and are must haves.

The first car will take you for (seemingly) ever to change the couplers...trust me it gets easier and easier. Most of the kits on the market today come with magnetic couplers so you will only have to deal with older (cheaper) cars. Oh, some of the older cars come equipped with Tago trucks (the couplers are attached to the truck and not the body of the car) and are a little harder to convert. Again there will be some cutting (draft box from the trucks - unless you decided to replace the entire truck) and some filing and gluing of a new draft box to the frame of the car. Another good tool to have in this case is a 2-56 tap and related drill (you can get these from Micro Mark) - along with a supply of various length 2-56 screws.

Good luck Neo and welcome to our hobby! Keep in mind almost any mistake can be corrected (or painted over).

Cheers,
Ray

[Jhanecker2]

Kadee makes a talgo adapter for changing over to Kadee & other couplers , the adapter fits the larger hole in the couplers. Also get the tool for installing the adapter it makes it less work . Please check out Kadees site.

[jward]

cne
i agree that the kadee centering springs can be a pain. kadee now offers a #148 whisker coupler which eliminates this spring in favour of metal whishers on the side of the coupler shaft.it makes them a drop in replacement like the plastic knuckle couplers.....

[CNE Runner]

Jward - Yes, that would make the couplers considerably more reliable...that darn spring was always a problem.

Ray

[pdlethbridge]

go here for more on couplers and download their PDF file
http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=2089

[r0bert]

Neo,
Sorry to hear that You are having trouble with the couplers, as You got them from Me, and if You like, bring them by next week, and I will get them set up for You.
r0bert

[Yampa Bob]

I think the Kadee #148 is the easiest way to upgrade any car. The "whisker" springs are similar to the EZ Mate, very simple to assemble.  If you want to completely upgrade Talgo truck equipped cars, this thread might help.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,4917.0.html

I've upgraded over 50 cars with this method, I consider it well worth the effort and slight expense involved.

[Jim Banner]

Probably the most important thing one needs to do, with Kadee couplers, is to put the centering spring on the correct side of the coupler...it should be on the bottom of the draft gear box when the car is on the rails

Ray, the reason you and Kadees don't get along may be because the centering spring is supposed to be over top of the coupler shank when the car is on the rails.  Check the instructions for the No. 5 at the link below.  The springs are not symmetrical and do not work properly if installed under the coupler shank.

http://www.kadee.com/html/5ins.pdf

[pdlethbridge]

   If you install in a body mount situation like an athearn car, its easier to put the spring in first which would end up on top when the car is on the rails

[CNE Runner]

Jim - you are absolutely correct in saying that the centering spring is to be installed so it sits on the top of the coupler when on the rails. I have no idea what made me reverse the procedure...probably old age or an advanced case of C.R.S. Thanks for the correction as I do not want to add more confusion/frustration to Nero.

Sometimes I scare myself!
Ray

[Yampa Bob]

Ray
Just lean back on the couch and tell me when it all started. 

The bottom is the bottom when the bottom of the car is on top, but the bottom is the top when the car is on top of the tracks and the top is then the bottom. 

Got it?

[SteamGene]

For most cars lying upside down in a support, with a Kaydee #5 or similar coupler, insert the spring into the coupler pocket first.  Then add the couper, with the glad hand up,  and then fasten the pocket lid.   
Gene