Fathers Day First Train Help Needed

[cowboyup]

I want to start off small($500) on a G scale outdoor train for me and my son to grow over the years. The intent is to have a multi line couple thousand dollar set up down the road. I live in Texas where we get little snow....Yet it get pretty hot. What are my best options from train & Track?

[Doneldon]

Cowboy-

At your budget there is nothing which will perform better than Bachmann's large-scale trains. They are durable and well modelled. You must spend a great deal more money to get large scale equipment which may be better but, IMHO, not enough better to justify the hugely greater cost.

There is, however, one problem with Bachmann's large scale products: the track. The track which comes with the sets cannot be used out of doors because UV will destroy it in only a short while. Please note, however, that Bachmann has begun to offer track which is suitable for outside use. I haven't seen or used any of it myself but I imagine it is just fine. I don't especially like sectional track, so I would consider hand laying my rails on cut ties or looking for track which comes in longer sections than just a foot. Also, avoid brass because it will oxidize outside and make it very difficult to operate your trains. Remember that you'll need a suitable base for your track, especially with freeze and thaw cycles where you live. You can dig a shallow trench and use finely crushed rock as ballast, as the real railroads do, pour a concrete roadbed with ballast on top for appearance or mount your tracks on treated wood risers which extend below the frost line where you live. Increasingly, outdoor modelers are mounting their tracks on raised rights-of-way so it isn't necessary to bend over all the time. This can be along the edge of a raised garden or flower bed, along a fence or atop some hills and mountains built expressly for the purpose.

I suggest that you get a book or two on garden railroading to help you visualize what you want to do.

By the way, in mentioning your budget above, I in no way intended to suggest that your planned budget is inadequate to build a good large-scale outdoor layout. On the contrary, you can have a terrific set-up. But you won't be able to work in locomotives which cost many hundreds or even thousands of dollars each. Isn't it great that you don't need them to have a nice layout?
                                                                                                                                                 -- D

[GN.2-6-8-0]

All good points above" there are major manufacturers that make track in four foot sections with UV protected plastic ties LGB and Aristo come to mind.
Another thought that many of the outdoor railroaders are are converting
to nowadays is battery power for their motive power; no worry about wiring' cleaning dirty track etc.

[cowboyup]

So would y'all suggest I go with LGB? Any sets you would suggest?

I am a bit confused....Is there something larger than G Scale......What is the best for outdoors? My son is only 2, So I could easily see going north of $10,000 in 10 years

[RAM]

Cowboyup,  You need to reread the two post.  The first said just don't use the cheap Bachmann track.  He said that they now have track that will stand up.  I know LGB is good track.  I would not leave rolling stock on the layout when not is use.  Many people have track that they can just run it into a building for storage.  battery power is the way to go.  Do a google search on garden railroads.

[Doneldon]

So would y'all suggest I go with LGB? Any sets you would suggest?

I am a bit confused....Is there something larger than G Scale......What is the best for outdoors? My son is only 2, So I could easily see going north of $10,000 in 10 years

Cowboy-

The short answers to your two questions are "no" and "yes." But you deserve some elaboration.

LGB products are very good quality and they have been making lots of US prototypes in recent years. And let's face it, most people enjoy what they are familiar with. LGB, however, is very expensive and you won't find it discounted to anything like the degree to which most US manufactured trains are discounted. LGB was the first company into large scale in a big way. Accordingly, the scale is strongly associated with LGB and there are people who will only buy LGB products. I think that's foolish because there are lots of other quality large scale trains, including Bachmann. I would never suggest that anyone purchase everything from just one manufacturer because it's impossible for one manufacturer to offer everything or to do everything best. I think that it's best to cherry pick items from various manufacturers, always keeping in mind the inherent value of the various items and the price. I believe that formula points to Bachmann's large scale trains as perhaps the best ones with which to try garden railroading. And I am not saying that because this is the Bachmann board. It's what I truly think.

As for whether there are larger scales than G, well, as I said the short answer is "yes." But you must understand that G-scale, unlike the other common scales (e.g., O, HO, S, N), isn't really just one scale. "Scale" refers to the degree of miniaturization from reality to the model. Other model railroad scales have just one degree of miniaturization. For example, HO is a 1:87 proportion and O is 1:48. G-scale, however, includes every proportion from 1:32 to 1:17. Specifically, there are 1:32, 1:29, 1:25, 1:24, 1:20.3 and 1:17. The trains get larger as the proportions get smaller. What ties it all together is that all of these scales are designed to run on just a single track gauge (gauge being the distance between the rails, 4'8.5" for the real thing). So ... some G-scale trains are larger than other G-scale trains. The 1:32 scale trains run on this track (called one gauge) and are proportional to full size trains running on full size track. The rest are various degrees of narrow gauge trains.

And there are bigger models yet, right on up to 1:1, or twelve-inches-to-the-foot. Yes, that means full size but still models. Those trains are quite uncommon, of course, due to their great cost. But they do exist. And there are several large sizes of models with rails large enough to hold trains which are themselves large enough to hold people. Many, probably most, of those are powered by live steam. They are in every way faithful, operating models of real trains. But for what we think of as model trains, G-scale is the largest. It is also the last scale which uses electricity for power almost exclusively. The larger trains are generally steam, as mentioned, but they may also be gasoline powered or use on-board battery power.

Many large-scale trains (the clearer name for G-scale) use track power, the same as virtually all smaller models. Some use on-board battery power. Some operate with DC, some with DCC and some with radio control, either dedicated model train control or adapted radio airplane control. You can use any form of power with any form of control. Every aspect has both assets and liabilities. For example, battery power eliminates the problems of cleaning track and electrical pick-up, but provides limited operating time. DCC is the most versatile but it requires track pick-up or a system which marries DCC with radio control. (Note that radio DCC only connects throttles with a command station; it does not send signals directly to trains.)

Incidentally, Bachmann has a small line of large scale trains (I know that sounds a bit like an oxymoron) called "Little Big Haulers." (ditto) You can see it on this site. It's kind of a playful take on model railroading and is especially suitable for the youngest model rails. You might find these trains especially appropriate for your two-year-old son.
                                                                                                     -- D

[cowboyup]

WOW thanks for all the information. It sounds like I should look at battery. I need a train and track that will take the Texas heat...Any suggestions?

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

I need a train and track that will take the Texas heat...Any suggestions?

Post this exact question in large scale.
And maybe use search for finding the recent posts on good batteries.
Or look around, there where some good ones over the last few months.

[Doneldon]

WOW thanks for all the information. It sounds like I should look at battery. I need a train and track that will take the Texas heat...Any suggestions?

Cowboy-

I don't think the Texas heat will be too big of a problem as long as you leave a little slop in your rails to allow for expansion. That should take care of any kinks that might otherwise develop. I do believe this is another justification for staying away from sectional track, however, because the tight connection between the roadbeds makes it pretty hard to allow expansion room unless you file or cut tiny bits of rail away, a nuisance job at best. I'm not sure just how much of a difference it would make but aging, faded, light-colored ties and a light colored ballast will collect less heat  then will dark-colored track components. That may keep rail temperatures a little lower and reduce expansion somewhat. I'd suggest that you do some testing of your components but the differences over just a few feet of track would likely be too small to measure. So I'd just go with weathered ties and maybe light gray granite or limestone ballast.

I wouldn't worry at all about your trains' abilities to tolerate heat. If you keep them under cover between operating sessions, which is STRONGLY advised, the heat and sun shouldn't matter. Keeping them protected from the elements has an additional benefit: Trains kept locked away from the sun are also locked away from people who may wish to borrow them on a long-term basis without permission. Unfortunately, vandalism and theft are real issues for garden railroaders. You can protect your rolling stock by running your trains through a small door into a garage or basement, or into a purpose built shed. This allows you to leave your trains on the tracks which is more convenient than handling them twice for every operating session, reduces breakage due to handling and  allows you to "automatically" recharge batteries. It also ensures that they are protected if severe weather blows through the area. Many garden railroaders also move buildings into a protected location to protect them from theft and damage.

I cannot authoritatively speak about outdoor batteries as I don't have much experience with them. I would certainly keep them away from heat when they are not in use and I would use a charger which cuts out once the batteries are recharged so they aren't damaged by overcharging. I would hope that chargers made for garden railroads would have the cut-off feature.
                                                                                                                                                     -- D

[RAM]

LGB will take just about anything.  Cold, snow, heat, rain. however snakes will derail it.  I am not into G scale, but I did sell it, before the hobby shop I filled in for shut down.