News:

Please read the Forum Code of Conduct   >>Click Here <<

Main Menu

ho and 0 gauge track

Started by rwiseha, November 01, 2008, 05:40:52 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

rwiseha

Does anyone know if someone makes a O gauge track with a narrow gauge  rail on it?
I would link to merge the two together.
Thanks

Charlie Mutschler

Are you asking about O scale track designed for dual gauge operation? 

Typical dual gauge track has three rails, one used by both standard an narrow gauge equipment, one gauged for the narrow gauge, and one gauged at 56.5 inches for standard gauge.  That was found in many locations in north America where standard and narrow gauge lines used the same yard, and in some sections of lines used in common by both gauges. 

There are commercial H-O dual gauge track products, including flex track and switches.  I am not aware of any commercial O scale dual gauge track products.  There are several reasons for this.  This is going to be rather long, but I hope it will be helpful. 

MOST O scale modelers use 1.25 inch gauge track for standard gauge.  Most (virtually all) commercial O scale models are built to this gauge.  This is actually a scale five-foot gauge (60 inches) in O scale, not four feet-eight and one half inches (56.5 inches), the actual standard gauge.  The commonly used flange and wheel tread specs for O scale standard gauge models on 1.25 inch gauge track are much larger than actual O scale dimensions scaled from the prototype.  Very few O scale modelers actually model to correct standard gauge in 1/4 inch scale, but there are some people who do this.  They use the correct track gauge and flange and wheel tread dimensions scaled from the prototype.  Obviously, correctly scaled O standard gauge equipment will not run on the 1.25 inch gauge track, and the 5 foot gauge O scale models won't run on the correctly scaled track. 

On3 (O scale models of three foot (36 inch) gauge narrow gauge) runs on .75 inch (three quarter inch) gauge track, and uses flange and wheel tread standards which are much closer to dimensions scaled from the prototype.  Bachmann's On30 models use H-O standard gauge track, which scales out to approximately 31 inches in O scale - close enough to call it On30, and utilize existing H-O scale track with models of O scale narrow gauge equipment.  H-O scale standard gauge wheel flange and tread dimensions are smaller than those of O scale 1.25 inch gauge equipment, and are close enough to the standards used in On3 track to allow some of us to convert Bachmann equipment to On3 fairly simply.  (I converted the On30 Climax to On3 in about 30 minutes). 

What all this brings us to is the basic problem:  Dual gauge track in O scale for O scale narrow gauge (36, 30, or 24 inch) and 1.25 inch gauge for O scale standard gauge presents operational problems.  The flangeways which have to be negotiated by the standard gauge equipment have to be much wider and deeper than those required for the narrow gauge equipment.  Which will result in gaps which can become problems for the narrow gauge - wheels falling into them instead of riding over flange ways at frogs and elsewhere.  Guard rails would have to be too far back from the running rail to work for narrow gauge equipment in order to allow 1.25 inch standard gauge equipment to track through them. 

People who model in O scale narrow gauge tend to accept this problem as a given.  It is simplest to not model dual gauge operations.  If one really wants dual gauge track, it is almost better to go to actual scale O 56.5 inch gauge - and that is NOT easy.  Very little is manufactured for this very specialized part of the hobby.  It has been called by a variety of names - fine scale O scale, 1/4" AAR, 1/4 inch fine scale, Proto-48 and P-48.  All essentially indicating the effort to model in 1/4 inch to the foot (North American O) scale using scaled down Association of American Railroads wheel tread, flange, and track gauge dimensions for the model wheels and track work.  It is beautiful when done - but it is not easy, and most fo the people who do this seem to enjoy doing machine work with small lathes and milling machines to rebuild commercial locomotives to have scale running gear.  And then there's the whole matter of scale wheel sets for the cars.  Not to mention hand laying the track to run them on. 

The people I know who work in O scale narrow gauge model On3 or On2, and do not have any dual gauge track work.  Several have O scale 1.25 inch gauge representing standard gauge, with the large locomotives and cars on one track, narrow gauge on another in a transfer yard.  This was actually very common - especially with 2 foot gauge interchange to standard gauge.  The one P-48 modeler I know is doing strictly standard gauge. 

So to make a long story short - I think you may be better off trying to build your own O 1.25 standard and On30 dual gauge track than waiting for a commercial supplier to come forward with such a product. 

Thanks for reading.
Charlie Mutschler
-30-

Frisco

If you don't plan on running standard gauge equitment on it then you could just handlay the track. This would let you have the standard gauge track but unless you wanted to modify the locomotives and cars you would not be able to run anything on it.

rwiseha

Thanks for the info. I will rethink my plans.

Hamish K

In a few cases 4 rail dual gauge was used, with the narrow gauge rails inside the standard gauge. I recall seeing a photo of a North American turntable like this, and think it may have also been used in a few other situations. Overseas it was used where the gauges were very close (eg. meter gauge and 3 foot 6 inch) and also where rail and wheel standards made using a common rail difficult. There are some examples in Germany where meter gauge tramway (streecar) tracks are laid inside standard gauge rail tracks. This could provide a solution to the dual gauge O rail problem although track would have to be hand laid.

Avoiding dual gauge track at interchanges was certainly common, in Victoria, Australia there were 4 interchanges between 30 inch gauge steam railways and the broad gauge (5 foot 3 inches) Victorian railways lines, one had a short stretch of dual gauge, the others only separate gauges.

Hamish

Joe Satnik

#5
Dear All,

A dual gauge turntable could not work unless its bridge had 4 rails, both gauges sharing the same centerline.

Stalls or lead-ins could be 2 rail (narrow or standard) or 4 rail (dual).   

Since most mainline dual gauge is 3 rail, there would have to be a transition to 4 or 2 rail as you neared the turntable.  

Think about what would happen if you had only three rails.  Assume that the track leading up to the turntable has the common rail on the left, and the narrow and standard rails on the right.  The bridge track is the same.  Now turn the bridge around 180 degrees.  Now the narrow gauge bridge rail would be on the left (opposite) side of where it should be to meet up with the lead-in track's (right side) narrow gauge rail.  Another thought: narrow gauge engines wouldn't have their weight centered on the bridge, which could cause problems.   

Hope this helps.

Joe Satnik

edit: added "transition" sentence, added "bridge " to first sentence, swapped left and right for clarity, added weight sentence.
If your loco is too heavy to lift, you'd better be able to ride in, on or behind it.

rwiseha

Thanks all for your info and input.  I think I will avoid trying this.
Thanks again