traction problem

[botangles]

I have a Bachmann 2-6-0 Alco a fine running engine. I also realize it's a small and light steam loco. I have 1% and 2% grades everywhere on my layout. I can pull 4 cars (40 ft. boxcars all smooth and free rollers) with this loco, any more than 4 and on a grade the engine doesn't move, just spins. I'm not trying to be unrealistic that it could pull 15 cars but would like to pull 6 or 7 cars with this engine. It doesn't appear there's much room to add weight to the engine. Is there any kind of traction that can be added to the wheels that work, or would it just gum up the wheels with little or no improvement? Haven't added weight to the tender, think that would help? Just trying to pull a couple more cars. Open to ideas. Thanks, Bo.

[jward]

adding weight to the tender won't help as none of the tenwer wheels contribute to pulling power. however, you'll probably want to add electircal pickups to the tender. This is especially true if you do something to the treads of the drive wheels to increase traction.

[jonathan]

Adding weight to this locomotive will help with pulling (a little weight, not a lottle).

Try this:

Take a 1/4 ounce split shot (fishing weight); split it in half...

Pound one half flat and glue it under the roof of the cab.

Using a pliers or something; squeeze the other half into a cylinder shape and put it in the smoke stack.  Paint the top black to hide the weight.

In this way. you've added a little weight, without disassembly.  Then you'll be able to tell if this helps.  I think it will.

Adding any more weight will require removing the shell and looking for nooks and crannies to hide weight.

Regards,

Jonathan

[bapguy]

Or try Bullfrog Snot. It's a product made to be put on loco drivers to improve traction.   Joe.

[rbryce1]

I have this engine and it pulls at least 6 cars up a 2% grade.  I will try more this evening and post the results.

Back in October of this year, I started a thread in this topic area (HO) titled "Traction Tires", as I was inquiring about using Bullfrog Snot on an EM-1 for better traction.  It turns out, the general consensus, and I agree with it, was that the engine's motor and/or geartrain may become overloaded by using a traction enhancer if it was not originally designed to have one, like traction tires.

I would recommend looking into some other cause before using Bullfrog Snot.  My impression of the Bullfrog Snot (which I have) is it makes repairing an engine equipped with traction tires easier to repair than installing new traction tires, or being able to repair it at all if you cannot find replacement traction tires.

We did find the problem with my EM-1's traction and the Bullfrog Snot would not have helped, it would have aggravated it.

Again, I will make a train with my 2-6-0 this evening and let you know what I can pull.

[rbryce1]

I did some test runs with my 2-6-0 this evening.  I easily pulled 5-6 full size unweighted cars up 2%.  the 7th car made the engine wheels slip on the incline, the 8th car made the wheels slip badly when pulling out, but eventually gained traction once the train started moving but although it slipped badly on the incline, it did make it up.  9 cars, forget it.  Like it was welded to the track with the wheels spinning wildly.

BUT.....if I put on 4 weighted cars, it was like I had the 8 unweighted cars.  Wouldn't budge.  Infact, 4 unweighted cars and 2 weighted cars gave it a real lot of trouble.

Another interesting note:  this is a very fast engine once it gets moving, and it holds the track very well in the curves.  With 5 unweighted full size cars behind it, it really (not slightly) outran my 4-6-4 Hudson with NO cars attached to it (except the tender, of course) on a 9 foot long parallel oval.  The Hudson was on the outer track with 22" curves while the 2-6-0 was on the inner track with 18" curves.  You can't really compare well in the curves, but you could see it walking away from the Hudson on the straight lengths even though the Hudson was empty and it had 5 cars attached.

Well, that's what I got.  I will be using it to pull about 8-9 unweighted ore cars on flat track, which gives it no trouble.  It's not Spectrum series, but it does come with DCC and sound, so it's most likely not an entry level engine.  The way the engine seems to be built sort of tells me it's got a really good motor and most likely heavy duty gears.  Also, when I tried 9 cars and it just stood there spinning, it did NOT labor at all in starting the wheels to spin.  They took off spinning like a rocket (the wheels) without a microbe of hesitation.  To be more exact, the wheels began turning with my NCE Powercab on a speed setting of 1 of 28, and the wheels started spinning slowly and increased with higher settings just like it would if it were moving.  Tons of torque, no traction.

It also appears the engine gets power from all 3 engine main axles and both tender trucks, 7 axles in all, and will run with any single engine axle in contact with the rails.  The steering truck does not seem to have power.  I determined this by sliding paper under the axles and seeing if the engine would run.  It ran with all tender axles isolated from the tracks and any combination of engine axles isolated from the track.  It also ran with the only the tender in contact with the track and all engine axles isolated.  

It may be possible for Bullfrog Snot on one engine axle to really improve this engine.  Maybe Bachmann can tell us if traction enhancers or weight will help.  Don't know where to add the weight though, as adding it to the tender would just be more drag, and there's like no room in the loco for anything else.

[botangles]

This weekend will add some weight and possibly apply Bullfrog Snot, trying to pull more cars. Also I should add it will make the 2% grade with 6 cars if I take a run at it. But stopped on the grade it just spins. Really appreciate all the great ideas and advice. Thanks, Bo.

[Tom M.]

Another trick you can try is to add thin lead sheet weight to the drive mechanism's base plate on the underside of the loco.  I've done this for clients who wanted to get more tractive effort out of the modern American 4-4-0 and this 2-6-0.  This also places the weights directly over/under the drive wheels yielding maximum affect while not throwing off the loco's balance and center of gravity.

If you look at the loco as it stands on the rails, you will see that the underframe sets relatively high off the rail head.  I take sheet lead (available from A-Line) and cut it into strips matching the width of the base plate.  I then cut it to the proper length.  You then need to carefully remove the base plate and use it to mark the screw hole locations on the weight.  You then need to drill out the marked locations to create pass-through holes with a diameter slightly larger than the heads of the base plate mounting screws.  These holes are necessary to allow you to remove the base plate once the weight is affixed for future lubrication and maintenance.

At this point, reinstall the loco's base plate.  Then carefully align and install the weight to the base plate.  I like to use a couple of small dabs of vinyl caulking to do this.  Make sure the holes are properly aligned over the screw holes and don't allow any of the caulk to foul the holes either.  The last caution is to not use sheet lead that is too thick.  You want to make sure you still have clearance for grade crosssings, guard rails, switch frogs and so on.

Two other tricks that I have used are to place additional weight on the back of the smoke box door. And to add weight to the floor of the cab.  For example, the cab floor behind the firebox on the Modern American is lower than the floor beneath the engineer and fireman seats.  I fill this area with sheet lead and then use Squadran Green putty to hide the side and rear edge.  Once painted black, no one will notice the change.

If all else fails, add a second loco to the consist.  That's what many prototype railroads had to do based on the terrain.   For example, the Western Maryland's H-9 2-8-0 locos were real brutes with tractive effort of nearly 74,000 pounds.  Two units could easily handle a 60-car train on gentle grades.  However, on the Thomas Subdivision's Black Fork Grade, each H-9 was reduced to pulling 5 loaded 50 ton hoppers.  To get around this, the railroad had to assign mid-train and end of train helpers to get over the grade.

Good luck,

Tom

[utdave]

on alot of my steam locos    i have added a powered box car.   i use a old tyco  gut the bottom and use a bachmann F loco for the power unit with DCC from favoritespot at a low bid .    just need some trimming so the drive wheels clear  does take away some of the box car appearance  but when you add like 15 box cars behind  its hard to notice.  also i powered a tender off of a old bachmann steam loco  and add a extra tender.       with the extra power  your steam locos run alot better  and still look realistic .      i have the 4-8-4  american freedom  pulling 16 cars of tyco spirit of 76 box cars  one is powered  to pull those plastic wheel, horn coupled  cars at ease  up my 2% sloop.  i like this one because the extra powered unit is a little slower on take off and lets the steam spin its wheels.     also on some little steams i use those ore cars/excursion cars or old time passager which you can get more of without using extra power   my 0-6-0 bachmann can handle 10 ore cars  silver series ez over the grade.     this is how i handled alot pulling promblems.        and when you hook up a long train like 60 cars or longer the powered box car towards the back   or middle gives that train with your diesel locos  up front like a real train  think how long you could make one  just add where needed.          this is how i handle some of my issues  my grade has curves and some places it just dont like and i like running many trains on the same track on the same time and i never get a stalled one even at very low speeds.   DAve

[rbryce1]

I like that!!!

Now that's an idea Bachmann should pick up on and run with....Powered Rolling Stock.

My 0-6-0 can't get out of it's own shadow without help!

I really like the powered box car and the powered ore car.  I'm also thinking of a powered  hopper and a powered caboose with full lighting.  All you need to do is add them to a consist and insert them anywhere in your train.

[utdave]

i havent found a way with ore cars   but i use those short ones they are light and can add more.    but my powered tender is impressive and its very acceptable.  just hard to find them on ebay and at the right price.    go ahead and build one its not very hard at all  if you make a mistake  remember its just a tyco and do another shell  i do got it down for me .   how to keep shells on locos   i drill 2 small holes caty corner towards the middle  and use railroad nails inserted in loco and snip off the access to close to flush of the outside   expand the plastic boxcar and it goes right over  the nails until in the hole of car.    on some old locos like f7  from tyco and bachmann  i do the same they fit nice with some shaving here and there also and the old stuff becomes new with Dcc  sharks work to but dont have a front coupler   just use the same thing but with kadee couplers in plastic shell.  once you mastered that then you can think what else you can do     DAve

[Jerrys HO]

rb

check out this thread from one of our finest!

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,18042.0.html

Jerry