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Author Topic: Figure 8 components  (Read 10379 times)
Joe Satnik


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« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2009, 08:43:36 AM »

Craig,

I calculated the "no cut" recipe using 3.5" as the length of the crossing, which was in error. 

As pointed out by Hunt, the length of the crossing is closer to 12".   

If my first "no cut" recipe works at all, it's because of luck and a lot of slop tolerance in the layout. 

I can definitely do better.

New recipe later this morning.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik
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Craig

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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2009, 08:49:05 AM »


The next track to release should be a half curve, 

or a 60 degree crossing (of a specific useful length for R1 curves),

or both.


(60 degree figure 8s don't need the half curves.)

Offering half straights separate from the 90 degree crossing would be great.

A 30 degree crossing (of a specific useful length for R1 curves) would allow shorter length figure 8s. 

Half curves would allow expansion along the length of the 30 degree figure 8, in the same manner as they would help the 90 degree figure 8. 

Joe,

I agree with you about the future product line augmentation, but in the mean time your "kit" would provide an economical, easy way to utilize the existing crossing with existing materials.

Half (and one-third) curves would allow us to build more interesting layouts than the figure-8. If we also had a 30 crossing to work with we could even build something along the lines of a 'twice around", which I personally favor many fold over a figure-8.
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Craig

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« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2009, 09:48:24 AM »

Craig,

I calculated the "no cut" recipe using 3.5" as the length of the crossing, which was in error. 

As pointed out by Hunt, the length of the crossing is closer to 12".   

If my first "no cut" recipe works at all, it's because of luck and a lot of slop tolerance in the layout. 

I can definitely do better. New recipe later this morning.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

Joe,

Upon further examination I find the "reasonably fluid" design to be much less fluid than I originally thought. Initially, I'd laid the components out without connecting them, and I accidentally substituted half straights for two of the full straights at the crossing when I did so(they were already joined).

This morning I moved some furniture and assembled one side of a figure-8 on my living room floor with a printout of your recipe as my guide. Once the track pieces were connected and "trued", even subtracting the roughly 6" at the crossing itself didn't help much. I'm looking forward to your next recipe, which hopefully will materialize before my wife gets home :~)

Craig

« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 09:52:46 AM by Craig » Logged
Joe Satnik


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« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2009, 12:56:29 PM »

Dear Craig and All,

I have to apologize to Bachmann for criticizing their track dimensions.

It turns out that the  ~12" length of the 90 degree crossing, along with the ~6" half straights, work perfectly together with the ~24" radius (R1) curves to form a natural figure 8. 

The only thing missing is half-curves to allow expandability along the length of the figure 8.

No-cut, non-expandable natural 90 degree X R1 figure 8 recipe:   

One 90 degree x 11-7/8" crossing. 
1 half straight (~6")
1 regular straight (~12")
9 regular (R1) curves (~24"R x 30 degrees) all turning in same direction. 
1 regular straight
1 half straight
Hook up end of last half straight to 90 degree crossing.

Mirror image the other side.

If you cut two regular curves into 4 half curves, you would get expandability along the length:

One 90 degree x 11-7/8" crossing. 
1 half straight (~6")
1 regular straight (~12")
1 cut (R1) half curve (~24"R x 15 degrees) all curves turning in same direction.
8 regular (R1) curves (~24"R x 30 degrees) 
1 cut (R1) half curve (~24"R x 15 degrees) 
1 regular straight
1 half straight
Hook up end of last half straight to 90 degree crossing.

Mirror image the other side.

Layout dimensions:  52" x 119"

Minimum table top (fence-to-fence) dimensions: 55" x 122".

So, your (change your oval to a) "Figure-8 Track Pack" (kit) would need:

One 90 degree crossing (four half-straights included),

Six curves (or 4 curves plus 4 half-curves for expandability along length).

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik 

Edit: added "(change your oval to a) ... (kit)"  
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 01:22:19 PM by Joe Satnik » Logged

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Craig

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« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2009, 04:31:15 PM »


It turns out that the  ~12" length of the 90 degree crossing, along with the ~6" half straights, work perfectly together with the ~24" radius (R1) curves to form a natural figure 8. 

Joe,

So they do.



I did not yet have a crossing when I started this thread or I might have saved you some math. I obtained a crossing after reading the responses I got here. I still don't have the extra curves I need, though thanks to you I now have a source for those.  Thank you for all of your help.
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Joe Satnik


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« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2009, 09:16:34 PM »

Dear Craig,

You can reduce your per-piece postage costs by increasing your order.  (Grin)

Thanks for the pic and the confirmation of my recipe. 

Now if we could just get Bachmann to produce those new track pieces.....

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik
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Craig

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« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2009, 08:40:20 AM »

Joe,

Thank you for the Bachmann G gauge track you supplied to me. The price was fantastic and I can't tell the "slightly used" track you sold me from the brand new track.

I will keep you in mind when the kids want to expand their Christmas sets, or if I need another circle of track for the tree downstairs.

Speaking of Christmas, how are you fixed for Bachmann Christmas trains?

Craig
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Joe Satnik


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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2009, 10:42:32 AM »

Dear Craig,

Thanks for the kind words.  Glad I could help out.   

I have new (sealed in box) 90054 Christmas (Holiday Special) Annie Passenger - Trolley sets, complete or individual pieces (add an engine-tender or expand your consist, e.g.) 

I also have a new, box only opened for inspection, the matching 2-car Baggage-Combine add-on set.

G Track, too.

Contact info near the top of this thread.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

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on30gn15


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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2009, 01:22:33 PM »

Hey Craig, I can confirm that Satnik Satisfies.

Hey, Joe, there's a company slogan fer ya  Wink Grin

Point noted about figure 8 construction.

Have to make sure Kathy sees this too.
We got grandkids, middle granddaughter nuts about bugs, trains, woodworking tools, and fairies. nobody is ever going to completely figure that child out!
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Screw the Rivets, I'm building for Atmosphere!
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jsmvmd

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« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2009, 06:10:47 PM »

Dear Friends,

Two questions:

1.  I did the +/- and did not see any reverse loops.  Right ?

2.  Are the frogs in the crossing section isolated ?

Thanks ! 

Best Wishes,

Jack
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Joe Satnik


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« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2009, 11:03:49 AM »

Dear jsmvmd,

1.) Two-rail Figure 8s by themselves do not create reverse loops that short out the power pack.

It's when people try to make a figure 8 inside an oval using 4 turnouts and a crossing that the reverse loops and shorts occur.

2.) The diamond rails and frogs look like non-conducting black plastic.   



Hope this helps. 

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

 
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If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.
jsmvmd

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« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2009, 01:03:40 PM »

Dear Joe,

Thanks a  million !

Best Wishes,

Jack

P.S.  Are you a vendor?  If so, could you post your website or email, or email me?  I need some track and turnouts.  jsmvmd at aol period com
Thanks again !
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