Dummy Upgrade Motor Problem

[stubbsO]

I kitbashed a old Lionel Geep and used the dummy upgrade kit to power the old lionel around the track.  I could only use one motor as Lionel had the old post war loco's set up that way.
I tapped the power wire into the wire for the Lionel pickup. It ran great and smooth for 2 1/2 hours and then started to slow down almost to the point of not running at all. I had no grinding, squaking, etc. type noise that said I need a lube job or anything! OK, time for a loco swap, when I went to pick up the Geep the body was warm and the motor truck was even warmer on the bottom then the body. Like I said, this is only a 1 motor unit and ran super. I have never had this happen with 3 F-3 that I've done as well as the 8 other WBB loco's that I have.  I plan to swap out with the extra motor & truck to see what happens there. All my wires and connections are good and strong.  Does anybody have any ideas on what might be happening here, and what maybe am I overlooking? Thanks

[phillyreading]

Are you using the Williams by Bachmann circuit board to power the motor? If not you did an AC burn-out. Williams motors are DC can motors and Lionel postwar are AC motors.
Another thing that you can do is put a 6 amp bridge rectifier into the circuit before the motor, one wire goes to frame ground and the other goes to center rail to the bridge rectifier then to the motor, and make sure both motor wires are hooked to the bridge rectifier. You lose reverse and nuetral doing this.

Lee F.

[stubbsO]

I am using the E-board that came with the upgrade kit, not the old Lionel unit.

[phillyreading]

Did you lube the gears near the motors and the axles? Another thing to consider, are all the electrical connections tight and free of all dirt? If you use the frame of the engine for the ground, is it sanded bare to make a good electrical connection.

Lee F.

[stubbsO]

Yes, yes, and yes!

[phillyreading]

The only thing left for me to think of is, what transformer are you using?
Is it a Lionel or other brand of transformer, new or postwar version?
However I never ran my trains for more than an hour, so the heat problem is something I have not come across. I have run my trains for more than two hours, but usually switch trains, so I have not run the same one for over 45 minutes normally.
The only problem that I have experianced was with a Lionel lighted caboose, it shorted out at the center roller to frame of the truck assembly. Took me a little while to find the problem with my train, as I thought that the engine was shorting out.
Check your center roller pick-up area as that may be giving the problem, again I am taking a guess as to what is wrong.

Lee F.

[stubbsO]

Hey Philly- Thanks for all the input on this, I think I got this nipped in the butt now. What I did was swap out the motors and so far so good after 2 hours, it's runnin alot cooler like it should. I made a call to the Tech Dept. to pick their brain and get a second opinion and they gave me the same 20 questions you have and they came to the conclusion that it's probabally a bad motor. I concur!
I hooked up the motor in question to a transformer and threw the throttle to see what's up. After like 15 seconds the motor stopped by itself. After giving the flywheel a push to get it going again, the motor didn't really want to run and got hot quick. So I guess with the forward motion of the loco kinda kept the motor runnin but again the problem at hand. Thanks again.
FWIW- Tech did say that with the newer transformers that the sine wave causes problems for them but I'm using a old "Z".
Now, I can't wait till WBB comes out with the new sound board!!!! Hurry up, cause I want 10 of them!

[phillyreading]

Glad to hear you found the problem and got it fixed.
The newer transformer the tech is talking about is the Lionel CW-80, it has some kind of chopped or modified wave added to the output.
Something I have experianced is the Lionel O gauge switch(6-23011) and Williams engines not working in conjunction with each other. So I use Gargraves switches or postwar 022 switches on my layout.
The Williams tech at the time, a few years ago, told me that the Lionel switch # 6-23010 & 23011 have a design flaw in them.

Lee F.

[stubbsO]

I'll keep that in mind, thanks.