Turnouts

[royalhaw]

Good Day one and all.  My question deals with turnouts.  I have been looking for an "understandable" discription of the three types of turnouts.  I have seen the #4, #6, and #8.  They have also been called, Short radius, Medium radius, and Long radius.  All these names leave me lost.  I putting together a layout that will have curves that have a radius of both 17" and one at 15".  I want to run good sized passenger cars (85' ?- thats another question).  What turnouts would work best, or should I say would "look" best.  Additionally, I have been told that c 55 track might cause a problem with some American rolling stock because the depth of the rail is too small.  What is the best to use?  Last question, lenghts of passenger cars.  What works and what does not work (look good).  Thanks for your help....Harlan

[ac12]

#4 turnouts have the tightest/shortest radius on the diverging track
#8 the largest radius

For passenger cars to LOOK good, use the largest # turnout you can.  This minimizes the jolting and overhang that the car will go thru when going thru the turnout. 

On the mainline you want the #8, you can use a #6 in the yard where you will be going much slower.

As for car length, it will depend on the layout.
My layout is "small" with 12in R curves.  The 85ft cars hang out over the side of the track in the curves.   And only a few cars and the train looks "odd" on my small layout.
I use the shortest cars that I can find, 40ft for freight and the "shortie" passenger cars (even if they are not prototypical), because the shorter train looks better.

There are several things happening with short cars.
- There is the "Lionel" effect.  Your eye counts the number of cars, not the length of the cars.  So a train with more cars "looks" longer.
- A shorter train looks more realistic on a small layout, vs a long one that is almost the length of the layout.
- Short cars don't look odd going around a tight turn, like a LONG car would.

I will use an EMD F-unit rather than the longer E-units, or an Alco FA/FB rather than the PA/PB for the same reason.

[ACY]

#4 turnouts have the tightest/shortest radius on the diverging track, #8 the largest radius

This is incorrect. For number four turnouts, the route diverges 1 unit for every 4 units of length. Similarly for number eight turnouts the route diverges 1 unit for every 8 units of length. The divergent route for #8s are more forgiving than the route for a #4. For larger locos and rolling stock use the largest number you can for the space available (#8). For the passenger cars the #8 turnouts would work the best and be the least likely to cause a problem or derailment. In general, the longer the locos and their wheelbases, the larger number radius and turnouts you want. If your turnouts are #8 and your radius is 19 inches, you will be able to run 99.9999% of N scale items without issue and while looking great. With 15 inch radius you can run 99% of rolling stock including the 85' passenger cars. Basically I advise using the largest turnouts and radius for your available space that will ensure that everything will run and look great. But if you are short on space you can still have a good layout with 11.25" radius and run 40 ft cars and smaller locos and still have everything look great.

[skipgear]

#4 turnouts have the tightest/shortest radius on the diverging track, #8 the largest radius

This is incorrect. For number four turnouts, the route diverges 1 unit for every 4 units of length. Similarly for number eight turnouts the route diverges 1 unit for every 8 units of length. The divergent route for #8s are more forgiving than the route for a #4.

HUH? You tell him he is wrong then proceed to explain why he is right?

BTW - In round numbers, the diverging route on a #4 turnout (Ie: Atlas Snap Track) is roughly equal to a 19"R curve. It's not truely a 19" radius but gives you approximately the same result. A #6 is somewhere around a 28" radius.

Anything that opperates smoothly on 15" radius should have no problem with a properly tuned #4 turnout. Turnouts on the real thing are more often in the #10-12 range of course they also don't run on the equivalent of an N scale 15" radius either.

[ACY]

Numbered turnouts do not have a radius, they have nothing to do with radius they are solely based on the distance the turnout diverges over the length of the turnout. Non-numbered turnouts have a specific radius for the divergent route. Turnouts with numbers technically have no associated radius, but you can say that what would safely run on a certain radius would also run on a certain numbered turnout.

[Albert in N]

Turnouts can be a major issue on any layout.  I do not want to take issue, but the curve track radius on any turnout makes a lot of difference.  In early N scale days (late 1960s and early 1970s), MiniTrix (German train maker) sold track and turnouts.  Trix #4 turnouts had a severe curve (probably 9 3/4 or 7 1/2 radius) that derailed most locomotives and many cars.  Yet, Atlas #4 turnouts worked since they had 19" radius curves with extra 19" radius track section furnished.  I trashed the MiniTrix turnouts like everyone else did.  Unfortunately my 2005 and newer Bachmann N E-Z track switches (presumably #4) had tight curves (11" radius) that derailed any trains with body mounted locomotive couplers.  Even my Bachmann B23-7 GE and FM H-16-44 locomotives always derailed the following Bachmann freight cars (all with Bachmann dummy knuckle couplers).  The result was the same when I replaced with new E-Z turnouts.  When I upgraded to Kato UniTrack, both Kato #4 and longer #6 turnouts had larger radius curved track and never derail locomotives or cars.  My earlier N scale Atlas track (had #4 turnouts with both 11" radius outer oval and 9 3/4" inner oval connected with #4 turnouts) that worked fine with no derailments.  That was because the Atlas #4 turnouts all had 19" curves.  Since I prefer powered turnout frogs and roadbed track, I left Atlas for Bachmann then went to Kato.  Hopefully the new Bachmann E-Z track line will offer turnouts with at least 19" curves.