Compatibility New Annie vs old Chassis

[wraujr]

In one of the pictures you can see the new, larger, more wires plug indicative of a "Gen 7", so if male plug is on cable coming from tender, then the tender is "Gen 7". But the loco does not match the picture on the box's end-cap in terms of gearing, wheel/driver center color, cylinder decoration, etc.  Loco definitely does not match and fairly certain not "Gen 7". Quality eBay listings usually have many more photo showing many more details. Avoid this item.

[Greg Elmassian]

Just by rivet size alone, that has been confirmed as a Gen 7.

I think earlier it was pretty well determined that is not the original box.

My theory is that someone wanted a newer chassis, bought a new Gen 7 at some point, swapped out the chassis and is selling it.

[wraujr]

So it is the original box now containing the original tender and the original loco shell.
But for some unknown reason the original chassis has been removed from the original shell and been replaced by an older version chassis that looks in nearly new condition.

[Greg Elmassian]

seems so, unfortunately, what is being physically offered does not match the box or the description of that item on EVERY other site, including Bachmann.

the seller sells a fair amount of trains vs other stuff, he has sold 157 items, but has 301 feedback entries..

Anyway, good on Mark for ferreting this out.

[Fred2179]

it would not be compatible with the connectors on the loco

It would not.  Interestingly, the photo on the box from eBay shows a lot more wires than I would expect from a regular Annie, and the box says it is p-n-p equipped. The photo of the loco shows a tender with a big plug. (Attached.)
Quite a mystery.

[Greg Elmassian]

That actually makes sense...

The tender is definitely V7.... the loco number and box indicate V7, so those wires should reflect V7 connections...

Now, is it (the motor block and other boards in the loco) actually wired correctly? Who knows?

[Fred2179]

Who knows?

I am curious, so I messaged the seller. He said he'd send some more photos tonight. Also said he's not a train guy so he has no idea what might be problematic.

[Loco Bill Canelos]

Hi All,  At this point I feel the loco and tender are V7.  The V7's first appeared in the 2020 catalog and still appear in the 2025 catalog except for the 91801 Flying Rio Grande.  The 91805 NP&S 1225 Christmas V7 as shown on the box end in the sellers listing checks out with the catalog listings.  The idea that the chassis might have been changed in some way seems virtually impossible since an older chassis would not have compatible connectors with a V7 tender. I say virtually impossible because some one of us might try it just for the hell of it. It will be interesting to see the photos the seller sends to Pete.

Bill 

[Greg Elmassian]

So the unexplained part is the valve gear.

The wires from the chassis to the loco are simple, so I do believe it would be pretty simple to graft an older chassis, since you are only talking motor and power pickup wires.

(Of course the chuff circuit I believe is different, although that brings up an interesting, related subject, the recent realization that replacement chassis come with a board that interfaces to BOTH the traditional chuff cam,and the optical interface... the circuit board supplied with the replacement chassis has TWO sockets, one 2 wire for chuff cam, and one 3 wire for the optical)

So, I think the possibility exists that someone did swap a replacement chassis with different valve gear into a V7... so far the part number on the box only came with the walscherts valve gear, and this one has different valve gear..

Interesting situation.....

[Loco Bill Canelos]

I agree the possibility exists, but makes little sense.  I agree the valve gear question is puzzling.  Having said that it would not be the first time Bachmann used a picture that was not of the actual product. 

I have been following Bachmann Large scale since 1998 and crazier things have happened.  Still hoping Pete can get pictures from the seller. 

[wraujr]

Really need to see a picture of the rear of loco to see what type of connector/cable is present. Since photo shows tender connector unattached, no way to know if even possible to connect. Seller told Fred2179 that he's not really a train guy, so he may not have even tried to connect and run, simply removed from box to take pictures and assumes it all matches and works.

[Greg Elmassian]

well my theory is still a chassis swap:

1. v7 tender for sure, rivets AND you can see the multi pole socket..
2. correct box for the loco shell and tender, again v7
3. looking carefully, you can see the multi pole male connector not plugged into the socket, but there
4. wrong siderods/valve gear

It appears the loco plug is correct, and clearly the tender socket is right.

Was the loco number ever sold under a different road number?

Greg

[Loco Bill Canelos]

My theory is the loco and tender are correctly identified as V7, even tho the valve gear is different than the one shown in the catalog. 

I say this for the following reasons:
I have been studying my database and so far can find no evidence the 1225 road number was used again with the  latest NP&S paint scheme.  The paint scheme on the subject loco was first used in the sets made for Sam's Club.  The idea being to brighten up the red color.  What I do see is the locos were made with both Stephenson and Walshearts valve gear.  I also see many mistakes in the catalog pictures not reflecting the actual item, some involving the valve gear and others the incorrect road number, and some with a different paint scheme on the actual product. 

[Loco Bill Canelos]

Forgot to mention the picture on the box does show the Walshearts valve gear while the loco inside has the Stepenson gear supporting Greg's theory. When the mystery is solved if ever I will so note in my database of Bachmann large Scale items. 

I see the seller has offered $45 off, $370 is an amazing price if my theory is correct. I'm almost tempted to push the button but I would have to repaint it.  $370 is a decent price for a loco with V5 these days. 

Oh the fun of speculating. LOL 

[RailMan63]

Hi, Bill!
He's still asking $415.00 plus shipping.
When did you see it at $370.00?
It's been on my Ebay watch list well before it became a conversation piece here.
It sure is pretty!
I check Ebay listings every day for Big Hauler parts as I'm currently looking for another D&RGW or D&S tender tank in the bumblebee paint scheme.
Best regards,
Mike