Pacific Flyer 0-6-0 loco spins wheels on incline. Better traction suggestions?

Started by alexm, December 10, 2018, 11:31:41 AM

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alexm

Hello all,
Newbie here with a basic question as the title says...
I purchased a set of Pacific Flyer, some extra track and a pier set and I did a figure 8 with an overpass and the steam loco 0-6-0 is spinning wheels and stalls on the incline with anything more than the tender and the lightest car (red car) behind it. It works great on the level track, even with all cars. The incline is determined by the piers, one at each connection as per instructions. The pier set is a Bachmann Trains 14 PC. E-Z TRACK Graduated Pier Set. Any ideas on how to improve traction?
Thanks!

Len

Almost all of the commercially available pier sets create grades that are too steep, greater than 3%, for smaller locos. Even with traction tires, they often don't have the weight to keep from slipping with any cars attached.

There are a few options:

1. If you only plan to run small, light, locos, keep your layout relatively flat.

2. Replace the pier set with Woodland Scenics Inclined Risers. 2% would be best, 3% might work.
https://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/RISERS/page/1

3. If you have the space, get another 14 piece pier set, and make your own intermediate risers to bring the grade incline down. Measure the height difference between adjacent piers, and divide that measurement by 2. Make shims equal to the resulting value, and place under one set of piers. Use unshimmed pier at the start of the grade, then alternate shimmed and unshimmed piers until you reach the elevation you want. You should end up with one set of the tallest piers left over.

4. If you want to use what you've got, get a heavier, 6-wheel, all wheel drive, diesel for a locomotive.

Len

If at first you don't succeed, throw it in the spare parts box.

rich1998

Hi alexm
Welcome.

What Len said is all part of model railroading.
If you ever go to DCC, you can double head locos but the loco front coupler has to work. No ideas about the 0-6-0 front coupler and if the loco can be converted. I had two many years ago and gave them away to someone here.
Good luck. As the Bach-Man would say, Have Fun.

Rich

alexm

Len and Rich, thanks for the great suggestions.
I think solution #3 will work for me as I noticed others suggested the same thing on Amazon reviews for the pier set. The incline with only one set is too much for the 0-6-0 I have. I am buying a second set of piers and will add shims.

Len, about the #4 suggestion: you said a heavier 6 wheel will be better... I thought my 0-6-0 is a 6 wheel drive... It looks like the 3 axles are moving together making it an all 6 wheel drive.
Rich, about coupling locos, it might not work with the one I have as the front coupler looks like it's not functional, no moving parts as the ones for cars connections (E-Z Mate couplers), but good idea.

Alex

Len

Quote from: alexm on December 10, 2018, 02:04:01 PM
Len, about the #4 suggestion: you said a heavier 6 wheel will be better... I thought my 0-6-0 is a 6 wheel drive... It looks like the 3 axles are moving together making it an all 6 wheel drive.

Alex, what I suggested was a 6-axle, all wheel drive, diesel. That would actually be 12 wheels, 6 on the front power truck, 6 on the rear power truck. And even with that, there would be an upper limit on what it would pull up a standard 14-piece pier set compared to level track.

Len
If at first you don't succeed, throw it in the spare parts box.

rich1998

If you want to stick with Bachmann, look at the catalog and Diagram pages. You can see what they look like internally on the diagram page. I have seen some brands with flywheels and more weight. No idea about all Bachmann diesels. I only have a couple 44 ton and 70 ton.
Be advised if it says DCC on board, it comes with a decoder and it will run on a power pack. Some do come with DCC Ready which usually means a DC adapter is plugged in and can run on DC out of the box but this is usually straight from the factory. Your mileage may vary.
No idea your level of experience.

Rich


jward

Alex,
as others have mentioned, the Bachmann pier set as designed is far too steep for many locomotives. The actual grade that results is 5.6%, above my personal limit of 4%, and above the recommendations of others here.

Upgrades drastically affect pulling power. On a 4% grade, for example, a locomotive will only pull 1/6 of what it will pull on level track. Thus, the need to reduce the steepness of the upgrade.

It is such a shame the pier set is designed the way it is. Looking at the layout as shown in the catalog, if the upgrade were evenly distributed around the figure 8 you could get the grade down to about 3% without modifying the track plan. 3% is equal to about 1/4" rise per track section, and it takes twelve sections to get from beneath the underpass to the top of the overpass.


That said, if you use two sets of piers, you are going to do this i would suggest buying 4 more straight tracks, and placing two on each side of the figure 8. It doesn't matter where in the curve you place them, but the two straaights MUST be 180 degrees apart on the curve (opposite each other) for everything to line up. That will give you enought track sections to use all 14 piers.
Jeffery S Ward Sr
Pittsburgh, PA

alexm

Yes, I already have a large figure 8 with plenty of space to double up the piers.
Thanks!

alexm

I got my 2nd pier set and I reduced the slope as suggested and traction improved quite a bit.
I also managed to couple the two locomotives I have together and to add to the fun I took some of the cars apart and noticed they have metal ballast (metal plates) and removed some to make them lighter. Now I have a setup with 2 locomotives, 2 tenders and 5 cars that are climbing the slope just fine!

Thanks for all the help!

RAM

Those metal plates are there for a good reason.  Yes it may the car lighter, but you will also have more derailments.

rich1998

As Ram said, the plates are there for a good reason. If you have trouble keeping cars on the track, start putting the plates back in.

Rich


Terry Toenges

Good read. They are talking about the Madison and Indianapolis Railroad and it's 5.89% grade at Madison, Indiana. Both videos are worth watching, too. I can imagine living in one of the houses close to the line and hearing the locos struggling up the grade.
There's a link on that first site that leads to the Madison site. - http://www.oldmadison.com/madview2.html
Feel like a Mogul.

Trainman203

The point of posting stuff about the Madison Incline grade was to show what the prototype had to do on grades that we routinely expect our models to negotiate with no issue.  Always pushing the train upgrade was one in particular.

I remember reading many years ago about the Tooele Valley Railroad in Utah, basically a short feeder to a smelter.  It pushed  its trains up a steep grade too, but I can't locate what the gradient actually was.  One account said that it took 3 large modern 2-8-0's to get 17 cars, probably empties, up the hill.

The Missouri-Illinois had one particular grade that required doubling the hill if more than 9 cars were in the train.

And of course there was the famous Saluda grade in North Carolina. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saluda_Grade

I have a 3% on my layout that I often double the hill on, great operating fun!