dcc turnout issues

[jowalmer]

New to this.  Bought my son a set for christmas and daddy has gone crazy wild with adding track, turnouts, locos, and cars. 

I have purchased 7 bachman dcc turnouts and several manual turnouts.  I have 2 problems with the dcc turnouts:

1) frequent derails at the turnouts.  It almost seems that there is not enough torque to hold the switched track in place and wheels slip between the intended direction (turn) and the straight side.  it is usually the car behind the loco that derails when approaching towards they 'y' to turn out.  It can happen at any speed.

2) frequent dead switches.  Things will be working fine, then randomly, a dcc turnout will stop reponding to the easy commander.  a quick fix is to push the stop button to let power go off for a second or two.  almost like rebooting the track.  once done, they all work again to then to stop working again.

Both issues are annoying.  Please help!

[jowalmer]

I'm running a spectrum 8-40cw dcc, a dcc from the original bachmann train set, and an athearn dcc ready running dc.  There are times when all three are running simultaneously and others when only one or two are running.  I try to keep the dc running most of the time but not always.  all three locos remain on the track at all times.

There is no specific dcc turnout that stops working; it's random.

[jowalmer]

OK, I unplugged power pack from the wall, removed the dc athearn from the track, plugged back in and ran just the 2 dcc locos.  I had no issues with dead dcc turn outs until a derail.  it was quite nice to have full control over all of the dcc turn outs.  thanks. 

Am I to understand from this that a derail can cause a quick short that affects the dcc turnouts?  If that is the case, then I'll just reboot the track after each derail.  That's not such a big deal.  The big deal is so many derails at those dcc turnouts.

Am I also to understand that dc loco affects the dcc turnouts?  If so, that is a bummer.  I'll have to get a decoder and one of those buddy commanders so I can have two controllers.  I was using the dc with a separate dc controller I got from one of the 2 train set purchases I have made since december.

How about those frequent dcc turnout derails?  Any input?

[jowalmer]

With help from this group, I was able to resolve issue 2) above but am still left with frequent derails at dcc turnouts.  Anyone had this problem or know of solutions.

I might assume that this is like anything else,  you get what you pay for.  I bought cheap cars and maybe it is the cheap trucks that are causing the derails as it is uncommon from the locos to derail.  derails are 99% of the time caused with the cars. 

Thanks.

[CNE Runner]

Regarding your derailment problem: the simplest test you can perform is to get an NMRA track gauge and check the clearances between the point rails and stock rails. In other words are all the rails in gauge? Then check the flangeways...are they wide enough - or are they binding the wheels? An NMRA gauge is absolutely vital for smooth-running trackage [Micro Mark Item #80752 @ $18.50]...it will also check wheel gauge - which is also a common fault.

If the point rails are not being held tight enough against the stock rails, AND if your turnouts are powered...there isn't a heck of a lot you can do about it. I would try the Bachmann service department. My last layout had Walthers/Shinohara turnouts and I had the same problem...frustrating to say the least. My turnouts were manual; so I installed Caboose Industries sprung ground throws. These items worked very well and solved my tension problem (there were many other problems with the Walthers turnouts - forcing me to tear the layout up and use all Peco products...which are really SPRUNG).

I've heard good things about the Bachmann E-Z track/turnouts - so you might have gotten a couple of bad apples. I have found Bachmann to be a supplier that stands behind their products; so give them a try.

Ray

[jowalmer]

Thanks Ray.

[Yampa Bob]

Hi Jo
Might as well get my dollar in.  There is a simple way to find problems in turnouts by using a "test" truck.  If you have an extra truck, or take one off a car, be sure it has metal wheels that roll easily.

Put an index finger on top of the truck, right in the middle at the mounting hole, then push it through your turnout.  Run it back and forth with varying degrees of down pressure and speed. You can even do this with your eyes closed. (trust me I know due to really lousy vision)

Twist or rock your finger as if to try to "pick the points", feel the drop and rebound as the wheels go through the flangeway.  Even the best of cars, if not properly weighted, balanced and adjusted, can derail at the flangeway, or climb the point.

Real railroads solved most derailment and wheel wear problems by sharpening and extending the frog point deep into the "V" of the wing rails, thus reducing the length of the "no rail" area of the flangeway.  There is an excellent picture of this at the NMRA site.

http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/consist.html
(scroll down to recommended practices)

I call it simply the "drop zone".  On a good turnout, you will barely feel the drop, if any, and you won't hear any "clicks" or "bangs".

Some time ago, I did a lot of research on railcar dynamics, especially the kinematics of the wheels, rails, curves, oscillations (hunting), and lateral forces. All forces found in real railcars are present in our models, just much smaller scale and harder to detect and measure.

Good luck 

[jowalmer]

Thanks.  Sounds like a great way to find out what is actually happening.  I'll get to work on it...

[Yampa Bob]

You might say it's a way of "putting your finger on the problem".  My wife has a very acute sense of "touch".  When we got the track all laid, she ran her fingers over every joint and turnout and found all the problem areas.

Yesterday she ran her fingers over the tracks and informed me the rails were dirty. She's the CEO, I'm just the MOW foreman. Whenever she finds a problem her usual remark is "Fitzit"  (fix it).   

[jowalmer]

Well I did a dirty test.  Dirty meaning I actually just took a car without removing the trucks and ran it back and forth over the i-don't-know-what-you-call-it.  (flangeway??)  the part of the turnout that switches over and makes the train move the new direction of the turnout.  the wheels slipped between the I-don't-know-what-you-call-it and the main line.  I then took a closer look at the wheels.  The wheels must be plastic as one of them was pitted from when it slipped between the main line and the...well...the other moving part of the turnout (flangeway??).  I then tested the strength of the...well...the other moving part of the turnout and there isn't a whole lotta of force holding that moving part to the main line.  Hence the wheels slipping between and the derails.

there is mainly 2 turnouts that are problematic but then again, I haven't run the train in the opposite direction to see if other turnouts do the same.  So it is either a bad turnout or two, or just cheap wheels from the cheap cars I bought.  If it is the latter, that's a bummer, cause I cleaned the hobby store out of their cheap cars and now have lots of cheap cars.  I think they were $4.95 each.  I couldn't see spending an additional $10 for the upgraded cars.  Well, maybe I can see the value now.  Anyway, I'm blabbing.