Compatability question

[Striker1945]

Hey all,

A guy in my grad program at UNC Greensboro is getting out of the railroading hobby due to life getting in the way. He is selling many of his locomotives and rolling stock and is giving me a fair shot a Rivarossi NYC Hudson with coaches. Would the Rivarossi locomotive work on my mainly Bachmann layout? Would it look odd among my other locomotives and rolling stock?
I ask because with models I've bought kits that were say, "1:48 scale" yet do not fit in AT ALL with other models of the same scale, just a different brand.
Also could the locomotive be converted to work with the Bachmann DCC system? It is currently a DC locomotive.

Thanks a million!
-Striker1945

[rogertra]

In a word, yes, it will work.

On my Great Eastern Railway I have locos from Bachmann Spectrum, Atlas, P2K, P1K, Athearn Genesis and IHC clones  Some were easy to convert to DCC, other less so depending on how old they were.  See the links in my sig.

As to whether it will fit, that depends.

Do you model one era or do you just like to run trains regardless of era?  In other words, does the NYC engine suit your era?

Do you model the NYC?   If not, ask yourself the question, "What's an NYC loco doing on my railroad?"  Or don't you care?

It all depends on how realistic, or not, you want to be.

There are models of railroads and railroad models, the two are not the same. 

Cheers

Roger T.

[Doneldon]

Stryker-

It's impossible to say whether your friend's trains will "fit in" with what you have already because you didn't give us enough information to know what you have now. Also, there are at least two kinds of fitting in.

The more important of these is scale. If your existing trains are 1:48 scale you have O-scale trains and you should stick with just one scale. Note that it is possible to have O-scale trains which will run on HO-scale track! That would mean you have O-scale narrow gauge trains which are reduced in size by a factor of 1:48 but use narrower track which just happens to be the same width as regular HO-scale (1:87) track. You can certainly run both O and narrow gauge O on the same layout but not on the same rails. There is track which is called dual-gauge, which means there are three rails (not like Lionel has three rails for electrical purposes) and both O and narrow gauge O run on the same track. In that case, the regular O runs on the outside rails and the narrow gauge O runs on the middle rail and the rail which is the farther from it. However, dual-gauge model railroading can make for some pretty sophisticated track laying and wiring so it is not something I would ever encourage someone who is new to the hobby to try.

The other way in which trains can fit in or not is period, that is, the time, place and (possibly) real railroad you are interested in. In that regard, you probably wouldn't want to run a steam train from the 1930s and 40s on a model railroad where everything else was the latest word in diesel locomotives and container cars. I suppose you could run the 20^th Century as an occasional excursion train but it would look hopelessly out of place as a regular train with your modern, high-tech equipment. If you want to run the NYC passenger equipment in period you would be looking at the earliest days of diesel railroading, when most locomotives were still steam, and on up to the transition era when steam was being rapidly replaced by diesel. That would mean up to the late 1940s and early 50s. Yes, there were still some steam engines used after that time, even into the 60s and 70s, but they were anachronistic and only kept around in the event that extra motive power would be needed for helper service or to pinch hit for a diesel with the flu.

So ... you need trains that fit in both scale and time period. Just in case I haven't totally confused you already, I'll throw in one more little wrinkle: It's your model railroad and you can do absolutely anything you feel like doing. It's not generally very practical to run two scales of railroad together (like mixing O and HO) but it has been done, and mixing historical periods happens all of the time. There are even model rails who have complete sets of trains from different eras; when they want to switch from the 1940s to the 1980s they just swap all of the trains and maybe a few buildings and vehicles and they're set to go.

Please keep us up to date with your progress and decisions. We all get a good bit of vicarious enjoyment from others' model railroads.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              -- D

[Striker1945]

Hah so I guess I should've been a little more clear in my post. Forgive me, I am a wee bit bleary eyed after reading history all day.

I do run HO trains, the 1:48 scale was in referring to  WWII models and such. I was attempting to illustrate my question through means of a similar circumstance. I created a Kursk diorama with 1:48 scale vehicles abut a two years ago and purchased the models from different manufacturers. This created an issue where some of my Stug Assault guns looked off in regards to size (one was noticeably bigger than the other) and thus the 1:48 scale of the entire diorama was thrown off.

As for my trains I only run HO, O trains are too big in my opinion. I was just wondering if Rivarossi manufacturing would have the model physically looking different than a Bachmann model. I know Bachmann doesn't make NYC Hudson's, but MTH does. Was also wondering if Rivarossi was a good manufacturer of model trains.

Period wise it will fit in with what I have planned. I plan to build a layout which exists from 1950-1959 and models three distinct railways, the NYC, PRR, and N&W. The hope is to combine different aspects of the three companies different regions to create a layout which epitomizes the last days of steam operations in America while also showing the rise of diesel locomotives as well. I do plan to purchase a 4-8-4 Niagara at a future date because those were also purchased later (1940's me thinks even post-war) though were relied on for heavier freight trafficking purposes.

As things currently sit I have a N&W Class J, two PRR GG1's, NYC F7A+B, PRR F7A+B, and a NYC RS-3. As far as I know all of those locomotives could have been/were operating in the 1950's on their respective railways. If memory serves the Hudson ran until 1957 when the NYC stopped its steam operations all together though I could be wrong.
Im thinking I'll pickup the loco and coaches. The coaches are bachmann heavyweights in great condition (my friend recently redid the interiors and wiring for lighting). The loco seems to be in good condition too. I've seen it run a few times and it hasn't had any issues I've noticed. I think his price of 100$ also is pretty fair considering the whole lot is five coaches and one loco.
Will post pics over the next few days if time permits.

Again sorry for the confusion, I spent most of my day reading about how religion affected Virginia's secessionist movements in the fall/ winter of 1860 and the spring of 1861!
-Striker

[union pacific 4014]

i have a Rivarossi fef-3 4-8-4 #844 i run with bachmann loco and with ihc locos  and model power locos so yes it will run fine with bachmann locos

[Doneldon]

Striker-

OK. Yes, a Rivarrossi locomotive will play just fine with the vast majority of HO trains, including everything from the US model railroad companies (though nothing much is made here anymore).

Is your Hudson a Dreyfus streamlined model? That's an extraordinary locomotive to look at and it did the job for the Central very well. The Central had wonderful Hudsons. Many people consider the non-streamlined J3a Hudsons to be the best looking Hudsons of all. I can't honestly argue with that although I also admire the Santa Fe Hudsons which had very similar lines to the non-streamlined Central locos.

The NYC dieselized the 20th Century early on. I suppose there were occasions when steam pulled the train after dieselization but it would have been very unusual in the 1950s. Still, as I mentioned, it's your railroad and you can do whatever you want. There are folks who get very agitated about anachronisms or non-prototypical operations but I consider that to be their problem, not mine. I mean, I don't do outrageous stuff but if I want to pull my 1939 Super Chief with F7s, I will.

A hundred bucks sounds like a great price for a Hudson in good condition. Toss in the Bachmann Hwts and you've got quite a deal.
                                                                                                                                                                                                   -- D

[ebtnut]

Note that the older Rivarossi models used wheels with very deep flanges.  They were built to European standards rather the U.S. RP-25.  If you run them on standard EZ Track with Code 100 rail they will be fine.  The issue you noted about the WWII models is that there are at least 3 distinct scale ratios in Europe for "O Scale" models:  1:50, 1:48, and 1:45.  You need to read the fine print on the boxes to see exactly which scale the kits/models are. 

[ACY]

I have a Dreyfuss Hudson, I carefully weighed all the options and decided to purchase the Broadway Limited model since it is Brass whereas the Mike's Train House model is not made of Brass and more expensive although it does have lots of fancy sounds and a working smoke unit as does the BLI loco. I for many years was tempted to get the Rivarossi version but opted not to since the newer locomotives had more features available. The Rivarossi passenger cars also need a bit of work to get them up to spec, including adding weight for sure, and interiors and lighting as desired, as well as possibly replacing the trucks and for sure replacing the wheelsets. Then you need to do the work required to body mount Kadee couplers.
The MTH passenger cars seen (well sort of seen) in the photo below need no work and are very nice scale models with interiors, lighting and lots of detail.

[Irbricksceo]

Just an interesting tidbit regarding the 20th century Limited, It was pulled by an electric Locomotive for a short part of its run, through the tunnels near Penn Station IIRC, as Steam Locomotives weren't allowed to go though under their own power as the smoke made the air unbreathable. Most tunnels in those days were ventilated, I do not know why this one needed electric Locomotives for that section as opposed to proper ventilation, but alas, that was how it was done. This is also why the "EL" Locomotives (the elevated Rails) had the ability to turn off their smoke/steam for a short time, while they went through the subway tunnels.

[ebtnut]

The NYC electification was spurred by the passing of a smoke abatement ordinance by the city of New York in 1903, effective in 1908.  This may have helped spur the third and final iteration of Grand Central Terminal, which included the electification of the line south of Harmon (some 32 miles).  At Harmon the electrics were switched with steam and later diesels for the trip west.  This same smoke abatement ordinance also meant that Penn Station would also need to be electrified as well as the New Haven.  Originally, the PRR did their steam to electric switch at a place called Manhattan Transfer, out near Newark.  Later of course the electric lines got extended to Philly, DC and Harrisburg. 

[Irbricksceo]

Fascinating, I've often wondered why that stretch mandated electrification, I knew it was 30 or so miles, but not why.

100 for the rivarossi hudson plus Bachmann Heavyweights is a great deal, I'd take it in a heartbeat. You will need code 100 track though since Rivarossi flanges are deeper than code 83 will allow.

[Doneldon]

You know, I like the Dreyfuss Hudson -- a lot -- but for me it's the streamlined loco for
the Empire State Express that really makes my heart flutter.
                                                                                             -- D

[Irbricksceo]

That one is quite handsome isn't it. I don't know of any manufacturer of them though. I'd love it if Bachmann put out a Hudson, streamlined or no, simply because I want one and the MTH/BLI Models are like 500+ Apiece.

The NYC and PRR Had some great Locomotives. What I haven't seen is a Milwaukee Hiwatha Atlantic or Pacific.

[Striker1945]

I know Walthers has a Hiawatha line with some nice looking coaches though the trademark engine is nowhere to be seen.

Fox Valley Models makes what looks to be a very nice set of the 1935 Hiawatha; the one EVERYONE WANTS!!!
Site link: http://www.foxvalleymodels.com/hoscalepassenger.html
And here's a youtube video with said set in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMP7CcLGfGE
Though the set is 600$ 

Hope that helps,
Striker