G Scale

[NarrowMinded]

I have to agree with Bill, I buy what ever track I can find cheap.
I Mix what ever I have and never give the tie spacing a thought and no one has ever noticed or atleast never mentioned it, they are too busy watching the trains to care.

Honestly I do not own a single peice of track bought new, its all second hand and I have few hundred feet atleast.

Less money on track = more money for trains 

Nm-Jeff

[doug c]

Also 'american' vs 'european' track    If you walk on the 'american' track there is more of a chance of the rails popping from the ties ! 

That is why I stuck mainly with the euro unless used 'american' was up for sale at a decent price point ....

Also for more backgrd on the track,  both proto (?)  and G, chk out this page of George's (and then beyond since you're starting out)
http://girr.org/girr/tips/tips4/track_tips.html

nite,
doug c

[RRRookie]

Thanks to all for the great advice, I went ahead and ordered the "Virginia & Truckee set thus allowing for year round train operation. I'm dissapointed in the fact the engine only made about 8 laps before in stopped working. I set it up outside on brass track (didn't want to use the track that came with the set). I didn't realize how critical the leveling factor was. It had only one spot where the engine struggled on, about 6 sections of 5' curve track. The motor still runs but sounds like the gears are stripped. Truly it was 8 laps at the most.  I knew I would have to fix it but I didnt think it would damage a brand new engine so quickly. The grade was about 3 or 4 inches on the half curve, are G guage engines (4-6-0) that delicate. Not dissuaded just disappointed.

[Kevin Strong]

If you're talking about 5' diameter track (2.5' radius), that grade is too steep. A 4" rise in half a circle of 5' diameter track is 4 1/4%. The commonly recommend maximum grade for relatively straight track is 4%. When you throw a curve as tight as 5' diameter into the mix, that compounds the grade and really bogs the locomotive down. That's going to strain the gears on any locomotive.

You'll definitely want to do one of two things (if not both). First off, level the track as much as possible. With curves that tight, I wouldn't go any steeper than 2% at the absolute most. Second, if you can fit wider curves, do so. The usual rule is to fit the widest curves in the space that you can. While the 4-6-0 and cars can fit around a 5' diameter curve, they do much better on an 8' diameter (4' radius) curve.

Bummer about your loco's gears, but they're at least an easy fix. The trick will be to re-engineer your track so you don't repeat the injury.

Later,

K

[Loco Bill Canelos]

RRR,

If you just bought it brand new from an authorized seller and have the receipt, then the warranty applies at no charge during the first year.  Contact the service department for instructions.

Your loco should not have stripped the gears in 8 laps even under the bad conditions you have.  In most cases the wheels will slip or the power supply circuit breaker will trigger before the gears will strip.  If you pressed down on the loco to get better traction or to prevent wheel slip that only aggravates the situation and can cause the damage.  Kevin is exactly right about the strain, you will need to reduce the grade, and try to level the track on wider curves.  I suspect the tight curves are the biggest problem even more tha the steep grade, but the heavy grade is definitely part of the problem. Carefully laid track will reduce strain on your loco.  I use a 4-6-0 loco on a back and forth automated track with a 3.5 foot grade, but with only two sections of 10 foot radius. It has worked perfectly for years, but I only use three log cars and a caboose.   I have six 4-6-0's some 14 years old, and have never had a failure.  Yours should not have failed that quickly based on what you are telling us.

Shame about the problem, but don't feel too bad, we all make rookie mistakes and I have made more than my share over the years.

While it is an easy repair, I would at least contact service about warranty repair.

Bill

[RRRookie]

Thanks Kevin and Bill will definately get track level and try to increase radius. One more thing before the gears stripped I noticed that the rear trucks (back wheels) of the tender would derail everytime the engine came out of the turn. This only happened when pulling the passengers cars. As soon as the tender strightened out it would derail. I'm sure it was the tight radius of the turn, but the curve for the indoor track was tighter than 5'. 4.5' to be exact. This was also on the oppisite of the incline a much more level area. Would adding ballast to the tender help?

[Joe Zullo]

I use a spell check,  I'm honestly blaming it for doing something only Kevin Strong could do , turning a gondola into a lagonda, and while on the subject of gondolas before I started with model trains a gondola for me was only the beautifill and pohivitivly expensive, extreamly romantic Venetian canal gondolier driven canoo that my wife and I did not ride, instead we saw Venece from the  Vaporetto, the venetian canal public transport , also romantic very cheap , sounds like a chu chu train and you dont feel like you are throwing your money straight into the canal, like the few turists that go for the gondola. Why a log carring train car has the same name is beyond me.   Although I suppose there is a remote resemblance.

BTW,

Although the train car and the Venetian boat are spelled the same way they are pronounced differently.

The train car is gon do' la and the boat is gon'dola. Notice the accents are on different syllables.  

[Loco Bill Canelos]

RRR

Your rear tender trucks should not derail pulling the passenger cars if the track is correctly laid.  Extra weight in the tender just makes the drag on the motor and gears worse.

I have given your situation some thought, I am pretty convinced the tracklaying is your most likely culprit. Track laying has to be done very carefully especially using a model steam engine as opposed to a model diesel engine.  With a steam engine of any brand the long wheelbase, even with blind drivers in the center, creates side force and binding when going around even well laid tight curves. When laying track on a flat surface it is extremely important to make sure there are no kinks in the rails at the joiners, joiners are tight, and the track must also be level from side to side. If the track is not level side to side and  or there are kinks at the joints,  drivers and trucks easily derail when going thru a curve or running through the kink.  

When grades are added several new factors and forces come into play.   You must be very careful to insure your transition from flat to grades is extremely gentle. Too steep and the pony truck is forced up and can foul the chassis.  As the loco continues the drivers then go up forcing down the drawbar often causing derailments and problems with the tender trucks.  Reverse problem occurs transitioning from grade to flat.

Now when we add grade transition with an immediate tight curve, you get double trouble because now both forces are acting against you.

Next with grade transition and immediate tight curves and the track is not level side to side through the transition points and tight curves you have triple trouble and the drivers and trucks on cars will often lift on one side at the curve point and derail.

I hope all this will not deter you from having fun with the hobby.  This much I know poor track is the number one reason why many I know over the years leave the hobby.  It is definitely not fun if your train derails constantly when you are running them especially with guests, model diesels are much more forgiving especially those with four wheel truck, as the shorter truck wheel base tends to track better.  Six wheel diesel trucks are less forgiving even when the manufacturer include built in sideplay on the center wheel set, but they are more forgiving than with steamers.

I can't tell how many times my friends have brought me their steam engine asking me to fix it because it derails all the time. They often cuss out the manufacturer for making a shoddy product.  I check the spacing between the wheels to check gauge, find that OK, then put it on my well maintained track and it never derails.  They are shocked and say "how did you fix it?"   Now I ask them to please call me first so I can I go out and troubleshoot their track.  I usually see what poor condition it is in, joints not tight, crooked joints, track not level, bad grades and transitions...... it is no wonder they are not having fun.  Sometimes they say it's not my track,  after all my GP-40 diesel doesn't derail as often.  So we get the diesel out and sure enough it stays on the rails better than the steamer, but you can see it wobbling side to side on the bad track.  I try to be gentle, but in the end say as nicely as possible "it the darn track".   After some leveling and tightening and smoothing the steamers start running better without derailments. it is then  they become believers!!  

If you lay your track well, right from the beginning you will never regret it.  It must be well ballasted and maintained and re leveled from time to time to continue to function well.   Outdoor railroading exposed your layout to mother nature.  Mother nature is often not nice to the full size trains, so you can imaging what 3 inches of rain in a short time can do to your small in size outdoor layout.  I always suspect my track first when I star having derailments.  Sometimes it looks great till you get the level out and stat checking!!

A walnut falling from forty feet can damage a plastic locomotive or piece of rolling stock,  but that is for some other discussin!!!  misspelling intended

Hope this helps you get a good start!!

Bill

[RRRookie]

WOW thanks for the wealth of knowledge Bill. It took me awhile to learn how to lay track in HO and get it wright. I finally learned to stop being in a hurry to get the trains running and take my time and do it right. Now my HO trains can run for hours with out derailing. Don't worry I won't give up, I'll apply your advice, do some more research and get back at it. I'm heading to a couple of train shows one here in Cahrleston SC this coming weekend, the other in Myrtle Beach the following weekend. I know there is one in Atlanta coming up but I can't make that one. Anyway,Thanks again Bill. 

[Stryker]

Hi. Stryker here,
Just a thought w/regards Your outdoor layout:  Have You ever considered building Your track Layout on a raised bed?  It will make it easier for You to get to, upkeep and repair.  There are several article that have been published in various magazines ove the years.

Hope this helps.

Cheers to all,
Stryker

[trainstrainstrains]

More  on gondola
Etymology: mid 16th century: from Venetian Italian, from Rhaeto-Romanic gondolà 'to rock, roll.' 
Etymology: Italian dialect (Venetian), probably from Middle Greek kontoura small vessel.